pulhamdown
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TJ07 Oh well at least Arnold Clark Perth manage to maintain their “We can’t fix it” record :rolleyes:. Just wait until they adopt their "couldn't care less" attitude... but heres the bill anyway!:bang:[/QUOTE said:
Technical Multijet - loss of power after cold start
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Technical Multijet - loss of power after cold start
Green Giant
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I know this is a pretty old thread now, but had to relate todays saga and throw some light on where the water is coming from.
Like others, my wife’s 05 MJ has been suffering hesitation after cold starts and driving about 100 metres especially after heavy rain. Reading all the previous postings with interest, I sprayed the ECU connections with WD40 but with no noticeable improvement. Yesterday, I removed the air filter housing and there was water in both chambers. There must have been about half a cup in the bottom chamber by the MAF. So I dried it out and reassembled it. Then it rained. When I went back to it and opened the bonnet, there was a small amount of water on the right hand side of the filter housing in the filter recess and also in the chambers. When I removed the MAF I could see the bottom chamber was again full of water. The source of the water was the centre of the three self tappers which hold the black plastic cover in place at the bottom of the screen. Water was dripping through the nylon bush on to the air filter cover. I took out the bush and dried it, coated it in silicone sealant and screwed in the self tapper . As a belt and braces job, I cut a strip of thin Butyl rubber sheet (pond liner) about 150mm by 500mm and trapped the long edge under the bulk head sealing strip and tucked it behind the filter housing. If any water does penetrate, it will run down the back of the strip and away. Today, after the car has been stood and driven in the rain, the air filter has stayed dry. It didn’t hesitate and fingers crossed the problem is solved.
We will see tomorrow. Does the modified airbox/gasket overcome the efects of the dripping water problem? I think I need to go and talk to the dealer.
Out of interest, the MAF to turbo pipe was loose at the turbo, which probably didn’t help. One last thing, this recent buy is missing the air filter to front grill inlet pipe. Has anyone got one sculling around the garage?
Like others, my wife’s 05 MJ has been suffering hesitation after cold starts and driving about 100 metres especially after heavy rain. Reading all the previous postings with interest, I sprayed the ECU connections with WD40 but with no noticeable improvement. Yesterday, I removed the air filter housing and there was water in both chambers. There must have been about half a cup in the bottom chamber by the MAF. So I dried it out and reassembled it. Then it rained. When I went back to it and opened the bonnet, there was a small amount of water on the right hand side of the filter housing in the filter recess and also in the chambers. When I removed the MAF I could see the bottom chamber was again full of water. The source of the water was the centre of the three self tappers which hold the black plastic cover in place at the bottom of the screen. Water was dripping through the nylon bush on to the air filter cover. I took out the bush and dried it, coated it in silicone sealant and screwed in the self tapper . As a belt and braces job, I cut a strip of thin Butyl rubber sheet (pond liner) about 150mm by 500mm and trapped the long edge under the bulk head sealing strip and tucked it behind the filter housing. If any water does penetrate, it will run down the back of the strip and away. Today, after the car has been stood and driven in the rain, the air filter has stayed dry. It didn’t hesitate and fingers crossed the problem is solved.
We will see tomorrow. Does the modified airbox/gasket overcome the efects of the dripping water problem? I think I need to go and talk to the dealer. Out of interest, the MAF to turbo pipe was loose at the turbo, which probably didn’t help. One last thing, this recent buy is missing the air filter to front grill inlet pipe. Has anyone got one sculling around the garage?
Just re-read this thread, and can't believe I haven't posted on it!
I have been having a loss of power at cold start for a while now. Like a year... Gradually getting worse, with a misfire at 1500rpm.
It's had a couple of EGR valves in the four years I've had it. A few months back it had a compression test, which was low on cylinders 3 & 4 when dry, and remained low when wet. This (apparently) normally indicates a sticking valve or worn valve stem. I wondered if this might have been partly caused by the previous EGR faults, which may have allowed more soot to recirculate than normal. Because removing the head to investigate further is a big deal, then apparently did something to the valves (maybe rotate them in place?). It ran OK for a week, then went back to as before... except it got worse.
As it got worse, the symptoms came to include smoky start up, lack of power, poorer economy, rattly noise... sound familiar?
This got to a point where it wouldn't rev over 1500rpm, then it wouldn't rev at all. Literally. In neutral, accelerator to the floor, 1000rpm. The lack of power meant that it wouldn't move off in first without slipping the clutch a lot.
So it went back, and the dealer tried swapping the injectors over from another car, which they said cured the problem. So the injectors were reconditioned, as new injectors are over £1000 for 4.
With the new injectors, it's better than it was, but it's still not right. Still lacks power a bit, and the revs hunt when it starts. And it's noisier when cold.
I've had the airbox off, and it's as dry as a bone in there. As an aside, my airbox has two small drain holes at the bottom. I wonder if they all have them?
I haven't tried WD40-ing the ECU plugs yet. The connectors looked pristine when I checked them out.
So I wonder if the valves are the actual problem? has anyone else with this problem had a compression test?
I have been having a loss of power at cold start for a while now. Like a year... Gradually getting worse, with a misfire at 1500rpm.
It's had a couple of EGR valves in the four years I've had it. A few months back it had a compression test, which was low on cylinders 3 & 4 when dry, and remained low when wet. This (apparently) normally indicates a sticking valve or worn valve stem. I wondered if this might have been partly caused by the previous EGR faults, which may have allowed more soot to recirculate than normal. Because removing the head to investigate further is a big deal, then apparently did something to the valves (maybe rotate them in place?). It ran OK for a week, then went back to as before... except it got worse.
As it got worse, the symptoms came to include smoky start up, lack of power, poorer economy, rattly noise... sound familiar?
This got to a point where it wouldn't rev over 1500rpm, then it wouldn't rev at all. Literally. In neutral, accelerator to the floor, 1000rpm. The lack of power meant that it wouldn't move off in first without slipping the clutch a lot.
So it went back, and the dealer tried swapping the injectors over from another car, which they said cured the problem. So the injectors were reconditioned, as new injectors are over £1000 for 4.
With the new injectors, it's better than it was, but it's still not right. Still lacks power a bit, and the revs hunt when it starts. And it's noisier when cold.
I've had the airbox off, and it's as dry as a bone in there. As an aside, my airbox has two small drain holes at the bottom. I wonder if they all have them?
I haven't tried WD40-ing the ECU plugs yet. The connectors looked pristine when I checked them out.
So I wonder if the valves are the actual problem? has anyone else with this problem had a compression test?
D4nny8oy
Established member
aside from removing the head and reseating the valves which is a big and can be expensive job, id recommend getting some diesel fuel cleaner somthing like redex fuel cleaner for diesel and also try running the car on shell diesel fuel for a month as they clean the engine extremely well!
Hi my mj was in for mot & serv a week or so & I reported a loss of power when bucketing down & they told me they had had a service bulletin to block up a hole which they reckon was causing problems. They should all have wind of it now.
Propellorhead
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Thanks, esp. GreenGiant & joe1962.
After 18 months I finally figured out the problem, and it has been confirmed by these postings.
This was my conclusion:
"The problem was caused by rainwater dripping through a screw hole onto the electrics. The screw hole is to fasten the black plastic grille below the windscreen wipers. The screw goes into a plastic insert, and rainwater copiously drips onto the rear of the car engine when parked (EGR wiring?). Fixed by removing the screw, and adding a small (5mm) dollop of silicon sealant"
I was dismayed that fiat has a technical bulletin regarding this - they (Simonstone Bristol) simply replaced my MAF. The problem returned with the wet weather.
Fixing the water ingress to engine compartment has been totally successful.
After 18 months I finally figured out the problem, and it has been confirmed by these postings.
This was my conclusion:
"The problem was caused by rainwater dripping through a screw hole onto the electrics. The screw hole is to fasten the black plastic grille below the windscreen wipers. The screw goes into a plastic insert, and rainwater copiously drips onto the rear of the car engine when parked (EGR wiring?). Fixed by removing the screw, and adding a small (5mm) dollop of silicon sealant"
I was dismayed that fiat has a technical bulletin regarding this - they (Simonstone Bristol) simply replaced my MAF. The problem returned with the wet weather.
Fixing the water ingress to engine compartment has been totally successful.
Have been reading the entire thing...
some ask if the ecu will report engine check lights if rong signals is send from the maf.. as far as i know NO.. ¨
havnt been having problems with water.. because have been driving with an cone airfilter for..ever almost..
sod in the engine is cleaned in the old method with water at high rpm.. but dont try because i said so.. to mutch will hydro lock your engine..
I use nitrous oxide that seems to regain some power after use.. and during ;-)
when i had problems starting it was a O ring in the bosch high pressure pump that was leaking.. easy to fix..
2nd time.. diesel injector was open all the time causing low fuel rail pressure so no start.. or verry hard to start.. easy fix if you have a spare injector
Engine cuts into limp mode will limited speeds to around 120km/h
an error is recorded in the ecu and if not present at new start up it will remove engine check light after 3times start stop of the engine.! but will remember error code..
diesel tuning boxes turned to high will generate a "low fuel rail pressure" error.
The turbo.. the car has a MAP sensor present at the back of the intake manifold and is on the 70hp models a 2.5bars sensor.. max boost 1.5bars if more engine lights will cut in and stop the fun. this sensor has failed on me an was showing 0.4bars of boost even at idle.. this caused me to cut in to 1.5bars even before i did "real" 1,1bars of boost.. easy fix new sensor..! and back to my 1.45bars of boost
Oh another thing rear hubs are dead easy to change! order online and change your self. easy fix..
well to my Q
is your panda mjet realy realy slow from cold start.. mega turbo lack have done 120.000km havnt checked the EGR yet not more than looking on the fiat program for my ELM327 OBD2 box..
does your panda pull from 1500rpm in high gears..or do you first feel something at around 2000rpm?
some ask if the ecu will report engine check lights if rong signals is send from the maf.. as far as i know NO.. ¨
havnt been having problems with water.. because have been driving with an cone airfilter for..ever almost..
sod in the engine is cleaned in the old method with water at high rpm.. but dont try because i said so.. to mutch will hydro lock your engine..
I use nitrous oxide that seems to regain some power after use..
and during ;-) when i had problems starting it was a O ring in the bosch high pressure pump that was leaking.. easy to fix..
2nd time.. diesel injector was open all the time causing low fuel rail pressure so no start.. or verry hard to start.. easy fix if you have a spare injector
Engine cuts into limp mode will limited speeds to around 120km/h
an error is recorded in the ecu and if not present at new start up it will remove engine check light after 3times start stop of the engine.! but will remember error code..
diesel tuning boxes turned to high will generate a "low fuel rail pressure" error.
The turbo.. the car has a MAP sensor present at the back of the intake manifold and is on the 70hp models a 2.5bars sensor.. max boost 1.5bars if more engine lights will cut in and stop the fun. this sensor has failed on me an was showing 0.4bars of boost even at idle.. this caused me to cut in to 1.5bars even before i did "real" 1,1bars of boost.. easy fix new sensor..! and back to my 1.45bars of boost
Oh another thing rear hubs are dead easy to change! order online and change your self. easy fix..
well to my Q
is your panda mjet realy realy slow from cold start.. mega turbo lack have done 120.000km havnt checked the EGR yet not more than looking on the fiat program for my ELM327 OBD2 box..
does your panda pull from 1500rpm in high gears..or do you first feel something at around 2000rpm?
bubionbreakfast
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Hi there,
I have a panda 1.3 4x4 M-Cross, and live in spain. Had no problems with it till this winter, I has 45000kms now and is out of warranty (of course).
My problem is the same loss of power on cold start. Feels like it is only running on 3 for the first 10 minutes. If I turn the air con on it practically stalls. It is also extremly rough running from 1200-1600 rpm, but quite smooth from 2000 up. I have followed this thread and been through some of the suggestions.
Took the air filter apart, no moisture present. It seems to be sensitive to temp, so could be the sensor, but I have had no warning lights (apart from a power steering warning once)
Took apart the ecu plugs (which were dry) and when I restarted, the car was significantly better and more powerful, although maintains the rough mid-range.
I am reluctant to take it to the Fiat garage, as they are no so helpful, except in removing euro from my wallet.
Do I need a software update?
Could it be the EGR?
any suggetions greatfully recieved
I have a panda 1.3 4x4 M-Cross, and live in spain. Had no problems with it till this winter, I has 45000kms now and is out of warranty (of course).
My problem is the same loss of power on cold start. Feels like it is only running on 3 for the first 10 minutes. If I turn the air con on it practically stalls. It is also extremly rough running from 1200-1600 rpm, but quite smooth from 2000 up. I have followed this thread and been through some of the suggestions.
Took the air filter apart, no moisture present. It seems to be sensitive to temp, so could be the sensor, but I have had no warning lights (apart from a power steering warning once)
Took apart the ecu plugs (which were dry) and when I restarted, the car was significantly better and more powerful, although maintains the rough mid-range.
I am reluctant to take it to the Fiat garage, as they are no so helpful, except in removing euro from my wallet.
Do I need a software update?
Could it be the EGR?
any suggetions greatfully recieved
Hi all,
I have Panda 1.1 2007. I must say this forum saved me at all. What troubles I had:
Firstly, 6 months ago, the engine sometimes stopped when running idle. Usually it died in last few meters before stopping in front of the crossing. Then it was getting more and more frequent. Then it started to have troubles alse under the throttle (1/2 open) - sometimes it just died, orange warning light goes on, after few seconds it comes back to operate normally. Last week it was 5 times in my 15km way to work. SOmetime also the idle speed (rpm) were not stable and come up and down (dont have rpm meter to write down the numbers).
What I did 2 days ago:
Read this thread.
Took apart ALL electric plugs accessible (including those of ECU) and sprayed all of it with WD40. Put it back.
Took apart the air intake and cleaned all of it including the throttle valve and its "idle valve" (or what is the terminology to use). Anyway "idle vlave" could not be taken off the throttle valve body, so I just used WD40 and spayed it several times.
Conclusion:
It could be too soon to be satisfied, but not troubles occured since. Also it looks the fuel consumption is reduced.
So thank all of you for sharing your troubles and ideas to solve it.
I have Panda 1.1 2007. I must say this forum saved me at all. What troubles I had:
Firstly, 6 months ago, the engine sometimes stopped when running idle. Usually it died in last few meters before stopping in front of the crossing. Then it was getting more and more frequent. Then it started to have troubles alse under the throttle (1/2 open) - sometimes it just died, orange warning light goes on, after few seconds it comes back to operate normally. Last week it was 5 times in my 15km way to work. SOmetime also the idle speed (rpm) were not stable and come up and down (dont have rpm meter to write down the numbers).
What I did 2 days ago:
Read this thread
.Took apart ALL electric plugs accessible (including those of ECU) and sprayed all of it with WD40. Put it back.
Took apart the air intake and cleaned all of it including the throttle valve and its "idle valve" (or what is the terminology to use). Anyway "idle vlave" could not be taken off the throttle valve body, so I just used WD40 and spayed it several times.
Conclusion:
It could be too soon to be satisfied, but not troubles occured since. Also it looks the fuel consumption is reduced.
So thank all of you for sharing your troubles and ideas to solve it.
Derv drinker
New member
Having had starting and running problems on my MJ, it seems that I have solved them all relatively easily and cheaply. Failing to run (lumpy running) in the mornings ie, will fire but not run - unplug the MAF sensor and see if it cures it, if so new MAF (just a new sensor and not a whole assembly will keep costs down - Pierburg now list a sensor for the MJ - search other threads) Car drops into limp home mode, several issues, 1. Check airfliter box for water ingress, carefully remove MAF and look into front section of airfilter box, if it is wet, then you will need to silicon seal the trim screw that secures the plastic trim above the rear edge of the air filter element. It allows water to drip onto the filter sealing rubber which is more like sponge that rubber. 2. If there is no ECU warning, unplug MAF and start car if it drives fine and the Emissions light comes on then then dirty plug pins are suspected, you may find that when you replace the plug it will have cured the problem but the Emisions light is still on - start and stop the engine 4 times this will clear the fault light providing the problem is no longer present. ECU light comes on during hard acceleration, Turbo pressure control linkage sticking, the independent garage cleaned this FOC when replacing the clutch - problem solved. Hopefully all garages that know the Panda will do this when they have access to it to keep it free and moving as it seems to be widely known about. Hopefully, these fixes will keep you running and give good starting places to look for problems.
4x4
New member
Yes, I have the same problem but only in winter.
I live in Cyprus so rain is quite a problem i.e. we don't have much so I can disregard water ingress as the culprit although to be safe I have followed many water ingress cures posted here.
What I can say is the problem only exists between January and March when we have our winter. The temperature drops from 16-20C down to as low a 6C at night. We don't have frost.
What I have noticed is if I start the car and leave the engine idling for 30 seconds or so (I wait until I can no longer hear an electric motor running - think it might be something to do with the fuel) then back out of my drive and set off, it never has the loss of power problem - bags of revs available everytime.
If I start the car, back out and drive off without waiting until 'that electric motor' stops, the loss of power problem quite often returns within a hundred metres or so.
When it happens I just stop, switch off the engine, curse and monk for a while then start up again and drive off. The problem does not repeat for the rest of the day even if not used for 12 hours or so. It just waits until I really need the car to go at full pelt the following morning.
I've got used to it now so, in winter I start car, get out, open gates, wave to dog, get back in, listen for elect motor, if motor stopped reverse out, shut gates and drive off.
It's a bugger but I can live with it knowing how to avoid it.
I live in Cyprus so rain is quite a problem i.e. we don't have much so I can disregard water ingress as the culprit although to be safe I have followed many water ingress cures posted here.
What I can say is the problem only exists between January and March when we have our winter. The temperature drops from 16-20C down to as low a 6C at night. We don't have frost.
What I have noticed is if I start the car and leave the engine idling for 30 seconds or so (I wait until I can no longer hear an electric motor running - think it might be something to do with the fuel) then back out of my drive and set off, it never has the loss of power problem - bags of revs available everytime.
If I start the car, back out and drive off without waiting until 'that electric motor' stops, the loss of power problem quite often returns within a hundred metres or so.
When it happens I just stop, switch off the engine, curse and monk for a while then start up again and drive off. The problem does not repeat for the rest of the day even if not used for 12 hours or so. It just waits until I really need the car to go at full pelt the following morning.
I've got used to it now so, in winter I start car, get out, open gates, wave to dog, get back in, listen for elect motor, if motor stopped reverse out, shut gates and drive off.
It's a bugger but I can live with it knowing how to avoid it.
Just picked up my new (to me) Panda today. It's an '06 Multijet and I'd like to say a big thanks to the contributors of this thread. On giving it a service the air filter was discovered to be soaking. The screw hole was the reason. Also water had got as far as the MAF. Hole is now siliconed and a drip tray fashioned from foil is acting as a back-up to that. I hadn't experienced any issues with it but now hopefully I won't.
Same from me, just got a 2009 Multijet this week. I've checked and my air filter was wet too, I believe the screw hole is the reason. I've siliconed the hole and as I have some spare pond liner I've fiashioned a run off as Green Giant previosuly explained (trapping the liner under the bulk head sealing strip and tucked it behind the filter housing). So thank you Green Giant and everyone for this neat inexpensive fix.
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/283858-diesel-panda-very-slow-rev-up.html
check the above thread it may solve your problem.
check the above thread it may solve your problem.
Many, many thanks to the helpful folks on this forum for identifying the problem with my 06 Panda Multijet. I've followed the advice given, sealing the mentioned screw hole, inserting the pond-liner as described and removing the water that had accumulated in the air filter and MAF. It is now working perfectly after months of torment! I was astonished to find about half-a-cup of water in the lower compartment between the air filter and immediately before the MAF. The MAF sensor was also dripping wet! The Fiat design team ought to be ashamed (as should the Fiat garage in St Helens who were unable to diagnose the problem after a day of tinkering...). Best wishes, Des
I also have this as a recurring problem on my Multijet... It's garaged at home so isn't a problem I ever encounter on leaving the house in the morning. Instead it usually strikes my Panda on exiting the work car-park on days of heavy rain. Today was another one of those days...
Anyway would someone who had done the modifications above (siliconed hole and pond liner) be able to post a pic for me of their mods and put an arrow to show which hole to silicone up please?
I don't have time to thoroughly read over everything here and don't want to mistakingly seal the wrong hole lol. And if it's a job I can do myself without the expense of a garage, all the better... I'm sure it's a job suitable for a woman lol...
Anyway would someone who had done the modifications above (siliconed hole and pond liner) be able to post a pic for me of their mods and put an arrow to show which hole to silicone up please?
I don't have time to thoroughly read over everything here and don't want to mistakingly seal the wrong hole lol. And if it's a job I can do myself without the expense of a garage, all the better... I'm sure it's a job suitable for a woman lol...
hi my car has been suffering from thais problem a few times in the last month or 2. i guess its linked to the wet but it doesnt do it every wet day.
my car is a 58 plate 1.3 multijet.
the problem i get is it loses power and sometimes cuts out within seconds of starting in morning. never fails to start and the issue does go away after max few mins. the other day i had my foot down and it was as if the engine was off. no revs at all. that was a bit scary but usually it goes to about 20mph max then suddnly kicks in and where my foot is down it shoots off lol.
today based on the advice of this forum i took the clips off the ecu and i was left with what i can only describe as 2 big scart connections (im useless with cars) and i sprayed wd40 on them and clipped them back in. we'll see how i go but is there anything else an absolute novice can do at this point?? thanks
my car is a 58 plate 1.3 multijet.
the problem i get is it loses power and sometimes cuts out within seconds of starting in morning. never fails to start and the issue does go away after max few mins. the other day i had my foot down and it was as if the engine was off. no revs at all. that was a bit scary but usually it goes to about 20mph max then suddnly kicks in and where my foot is down it shoots off lol.
today based on the advice of this forum i took the clips off the ecu and i was left with what i can only describe as 2 big scart connections (im useless with cars) and i sprayed wd40 on them and clipped them back in. we'll see how i go but is there anything else an absolute novice can do at this point?? thanks
I'm personally 100% against the use ofWD40 as electrical contact cleaner, but it might help you for now.
gr J
gr J
