Technical Multijet - loss of power after cold start

[Trimdoner]

At least I'm not the only one to get the 'It's not showing any codes Guv, so there's nothing we can do' response from dealer.
My MJ had the same problems regularly from new to 24K (last dealer service), when I removed every sensor plug to clean, WD40 and refit, and cleaned the MAF sensor. Not one problem since, and now at 37K and mpg has improved from a dismal 50mpg to about 58 overall. It's had nothing replaced, BTW, just normal service items.

I still find the economy extremely disappointing for a small high-tech diesel in a small car. Many of my friends with larger more powerful cars do as good or better than mine.

 

[Percypanda]

What year's your MJ trimdoner?

My previous MJ (06) did 30k miles before it got this problem, luckily it showed up on the computer and they replaced the exhaust sensor, and it had no problems at all after that.

This 58 plate MJ hasn't done 6k yet and had the problem from new.

I'm wondering whether to buy the exhaust sensor and ask Fiat to fit it, because it did the trick on the previous 06 MJ. On the other hand if it's gonna be expensive to buy and get fitted, I might wait and see if Fiat agree to do it under warranty.

Failing that, if its not sorted pronto I'll trade the MJ in for something else Fiat.

My 06 MJ was much better for mpg, I got around 65-69mpg and even managed 73mpg once. The 58 is only doing 55mpg at the moment, but it's not run in properly yet.

Update on problem is Fiat's 'expert' who was gonna ring me within 48hrs still hasn't phoned and it's 4 days now. They must have more hours in a day in Milan LOL

 

[Trimdoner]

Our MJ's April 2007.

We had intermittent stalling/rough running from the first week, which progressively got worse until it would stall several times a week, and totally refuse to start if it rained
Regarding the mpg, I have a relative with two 07 MJs with similar rural use to ours who always achieves 65-70 according to the trip computer, and a friend with a Corsa (same engine) who manages low 60's. The last two tankfuls I've used over this icy cold weather averaged 46 mpg. Still no error codes showing....
I've just accepted the idea that mines a dud.

 

[Derv drinker]

I have also had this problem with the same response from the dealers. But 2 days before Christmas my glowplugs failed so I rang my local Fiat dealer from whom I bought the car and was informed that they had to order in these plugs!! Being required to work the other side of the country on Christmas day evening I had no choice thut change them myself, my local Motor factors - Kimber friction had them in stock. One thing I did notice and something may be is being missed when removing the MAF sensor is that when I removed the airbox there was a considerable amount of water in the front part next to the sensor housing - a bit worrying really as this is post filter side, and yse it has been fully serviced by main dealer. So how this water gets there I don't know.
I dried it out and it runs a lot better now and economy has crept back up to it's usual 58 - 62 mpg. This is easily checked just by removing the sensor ( two bolts ) and putting your finger into the airbox far enought to clear the seal recess and into the low point or place a strip of kitchen roll in and see if it gets wet.

 

[rgmacca]

Hi
My wifes 1.3MJ, has had similar probs to above.
Loss of power after a few mins driving, wont rev over 10k, then recovers to drive ok.

Has a feel of been slow to react to gas pedal, then comes on, all most like old turbo lag.

After reading above, it looks like.

Maf
Water in electrics
EGR Valve


Couple of questions
Can dealer diagnoise problem and fix it, or is it typical go through a stack of things first before luck on right one.

How difficult to Change ERG valve, time, part cost.

Thanks for any advice.
Cheers.

 

[Percypanda]

My dealer wont go through anything, all they do is wire it up to the diagnostic computer to see if there's any error codes, which there won't be usually, and then tell you there's no error code so they can't do anything about it. They don't even attempt to use a bit of savvy and check the obvious things.

I assume by reading some of the posts in this thread most dealers are the same. Unless there's an error code they won't touch it as Fiat won't authorise anything without a code.

So you're in a catch 22 situation.

I wouldnt mind if they did some investigations but they're just not interested.

 

[Trimdoner]

My dealer wont go through anything, all they do is wire it up to the diagnostic computer to see if there's any error codes, which there won't be usually, and then tell you there's no error code so they can't do anything about it. They don't even attempt to use a bit of savvy and check the obvious things.

I assume by reading some of the posts in this thread most dealers are the same. Unless there's an error code they won't touch it as Fiat won't authorise anything without a code.

So you're in a catch 22 situation.

I wouldnt mind if they did some investigations but they're just not interested.

Yes, I'll second all of that. Stalling/Non Starting/Dismal MPG/etc. etc. with no error codes = no action by dealers
No faith in Fiat dealers, so even though the MJ is/could/should be an excellent car, I won't chance another one......

-

 

[pulhamdown]

Hi
My wifes 1.3MJ, has had similar probs to above.
Loss of power after a few mins driving, wont rev over 10k, then recovers to drive ok.

Has a feel of been slow to react to gas pedal, then comes on, all most like old turbo lag.

After reading above, it looks like.

Maf
Water in electrics
EGR Valve


Couple of questions
Can dealer diagnoise problem and fix it, or is it typical go through a stack of things first before luck on right one.

How difficult to Change ERG valve, time, part cost.

Thanks for any advice.
Cheers.

Those were the exact same symptons that my wife`s car had. I cured it immediately by an application of WD40 on the plugs of the ECU. It sits vertically between the engine and the battery, and you have to raise the yellow "handles" in order to remove the plugs from the ECU. Give both parts of both plugs a good dose of WD40, and that should cure your problem

 

[ivantate]

I havent had too many problems yet although the car is definately less happy in the cold weather, both starting and economy. I will be checking for water in the inlet, stripping the EGR, Cleaning the MAF and lubing the turbo linkage in a proactive effort to keep the car going. Suppose we are lucky the Panda doesnt have a DPF fitted too!

Looks like we might all have to chip in and get a 'good' batch of sensors to post around to problem cars! I much prefer to miss the dealer out of the loop as most tend to charge for work that only might fix the problem much the same way as they treat the warranty claims but straight out of the customers pocket. Maybe acceptable from a independent who is cheaper,less skilled,less experienced etc.... but not from and approved dealer.
Obviously the more people that do this, the less experience the dealer gets and the less they can help! Not sure what kind of training the technicians get but there should be atleast a 2-3day course on the 1.3MJ alone.

Although the dealers are looking for error codes make sure they are checking for other parameters on the engine. The computer should be able to read these and they have to be looking at these when the car is behaving strangely. I dont know how good the controller is in terms of error checking, e.g if the MAF is giving an in limits signal for the air flow but it is incorrect for the engine speed, does it flag an error? or is it only checked for short or open circuit.
The engine has full control of the fuelling electronically, it knows the requested engine speed, fuel rail pressure and the injector timing etc.... so the problem can be found using the correct diagnostic tool.

Maybe the dealer cannot do this due to not having the equipment, somewhere within Fiat there will be people who can travel out to your car and sort it out. It will be getting hold of them that is the problem.
If Fiat UK dont have anyone doing this, I have a CV I can send them. Although I am in the engineering team at work I spend quite alot of time providing this kind of service for our customers worldwide due to there being a general fear of electronics in the dealer network.

 

[ivantate]

On the subject of starting, I went to see a 125000mile Doblo today fitted with the 70bhp 1.3MJ engine. Hadnt been started since before christmas but fired up on the first turn of the key, not the hint of a missfire or any smoke.
Maybe these engines really do enjoy some hard work.

 

[hairyjim]

My 2004 Multijet also has been cutting out just after setting off, usually after heavy rain. Usually after a minute it starts again, runs a little lumpy for a few minutes, then is fine again, but today it died and stayed dead for 20 minutes. I needed to be at a family meeting, so I drove 20km there, and 3 hours later 20km back before having chance to have a look at it, which I thought would have given time for any water to have evaporated. Apparently not, or there must have been a lot of water to begin with!
I thought I'd post a few pictures of my progress.

Pic 1:
Removed 3 screws from top of air filter housing

Pic 2:
Not a good start - thin strip of rubber at bottom of filter is wet (this is the 'out' side of the filter)

Pic 3:
Remove the 2 bolts on the MAF (pictured)

Pic 4:
More bad news - The view of the connection between the MAF and the air filter. I'm sure this bit should be dry...

Pic 5:
Remove the jubilee-type clip to disconnect the MAF

Pic 6:
Pipe on the other side of the MAF. Yes, it's wet in here too, and doesn't that bit go straight to the engine?

Pic 7:
The MAF itself - glistening nicely at the bottom where it's wet.

I think I'll have a trip to my local garage (really good, friendly small family business!) and see what he reckons as to solutions, but I'd also like to hear if any more knowledgeable people think that this would be responsible for the cutting out?

While I was busy, I had a look at the ECU connectors which some people have had bother with. When I (finally) got the connectors off, they were dry, but I thought I'd take a few step-by-step pictures to save other hopeless amateurs such as myself a few minutes.

 

[ivantate]

I am trying to work out how the water is getting in, its unlikely it is sucking it in and the water would clog the filter rather than settle in the pipe.

do you think it might be condensation on the inside of the airbox as the engine heats and cools?

 

[hairyjim]

I am trying to work out how the water is getting in, its unlikely it is sucking it in and the water would clog the filter rather than settle in the pipe.

do you think it might be condensation on the inside of the airbox as the engine heats and cools?

I wouldn't say it was condensation, due to it only being bad after rain - but I agree that it's unlikely to be sucking it in. My money's on one (or more) of the seals leaking.

I think it might be either the seal on the top of the air filter cover (it was wet on the rubber inside, but after the filter), or maybe the MAF-air filter housing connection.

Last week I had the turbo pressure sensor replaced, which involved the whole air filter housing being removed, and I wonder if one of the seals was incorrectly aligned when it was replaced, letting the water in?

Does anyone know what, if any, damage a bit of water in the engine would do? Or would it just make it a pain to start?

 

[Percypanda]

I'd imagine it would be the same to some extent as if you put petrol in a diesel car.

When mine was last in for the same problem they asked if I'd put petrol in the car by mistake. Which of course I hadn't. But if water is getting into the engine via the airbox, then I'm guessing that would have the same effect as petrol being put in by mistake. Although I'm about as techy as a goldfish, so I'm only guessing.

Mine starts perfectly, just dies a few minutes after.

 

[Percypanda]

Update on this problem (for my car).

Took it into Vospers at Truro, Cornwall last week to fit the modified airbox/gasket.

It was already fitted at the factory so didnt have to have it done, and the airbox was dry as a bone inside.

They disconnected and greased all connections, reconnected. Then found that the car was running on an old version of the ECU software, which they updated.

I have to say the software update seems to have cured the following problems

1. Car disappears in a cloud of blue exhaust smoke when started up.
2. Loss of power.
3. Bad mpg
4. Engine sounds like tractor when running
5. Poor accelleration
6. Steering goes.

As for the main fault of loss of power and crawling along at 5mph with the eventual loss of steering, so far this hasn't manifested itself again, although it's early days, the fault was intermittent and the car could go for weeks or even months before it happens again, touch wood so far so good on this one.

If it does happen again I'll repost here.

So I 'think' the new software update seems to have done the trick, it certainly runs and feels 100% better.

As for mpg, it is slightly better, but still only getting on average, 55mpg (7,400 miles), when some are getting 59mpg on far less mileage, hopefully this will improve on mine as the engine runs in more as some are a lot tighter than others for some reason and take longer to run in.

So with Panda's with the new airbox fitted and still experiencing the loss of power fault with no error codes, it could just be that the ECU software wants updating.

Hopefully this info might help some of you with newer MJs

 

[bobbyg]

just a quick message for trimdoner,cheers mate for the wd40 trick.my 56 multijet was going into get you home mode after driving a few hundred yards down the road then picking up gradually untill full power after a couple of mins then ok for a few days untill it done it again,all leads off and spayed first with cleaner then wd40 plus cleaner on maf sensor,not a problem since,,,,,,,,touch wood

 

[T14086]

'hairyjim'...your nearest dealer can fit a new redesigned filter and gasket to stop your problem.

 

[Trimdoner]

just a quick message for trimdoner,cheers mate for the wd40 trick.....not a problem since,,,,,,,,touch wood

I'm glad it's sorted your problem - mine's been more than a year now since any problems: planks of wood firmly attached to both arms to facilitate touching

 

[TJ07]

Looks like I spoke too soon! Whilst I was shutting our gate the other day, I was standing behind the Panda when my wife pulled away. The engine faltered, a good puff of black smoke came out of the exhaust, the engine picked up and was then fine. So the new airflow meter has not made any difference, but something has caused the engine to overfuel. Perhaps a sensor fault? Oh well, back to Arnold Clark for round 2.:bang:

Oh well at least Arnold Clark Perth manage to maintain their “We can’t fix it” record . Just wait until they adopt their "couldn't care less" attitude... but heres the bill anyway!:bang:

 

[hairyjim]

'hairyjim'...your nearest dealer can fit a new redesigned filter and gasket to stop your problem.

Thanks for the info! I'll pop in to him next week and ask about it.
Since I took it apart I haven't had any more problems, but I suspect that's got more to do with it being dry than anything I might have done myself...

I'll post an update after I've been to see the garage.