Technical multiwagon rear bushes

[Muppet1]

Mmmmmm i think its time to get rid of the Mw, trouble is i have left it too late as its due a mot on the 22nd may.
I know for sure it needs front disc's and pads which i will sort, The flexie pipe has a slight blow so will have that checked and the n/s outter hand brake cable is broken, Two adviseries i had last year.

Just wondering if they will pick up on these bushes as the back axle does bang and clunk at times, Hmmm in fact think i will phone garage and change it to a pre mot and see what happens.

Does any one know if you have a mot say a week early and it fails does that mean the last week that you had left is void??

 

[roy lovelock]

there are no mot prohibitiion like there were in the old days, you can put your car in 30 days early for mot and if it does fail you can still drive it until the previous mot fails. but.... if your car has failed on brakes / tires etc and your involved in an accident that "could" have been caused by the fault on your car im not to sure where you stand...
the items you have said are wrong with the car dont sound to drastic tbh, i had advisorys on my old 5dr every year, most cases i done nothing to the car and it passed the following year with no advisorys or work done.
the rear bushes i cant see being a mot failure unless there is excess movement on the rear axel beam, the way the bushes are mounted i find that movement will be virtually impossible to detect. they may on the other hand hear the clunk when they drive the car onto the ramp which may point them in that direction. clean any oil off the bushes mounting (if it hasnt already vanishes) and cover the area of the bush with grease, if they ask just say fiat dealer done it as the rear suspension was creeking......
front disks and pads are a doddle, the flex pipe is also a doddle, you just need someone else to help you bleed the system (unless you have one of those one man jobbys).
handbrake cable, are you sure its broken?, and not just in need of adjustment, the cable is easily adjusted under the centre consule, take out the ash tray in the back, there are two screws, remove them, then push both front seats forward and then this will show two more screws on the sides, remove them and then pull the vent (this will pop off), the cover will fall away and then you willl have access to the adjustment mechannism. i think it either a 10 or 13mm.
even if you need a new one it wont be too difficault job to fit you will just need the car up high to get access.
put the car in for mot and see what gets flagged up, if its only the simple jobs happy days...
roy

edit, just noticed you said you had an advisory on the hadbrake cable last year, i bet this is a bend in the cable housing, if it is it wont fail, the only time they can fail it is if the actual cable is broken, if its working correctly then its a pass, they were just drawing attention that it may have a kink in the outer housing, tell me a stilo that dosent have this..... all three stilos that ive owned have had the same issue and its never failed, i wouldnt worry about it until it does actually break which it probo wont.

 

[Deckchair5]

Looks like this hydraulic tool from Klann tools is designed specifically for the Stilo rear bushes and looks powerful enough

They seem to have a branch in UK too
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]KLANN Tools Limited[/FONT] Marton Street BD23 1TF
Skipton, North Yorkshire
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel.: +44 (0) 1756-706700

http://www.klann-online.de/Englisch/

Even some "how to do it" videos. Seemed to take around 10mins

 

[roy lovelock]

Looks like this hydraulic tool from Klann tools is designed specifically for the Stilo rear bushes and looks powerful enough
View attachment 77327
They seem to have a branch in UK too
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]KLANN Tools Limited[/FONT] Marton Street BD23 1TF
Skipton, North Yorkshire
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel.: +44 (0) 1756-706700

http://www.klann-online.de/Englisch/

Even some "how to do it" videos. Seemed to take around 10mins

WICKED find decks!!, im gona give them a ring tomorrow, even if the tool is a couple of hundred squids in my case owning 2 mws it would be a good investment. being able to do the bushes whilst the axel is still on the car is a blooming cracking idea!!. im gona find out how much this cost and let ya know.
i could suffer 1hr in total to do this job, infact i would probally change them as a matter of course if it was that easy.
roy

 

[spyshagg]

What kind of sound it makes with bad bushes?

Only a single "tuc" when passing deep holes?

Or more like a fast succession of Tuc's (tuctuctuc) in any kind of uneven surface?

I was told the abarth rear stabilizer bar also failed and makes a similar noise to my last description above. Where is this stabilizer bar?

 

[roy lovelock]

how to describe, a bit like a metalic banging first of all when going round corners and roundabouts, the side thats off load and has a bad bush will start banging, eventually they get louder and eventually when you hit and bumps in the roads. this only goes really for the multiwagon.
the oil on the bush housing is also evident, and the car seems less stable at higher speeds, it feels like the rear wants to overtake. you may also notice abnormal wear on the rear tires, mine have worn on the outside where the bush had failed, luckly not to badly as it only failed about a week ago.
when you first put the car back together this happened on both of the cars, the first time you go over a bump you get a very loud thud and a bong sort of noise, this is just the axel / springs settling back into place, it dosent happen again after.
roy

 

[spyshagg]

I'm searching for the source of quick multiple banging in bumpy roads ( not just deep holes )

The noise is kind of hidden. If I wear ear plugs that hide high frequency sounds, I can really really hear the banging in bumpy roads.


I was told the rear stabilizer bar makes the same sound (quick banging) from other abarth owners. But I can't find any bar... My bushes are not well though. Neither is my front right suspension. It squeeks with heavy load.

 

[keviwal]

WICKED find decks!!, im gona give them a ring tomorrow, even if the tool is a couple of hundred squids in my case owning 2 mws it would be a good investment. being able to do the bushes whilst the axel is still on the car is a blooming cracking idea!!. im gona find out how much this cost and let ya know.
i could suffer 1hr in total to do this job, infact i would probally change them as a matter of course if it was that easy.
roy

telll you what roy if you could measure it then i could copy it then send it back
Just a thought

ok i will scurry away now

Kev Walker

 

[Deckchair5]

Well as most specialist tools like this are
"Think of an extortionate price" and then x 3
then if you can produce a similar/better tool then you would be very much in the market

 

[keviwal]

Deck,
I would be more than happy to make them (at cost). All i would need is a bit of help on the design front.
By trade i am a precision engineer for my sins and i have a complete range of cnc and manual machines at my disposal.
sure i can scheme something up , ideally what i could do with is a gash subframe and bush, but i,m sure there are not to many of them lying around!!
I guess what i am trying to say is i don't want to rip my multiwagon apart (although i will have to at some stage) just to make sure it all works.
When i do get to that i want the kit there ready to do it.

Kind regards

Kev Walker

 

[roy lovelock]

now im ultra peed off, if i could swear on here i would!!!
just drove the car home from work, the same noise started again, got home, oil all over the blooming rear axel on one of the bushes, ive had enough it looks like ive got a dodgy bush what a poxy joke.
has anyone seen a poly bush that would fit the axel, im not putting another rubbish bush in that car my lifes to short to keep removing axels. Im not worried if it stiffens up the rear, christ i would be more than happy if it saved me doing this again.
cheers
roy

 

[yellowstilo]

it's important the new bushes are pushed in with the proper tool (plate with 3 pins which engage in the 3 openings of the sideplate of the bush) - that way the pressing force is put on the outer part of the bush instead of the sideplate/inner part of the bush.
It's also very important to tighten the bolts trough the bushes with the axle loaded with the vehicle weight without any extra load - that way the rubber inside the bush will be deformed equally when the axle moves upward and downward.
If you tighten the bolts with the axle downward the rubber inside the bush will be too deformed onder load as it can only rotate to some degree without damage.

 

[Deckchair5]

Wow, what an absolute nightmare. My sympathies Roy

I would also think the torque of the bush centre bolt to be critical as I believe that acts as a fulcrum and needs to move otherwise the bush gets all the turning force

 

[PNL]

Also the discussion of whether rubber or polly bushes has been done elsewhere and I dont believe they would be suitable for this application ie.. the rear axle of a stilo ..

 

[yellowstilo]

Wow, what an absolute nightmare. My sympathies Roy

I would also think the torque of the bush centre bolt to be critical as I believe that acts as a fulcrum and needs to move otherwise the bush gets all the turning force

afaik the bush DOES take all the turning force - the bush doesn't pivot around the bolt - the inner tube of the bush is clamped between the side walls of the mounting plate and the rubber walls and glycol fluid inside the bushes take the turning- and sideward forces and provide the damping of noises.
That's why it is important to torque the bolt in the right position (axle loaded with car weight without extra load or wheel jacked up to the proper height (measure opening between tire and wheel arch before starting this job...)
When you torque the bolt with the axle in it's lowest position the rubber walls are stretched beyond their limits as Roy just experienced....

 

[roy lovelock]

afaik the bush DOES take all the turning force - the bush doesn't pivot around the bolt - the inner tube of the bush is clamped between the side walls of the mounting plate and the rubber walls and glycol fluid inside the bushes take the turning- and sideward forces and provide the damping of noises.
That's why it is important to torque the bolt in the right position (axle loaded with car weight without extra load or wheel jacked up to the proper height (measure opening between tire and wheel arch before starting this job...)
When you torque the bolt with the axle in it's lowest position the rubber walls are stretched beyond their limits as Roy just experienced....

nope all tourqued correctly, the car was on axel stands when i put the beam back on, and i used trolley jacks to lift the axel to it correct ride hight, as soon as the axel was lifting the car off the axel stands i tighted the bolts (thus at the correct ride hight). ive already done this job before on my wifes car and it went fine the bushes have been in there for over a year now with no problems.
Also the bushes would be able to take a certian amount of twisting even if they were not in correctly, i know these bushes were 100% home and in the correct postion, if it had failed say in a couple of months time i would have said yep they were in the in correct ride hight, not less than 100mile.
Im 99.9% sure this is just a dud bush - it happens.
i had ground of the outside of the bush and no extreme pressure was exerted to the bush.
Im royally peed with this tbh and feel.......
Im gona try to just pull the front mounts off and see if i can insert a new ground down bush whilst the axel is still on the car, otherwise the thing can stay as it is and i will just turn the blooming stereo up.

 

[yellowstilo]

What tool did you use to press the bushes in?

 

[roy lovelock]

i didnt, i ground them off
roy

 

[yellowstilo]

in that case i assume you pressed the bushes in pushing on the sideplate instead of trough the three openings of the side plate?
I made a simple pressing tool from some metal pieces i had lying around...

 

[roy lovelock]

i took that plate off from experiance its not a good idea to push that part, i ground it down then it went in nearly the whole way, then i used a plate i had drilled to push it in the whole way, the tool there would to the job if you can hold the mounting as the bottom part of the push pushes though by about 20mm.
im ordering some new bushes from shop for parts as i am sure they are bad, im also waiting for a call back from klann for the proper tool, if it comes in at under £500 i will be getting one.
roy