Greece? Wow. Good choice. Could get a lot for your Euros there
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Technical multiwagon rear bushes
- Thread starter roy lovelock
- Start date
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Technical multiwagon rear bushes
well i done the job again yesterday, i had two brand new bushes arrive and fitted those, but i done them whilst the axle was on the car.
last time i gave up with the press idea and ground down the outside diameter, this made changing them a breeze!!, one hard whack with a 2lbs hammer and the bleeders flew out.
the last lot of bushes were fitted with the notch pointed in the down direction (my markings were still on the axle from before i removed them). i took the advise of the markings and fitted them inline with the driving direction, i also ground the bush down and applied libral amount of grease to the outside of the bush, they went home lovely and only needed a slight tap to get them in postion.
when on the car only do one side at a time, and make sure you dont let the beam move too much, i removed the wheel on the side i was working on first , loosened the bush centre bolts, then unbolted both the shocks and then put the trolley jack under the side being worked on, unbolted the shock mounting and lowered it clear on the jack.
ten mins later new bush - 30 mins later job done.....
im gona order a few more bushes now and have them lathed down at work so they are ready to go.
total time to do both bushes again without removing the axle was just under 2hrs on my own....
taking the time to ground off the bushes can save you tonnes of time this time and the next time round.
ive done approx 70miles on the new bushes and they are fine, my steering is dead straight again without the twitching that i had got used to in the last few weeks... most of all its silent!!.
thanks guys
roy
last time i gave up with the press idea and ground down the outside diameter, this made changing them a breeze!!, one hard whack with a 2lbs hammer and the bleeders flew out.
the last lot of bushes were fitted with the notch pointed in the down direction (my markings were still on the axle from before i removed them). i took the advise of the markings and fitted them inline with the driving direction, i also ground the bush down and applied libral amount of grease to the outside of the bush, they went home lovely and only needed a slight tap to get them in postion.
when on the car only do one side at a time, and make sure you dont let the beam move too much, i removed the wheel on the side i was working on first , loosened the bush centre bolts, then unbolted both the shocks and then put the trolley jack under the side being worked on, unbolted the shock mounting and lowered it clear on the jack.
ten mins later new bush - 30 mins later job done.....
im gona order a few more bushes now and have them lathed down at work so they are ready to go.
total time to do both bushes again without removing the axle was just under 2hrs on my own....
taking the time to ground off the bushes can save you tonnes of time this time and the next time round.
ive done approx 70miles on the new bushes and they are fine, my steering is dead straight again without the twitching that i had got used to in the last few weeks... most of all its silent!!.
thanks guys
roy
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excellant work roy. i need to do my bushes again as when we fitted them last time we didnt take the directional arrow into account and i think they are knackered
That's great that you've done the job and proved that it can be done in situ as well. I know you've had bushes in and out of there so often they should fly in but I'm sure the key, as you've found, is having the bushes at a sensible outside diameter in the first place
Paulf was saying that the replacement bushes were some 0.1- 0.2 mm larger diameter than the originals and that is a ridiculous interference fit. So what they're fitting in the factory aren't the same as the dimensions of the ones you buy to replace them
I wonder what the best fit accurate diameter actually might be? I'm thinking maybe 67.02mm or 67.03mm max if the arm itself is 67.00mm int dia exactly throughout it's length as Paulf stated. If people know what figure to go for then they can pre machine the bushes and won't need such heavy dockyard gear to install them.
Who knows, perhaps they even machine them to fit at Fiat. That would explain a lot as there's no way the tool shown in Davren's post above for the Bravo would be strong enough to overcome the appalling interference fit
Paulf was saying that the replacement bushes were some 0.1- 0.2 mm larger diameter than the originals and that is a ridiculous interference fit. So what they're fitting in the factory aren't the same as the dimensions of the ones you buy to replace them
I wonder what the best fit accurate diameter actually might be? I'm thinking maybe 67.02mm or 67.03mm max if the arm itself is 67.00mm int dia exactly throughout it's length as Paulf stated. If people know what figure to go for then they can pre machine the bushes and won't need such heavy dockyard gear to install them.
Who knows, perhaps they even machine them to fit at Fiat. That would explain a lot as there's no way the tool shown in Davren's post above for the Bravo would be strong enough to overcome the appalling interference fit
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@Decks...... I edited my post #76 above. I had the wrong eLearn CD in the drive. It was for a Grande Punto, not a Bravo. The Bravo uses the same bushes but the fitting tool is different.
Random question, with car in the air how long should it take to do this job?
hmmm, if the bushes havent been out before, then you still need to get the axle off to remove the old bushes, if you have the proper tool then i would say only a couple of hrs tops as the axle can be worked on on the car, but without it you need to get it off the car to get the bushes out, it took me about 45mins per side to get the bushes out of my wifes car (first bush replacement so had the silly over sized bushes), about an hour to get the axle off the car (on my own) - with the bushes ground down to a reasonable size then only a couple of mins to put them in, with out this bloomming ages unless you have the proper tool.....
on your own its a bit of a pain job as that axle is so heavy, but not impossible..
ive been thinking about the rear assembly on the car, the stilo mutliwagon isnt the most firm ride on the rear, i was thinking that if the rear susension was tightened up, ie better shocks and some eibach springs to stiffen the rear end up - less movement on the rear axle maybe = longer lasting rear bushes??. I know they are are a silent block but the do sustain a lot of movement on the rear assembly and that is what is knocking them out, it seems that most people have them fail on the drivers side as well (so far the three that have failed on us have always been drivers side), now we have mega amounts of roundabouts, potholes etc in this country, i would have thought it would have worn them quicker on the near side but thats not the case so its the fat drivers killing the bushes.
so either stiffen the suspension up
or go on a diet......
what do you think - am i onto something there, has anyone done this to thier multiwagons??
roy
Just done mine with press. I placed a 65mm socket under one end of the hole in the beam and a heavy steel bush ( you should have some of these with the press) on top of the new bushes, and pressed them straight in.
When you remove the beam disconnect calipers, you will see that the brake pipes run through small steel hoops on the beam itself, just cut a small hole in the hoops and lift pipes clear of beam.( saves bleeding brakes after).
When you remove the beam disconnect calipers, you will see that the brake pipes run through small steel hoops on the beam itself, just cut a small hole in the hoops and lift pipes clear of beam.( saves bleeding brakes after).
here we go again.... not on my car my friends 1.8 mw.
anyways ive decided to approach this in another direction, after a hunt though my tools i decided the best tool for the job would be my bore honer
http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/Glaze-Breaker-Triple-Leg-50-175mm-75mm-Medium-Stones-Sealey-VS162
i ordered some corse stones for the thing, and now armed with my vernier calipers im going to see if i can put this job to bed for once and for all on his car.
i will let you know how it goes later (if he gets here soon).
roy
anyways ive decided to approach this in another direction, after a hunt though my tools i decided the best tool for the job would be my bore honer
http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/Glaze-Breaker-Triple-Leg-50-175mm-75mm-Medium-Stones-Sealey-VS162
i ordered some corse stones for the thing, and now armed with my vernier calipers im going to see if i can put this job to bed for once and for all on his car.
i will let you know how it goes later (if he gets here soon).
roy
well scrub that last post, it could work if the stones were as course as an angle grinder.
i done the job within 3 hrs this time on his car, no mucking around just dropped one side at a time, it was a pig getting the old bushes out on the floor but a hacksaw and club hammer sorted it very quickly.
as the bushes hadnt been out on this car before, i removed one bush then put the beam back in place (without any bush present), lowered the other side and knocked that bush out. the reason for this was to stop damaging any new bushes with the assult of bashing it takes to remove the old ones
i used the grinder again on the outside of the bushes and went a bit overboard this time, i could nearly push them though by hand lol.
the car went back together nicely and is lovely and quiet again, all that was removed was 1 shock at a time and the front mounts, we left the brakes all in place, it just takes some jiggy pokerey with axel stands and trolley jacks.
my friend did say its been like this for a few years now, both bushes had gone (car is at 120k) - he never failed an mot with them either - but the noise is unbearable... and he was eating tires on the back. he has also owned from new so this was the first time the job was done - not bad at 120k... i personally couldnt live with the noise for more than a few hours let alone weeks or years...
roy
i done the job within 3 hrs this time on his car, no mucking around just dropped one side at a time, it was a pig getting the old bushes out on the floor but a hacksaw and club hammer sorted it very quickly.
as the bushes hadnt been out on this car before, i removed one bush then put the beam back in place (without any bush present), lowered the other side and knocked that bush out. the reason for this was to stop damaging any new bushes with the assult of bashing it takes to remove the old ones
i used the grinder again on the outside of the bushes and went a bit overboard this time, i could nearly push them though by hand lol.
the car went back together nicely and is lovely and quiet again, all that was removed was 1 shock at a time and the front mounts, we left the brakes all in place, it just takes some jiggy pokerey with axel stands and trolley jacks.
my friend did say its been like this for a few years now, both bushes had gone (car is at 120k) - he never failed an mot with them either - but the noise is unbearable... and he was eating tires on the back. he has also owned from new so this was the first time the job was done - not bad at 120k... i personally couldnt live with the noise for more than a few hours let alone weeks or years...
roy
Mick Anic
New member
Hello, did you get the info you needed to make a puller, please say yes! only cos I'm really impatient and have my stilo in pieces on the floor!!! I am a mechanic and measuring the bushes etc is no prob(using digi caliper), got my bushes from shop4parts, they look solid, and a quick! measure says same size as the hole!(watch this space!), post back, pretty please! ta.Hi,
i have access to a full machine shop and i,m willing to make a bespoke puller etc for the job,the boss won't mind coz thats me
It is a job that sooner or later i will have to do on my MW as it has 110k on the clock.
So if anyone is willing to measure the bush diameter, the length and i take the rest of the sizes off my MW.
it might be a possiblity that if it is really slick you might nearly be able to do it situ ie just drop it off the bushes to be replaced.
I am guessing that it would have to be hydraulic which in itself wouyld be no problem as you could use an ""enerpac" ram and pump.
It could then be passed round to whoever is doing the job next, what do people think to that?
i,m all for helping folk out , like so many others on here.
I guess i could machine the bushes as well if we could decide on the actual interference fit. I,m guessing that if the bush is around 75mm diameter that .05mm would be more than enough.
So guys i will look forward to your thoughts and ideas
Cheers for now
Kev W
using my vernier calipers the bushes are actually 0.20mm bigger than the diameter of the axel - a totally over the top fit, just take an angle grinder to the outside of the bush (keeping it cool by dipping it in water every now and then)and put them in that way, my wifes car was done over a year ago with that method and have had no adverse affects on the car. it will save you hours of cursing and probo a few wrecked bushes.
the last time i done the bushes i actually went smaller than the axel and could push them in by hand lol, i used pleanty of copper slip on the outside of the bush and put them in place (to stop any knocking as it was undersised). this worked a treat and will make future changes a breeze done in situ on the car.
roy
the last time i done the bushes i actually went smaller than the axel and could push them in by hand lol, i used pleanty of copper slip on the outside of the bush and put them in place (to stop any knocking as it was undersised). this worked a treat and will make future changes a breeze done in situ on the car.
roy
I am a mechanic and measuring the bushes etc is no prob(using digi caliper), got my bushes from shop4parts, they look solid, and a quick! measure says same size as the hole!
Perhaps they're producing them at the correct size now. That would be nice
Take some photos and post them up as this has turned from a dealer only or dockside equipment job to something more do able
Perhaps they're producing them at the correct size now. That would be nice
Take some photos and post them up as this has turned from a dealer only or dockside equipment job to something more do able
Hi,
No i didnt !
Can you send me the following sizes please
inner and outer dia of the subframe where bushes go.
the length of the housing where the bushes go.
All the sizes off the bush ie outer dia length any photos of the subframe too !! as well as the hole up the middle of the bush.
a couple of pictures of the bushes as well would help.
And any other info you feel would help.
i do have a stilo mw myself can use that for reference although it looks as though its quite difficult to measure when its all bolted up.
if you pm me i will send you my email adress, i dont want to put it on here (keeps the spam down)
Cheers for now
Kev W
Kev W
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Mick Anic
New member
Hello Kev W, I will get the spec you need tomorrow, I have been clearing the decks today and I'm half finished making the puller as shown in another post but with the adittion of an old wheel bearing(always keep a couple for drifting etc). I will grind down the bearing to form 3 prongs which will push on the bush casing and not the bushing itself(told you I'm inpatient!), sorry I don't know what a pm is or how to do it? M A
Mick Anic
New member
Forgot to say, I put the bushes in the freezer till the a.m., fingers crossed, laptop battery about to go.......... talk soon, M A
Mick Anic
New member
Anyone there???...................... has anyone read the haynes manual for this job, is it shown? etc. :idea: M A
There is no Haynes manual for the Stilo and when the Stilo eLEARN CD manual was published, the bushes were not available seperately.
Mick Anic
New member
Good moaning(not a spelling mistake), Hello all, does anyone know if this crazy axle set up has changed on the later models, love the MW, beginning to loath the rear end! If you look at the angle of the bushes when renewed they are already under a stupid amount of twist!!(deep breaths!) Oh well! onwards & upwards, fitting 1 today! hope we all have a good day, M A.
Mick Anic
New member
Any 1 know where to get a bolt set(not dealer) for the bush re-fit, tried e-bay? net etc. any help much appreciated, M A.
