Technical JTD Starts but won't run

[The Painter]

Hi Everyone

Panda 1.3 JTD 2008

My Son has had a low speed accident resulting in panel damage to the nearside front of the car.

Afterwards the car would start and idle but wouldn't rev at all, now we have it home, I assumed the fuel cut off switch ( under the passenger seat ) may have tripped and I have pressed it the car will fire and run for a second and then cuts out, Ive tried this multiple times, there arent any extra lights on the dash to warn of anything so ive assumed the fuel simply isnt getting through, I can hear the pump prime when the ignition is switched on, I remember a rubber bulb which needed to be squeezed to reprime the diesel system on a citroen I owned many years ago, is there something similar on th Panda ?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[koalar]

start and idles okay (must be getting fuel from both pumps) with no error lights but will not rev at all. Check the accelerator is connected

 

[The Painter]

start and idles okay (must be getting fuel from both pumps) with no error lights but will not rev at all. Check the accelerator is connected

It did idle after we started it following the accident but wouldnt rev, but now it wont even idle, it just fires and dies.

 

[koalar]

It did idle after we started it following the accident but wouldnt rev, but now it wont even idle, it just fires and dies.

you really need someone with more fiat multijet experience to come along and chime in.

Do you have any way to read the live data from the fuel pressure sensor ?

These engines are hard to start if they aren't spinning over fast enough to create enough pressure to atomize the diesel properly. If you have been Trying for a bit you may need to use a jump start.

I can only be of little use, sorry

if it was me after an accident I would

reset the fuel cut off. (already done)
check for damage to the air intake pipes and airbox.
have a Good look and smell around the fuel lines and check for leaks also around the High pressure pump
inspect the battery leads and earths
check the fuses in the engine Bay for any that may have popped if any wire got trapped or relays that got dislodged by the impact.

 

[The Painter]

you really need someone with more fiat multijet experience to come along and chime in.

Do you have any way to read the live data from the fuel pressure sensor ?

These engines are hard to start if they aren't spinning over fast enough to create enough pressure to atomize the diesel properly. If you have been Trying for a bit you may need to use a jump start.

I can only be of little use, sorry

if it was me after an accident I would

reset the fuel cut off. (already done)
check for damage to the air intake pipes and airbox.
have a Good look and smell around the fuel lines and check for leaks also around the High pressure pump
inspect the battery leads and earths
check the fuses in the engine Bay for any that may have popped if any wire got trapped or relays that got dislodged by the impact.

Thanks Koalar, I'll go through these, appreciate your help.

 

[Cinq999]

I had an issue last week where my Multijet refused to fire up.

AA man came out and sprayed some carb cleaner in the intake, and it fired up, but not under its own steam.

My problem was that the 2 o rings in the fuel pressure regulator had worn through, and wasn't allowing the fuel rail to get up to pressure while cranking on the starter.

But first things first.

Either recharge the battery, or jump start it to make sure it's cranking over fast enough.

If that's fine, disconnect the fuel hose that goes into the HP fuel pump. Turn the ignition on, and you should get a fair amount of diesel pumped through. That'll eliminate any problem from the pump in the fuel tank/filter.

If you get fuel to the High Pressure pump, then you'll looking at an issue from that point onwards.

The pump itself is driven off the camshaft, so if it's working itself, it should be injecting fuel into the rail.

Next easiest thing is to check is the fuel pressure regulator on the right hand side of the fuel rail. Two bolts, and it pulls out. However be very careful, as the system runs at thousands of psi.

On mine, the 2 small o rings were eaten right through, and when cranking the fuel was going straight back to the tank.

 

[Cinq999]

As a side point, a cheap £10 Bluetooth OBD reader and Torque or similar app on a mobile phone will show you the pressure in the fuel rail.

While cranking I was only getting 500 psi.

Changed the regulator, and it went up to 6000psi at idle.

 

[The Painter]

As a side point, a cheap £10 Bluetooth OBD reader and Torque or similar app on a mobile phone will show you the pressure in the fuel rail.

While cranking I was only getting 500 psi.

Changed the regulator, and it went up to 6000psi at idle.

Thanks Cinq999

 

[RalphM]

The fuel line runs under the front nearside could that have been damaged
there's a coil of fuel pipe and a connector under there.

 

[Cinq999]

The fuel line runs under the front nearside could that have been damaged
there's a coil of fuel pipe and a connector under there.

That's not the fuel pipe, that's the clutch hydraulic pipework I think.

Fuel filter is rear left looking into the engine bay. Fuel pipes then run along the top of the fuel rail, and connect into the HP pump, top front right of engine head.

 

[Cinq999]

This is the HP fuel pump. Pipe you can see going into it at the front is the diesel in from the tank, via fuel filter top left (Panda has a slightly different type of filter compared to pic).

 

[DaveMcT]

If you feel adventurous, injection pump seal kits are under £20 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162076517773

If it all goes **up, a refurb pump is £160 plus £25 delivery
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114424474295?hash=item1aa43aeab7:g:4WYAAOSwFYFg9YSt
But it's from Poland so delivery will be slow.

 

[koalar]

This might be daft. But not revving is also a classic Crank sensor problem

could it possibly have got damaged in the accident ?

 

[DaveMcT]

This might be daft. But not revving is also a classic Crank sensor problem

could it possibly have got damaged in the accident ?

That's interesting. I'm not (yet) familiar with the 1.3 diesel, but always assumed the CPS would just cause the engine to stop.

 

[Cinq999]

A dead crank sensor "should" throw up a fault code.

Best thing to do is get either an obd scanner that reads live data, or an adaptor and use an app on your phone.

That'll tell you if there's fuel getting to the rail and injectors at least.

If there's fuel (and sufficient pressure), then it will probably be a sensor or something electrical telling the injectors not to inject.

 

[Olstad]

I had an issue last week where my Multijet refused to fire up.

AA man came out and sprayed some carb cleaner in the intake, and it fired up, but not under its own steam.

My problem was that the 2 o rings in the fuel pressure regulator had worn through, and wasn't allowing the fuel rail to get up to pressure while cranking on the starter.

But first things first.

Either recharge the battery, or jump start it to make sure it's cranking over fast enough.

If that's fine, disconnect the fuel hose that goes into the HP fuel pump. Turn the ignition on, and you should get a fair amount of diesel pumped through. That'll eliminate any problem from the pump in the fuel tank/filter.

If you get fuel to the High Pressure pump, then you'll looking at an issue from that point onwards.

The pump itself is driven off the camshaft, so if it's working itself, it should be injecting fuel into the rail.

Next easiest thing is to check is the fuel pressure regulator on the right hand side of the fuel rail. Two bolts, and it pulls out. However be very careful, as the system runs at thousands of psi.

On mine, the 2 small o rings were eaten right through, and when cranking the fuel was going straight back to the tank.

Hi.
How do i check the fuel pressure regulator?
I have a similar problem.. the car starts up fine, but dies right after agian. It runs poorly like on 3 cylinders and poor idle (around 5-600 RPM).
Any clues?

 

[koalar]

Hi.
How do i check the fuel pressure regulator?
I have a similar problem.. the car starts up fine, but dies right after agian. It runs poorly like on 3 cylinders and poor idle (around 5-600 RPM).
Any clues?

diesel or petrol ?