Technical Multijet - loss of power after cold start

[Multijet Maniac]

Hi there
I'm a newbie, my 05 Multijet has done 62,000m as it takes me from the South coast to Leatherhead 5 days a week!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bang:

My fuel economy is reducing & she is getting "power surges" where she seems to lose the grunt & then it comes back again, when it had a similar problem under warranty, it was the EGR & this was replaced. However, I have never got back to the 71.2 mpg :worship:I was getting when I first got her.......the problem is occuring again, especially after a cold start, I have now resorted to a bottle of Redex a week to keep things flowing as I don't want to take it back to the garage!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank God I have found this site.........

 

[Tautas]

Hi guys,

Came across this thread while trying to find an explanation for my 00 Fiat Puno 1.2 problems. Mine is petrol, rather than desiel, but the problems are prety much the same: Rough idle, loss of power at ~1500-2000rpms, that happens around 30-60sec after start from cold. Lasts for about 30sec and then works fine again. Petrol consumption has doubled and I get a smell of petrol when I stop at the lights. I get another thing no one else metioned here. 30-60sec after starting the engine, car starts to idle rough (like if choking) and a spater of some black, wet, oily smoke starts coming out that leaves a black stain under the exhaust. It stops in a min or so and idles a bit better then.

So far I had a sniffer test done on it which indicated that the head gasket is leaking somewhere or is about to go (as the mechanic refered to it). After much hesitation (have to mention that there was no oil visible in coolant or mayo under oil cap which would be obvious signs) I found another mechanic someone recomended who agreed to do the gasket for 350eur (still ouch). Picked up the car on friday and it is exactly the same as it was...

I am really pissed of about that. So I'll get another sniffer test done on monday just to make sure that the guy DID CHANGE THE GASKET, as I have some concerns that he might have not done anything at all.

If I learn that the head gasket is fine, then I think you guys will be much closer with guesses here. Since the very begining I had a feeling It was something with fuel mixture... I've read about people having MAF sensors changed that fixed the problem. My case is that engine is not fuel injected and as far as I understand it had no MAF sensor. How does it work and what does that job in carburated engines in that case?

Would appreciate any help. Will also give an update on my sniffer test tomorow.

Cheers
Tautas.

 

[306maxi]

Hi , I have a fiat bravo 1.4 active sport, it is 1 week out and just the same as you it just cut out no power, when i tried to restart it the low fuel light came on even thou their is over half a tank of fuel in the car. the RAC had to take me home, i could have died.

Nothing like being a bit dramatic. I've just shifted a tonne of gravel around the back of the house. I could have died!

 

[Ffoxy]

I am pretty sure the EGR is responsible for a lot of these weird running when cold issues on diesels, maybe even on a hot engine depending whether the EGR is ticking open or shut. The EGR should remain closed until the engine is at full operating temperature, then it should open and recirculate the exhaust gasses to clean up emissions. If the EGR is stuck open due to sooty deposits it will affect cold running.

I have asked elsewhere on here about EGR cleaning and it should be possible to do in 20 - 30 mins or so. It should be a major Service item IMO but it isnt as it may be seen as a bit of a cashcow for dealers as some seem to have experienced.

Anyone got a picture of the Fiat JTD (Bosch?) EGR and its location with maybe a Guide on how to remove and clean at all?

 

[RG1]

Recently had these symptoms with my 22000 mile 30 month old Multijet. The problem was rectified by Westover (Salisbury) who diagnosed the problem as being in the wiring from the MAF sensor. I think all they did was clean and lubricate the multi-pin connector and it now appears to be OK. Hope this helps.

 

[Derv drinker]

I have just started to get identical problems, SGM at Swanwick looked at it and agreed that there was a problem and found that there was a throttle position error and cleared it. They said it was caused by braking and operating the throttle at the same time, which with my clumsy feet I could well believe. Though I still expect the EGR to contribute to this problem, as it would feel like kangaroo juice was being used between 1500 and 2000 rpm, and this would explain the loss of power as it opened and shut repeatedly. When I used millers sport additive I had no problems and will most probably start using this again.

 

[The Beard]

Recently had these symptoms with my 22000 mile 30 month old Multijet. The problem was rectified by Westover (Salisbury) who diagnosed the problem as being in the wiring from the MAF sensor. I think all they did was clean and lubricate the multi-pin connector and it now appears to be OK. Hope this helps.

MAF sensor. that's what I had replaced. Couldn't for the life of me remember what it was called. Fuel consumption was definitely up during the week before
and it did run a bit rough. Unfortunately it was out of warranty by then.

 

[pulhamdown]

Just a quick update. The car has performed perfectly now for around 7 weeks since the air flow meter was replaced. Looks like that may have been the problem.

 

[pulhamdown]

Well, it appears we`re back to square one. Yesterday, after a day of heavy rain, the car refused to rev over 1000 rpm after around 400 yards from a cold start. After another 400 yards, the engine picked up, and was fine for the rest of the day. It looks like something is telling the ecu to shut down the fuel supply, and go onto limp home mode. Back to Arnold Clark. However, they have said that until they can reproduce the fault, they can`t diagnose it properly. It does seem that a few people on here have had this same problem, but without any universal solution.

 

[Trimdoner]

As I said before, my MJ did the same on many occasions, finally one wet morning refusing to start at all. Symptoms were exactly the same as if the injector timing was far too advanced - the engine lurched over and locked up.

As the dealers (and now myself - I bought an RAC code reader) have checked it for error codes, and none showed, a trip to the dealers seemed pointless. ("Can't do anything, Guv, it's not showing any codes...")

So out with the WD40.

I removed the two multiplugs on top of the ECU, sprayed the terminals and plugs with WD, and tried again.....and it started. Two cylinders at first, but after a few seconds back to all four. That was two months ago and it's been no trouble since.:worship: Plus it's now averaging a fraction over 60mpg, something it never did before - always low 50's.

The car is 18 months old and 19000 miles, and obviously still under warranty, but the occasions when it's been back to the dealers it has been a total waste of time.

The Panda is an excellent, electronically complicated, small diesel car which Fiat should be proud of. But it's dealer network (in County Durham at least) is pretty pathetic and not very confidence inspiring.

* I used to think WD40 was only for old petrol Fords and Rovers.....

 

[trackdayqueen]

Mine had a sensor (can't remember which now) replaced, but unfortunately not under warranty. That only corrected poor fuel consumption as there was nothing particularly wrong with the performance. What it has done for so long I've begun to think it's normal, is to be reluctant to rev above 2,000 from cold. I wonder if it's the engine's way of protecting itself until the oil has warmed up and got moving round the turbo and other delicate parts. It also almost dies when I stop at the lights about 150 yards after starting up. Otherwise it still runs well and gives mid to high 50s mpg.

I don't think that is normal. Mine used to rev to 3.5K from cold without issue.

 

[pulhamdown]

So out with the WD40.

I removed the two multiplugs on top of the ECU, sprayed the terminals and plugs with WD, and tried again.....and it started. Two cylinders at first, but after a few seconds back to all four. That was two months ago and it's been no trouble since.

Reply:

I tried the same with our Panda nearly three weeks ago, and so far the problem has not reappeared. Just before spraying the WD40 I noticed quite a bit of moisture around the ECU connectors. I`m really hoping this will cure the problem, since the dealer network doesn`t seem to have any answers! We`ve had some really poor weather up here recently, so I`m confident that this may be the answer.

 

[Trimdoner]

I'm pleased it worked for you as well

Our MJ hasn't been any trouble since, so I'm considering doing a 'pre-winter' once over of all the plus and connectors, just in case.

 

[Trogs59]

:bang:Hi Thanks for this advice. I have a 2005 Panda Multijet 85k miles and just started all the same symptoms. You posted this as I had taken mine into Fiat. £65 + Vat for the diagnosis and surprise surprise the MAF was diagnosed. After much reference to this site the terminals were cleaned and touchwood no problems yet.
For those equally frustrated
Error was recorded as P0101 Air Flow meter signal, S.C. to ground. Intermittent

Under probable causes

Connections faulty
Wiring Continuity
Wiring Isolation
Air Flow Meter faulty

If error message is 'Signal not feasible' check also:
Air flow meter power supply(short - circuit)

Hopethis helps - armed with this info I actually found Fiat (Westover Poole ) very helpful.

The panda is a great little car. Economical and nippy (yes got a speeding ticket in the first week) Been to Spain and Back in it. What more could you ask for.

 

[Trimdoner]

I plug my RAC code reader in every couple of weeks just to check, but haven't shown any error codes up to now. Even when the damned car wouldn't start, as mentioned before
Nearly 22,000 on the clock now, and it's not coughed or spluttered since WD40.
MPG still isn't brilliant though - even though driven as if the throttle pedal was connected to a needle touching my eyeball, the warmer summer months averaged low 60's tank to tank, but now the weather is colder it's back to mid 50's.

As it's getting close to a scheduled service ( 24K or 2year in April 09) has anyone had any experience of the 'third year dealer warranty'? A quick read through the exclusions in the handbook and it appears as though most items are excluded except a total engine explosion, and as my last dealer service was less than impressive - and £165 - I wondered if anyone had successfully claimed for anything under the third year warranty
If I service it myself it will cost about £35........

 

[happypanda]

where is the ECU on a multijet Panda?

 

[happypanda]

help where is it?

 

[Trimdoner]

help where is it?

Big silver box with wires going in the top, on the passenger side of the air filter housing, above the clutch housing. You can't miss it..............

Slide the yellow plastic clips back, which then lets you pull the handles up to disengage the two big multiplugs.

 

[David T]

Hi, we have a similar problem with our multijet, it normaly happens after rain but is fine once the engine has warmed up. I think it may be associated with water in the fuel as small diesels are very susceptible to very small amounts of water in the diesel.

We've also noticed steam coming from the exhaust particularly when the car goes up a hill from cold. This may be associated with the pick-up position in the tank and the movement of water in the diesel. Do these cars have a water separator in the fuel filter?

 

[pulhamdown]

Hi, we have a similar problem with our multijet, it normaly happens after rain but is fine once the engine has warmed up. I think it may be associated with water in the fuel as small diesels are very susceptible to very small amounts of water in the diesel.

Try disconnecting the main lead on top of the ECU and spray both male and female parts with WD40. Reassemble. Cured ours completely.
Colin