General Is The 105 TA Engine Still Available?

[AGH1965]

I still try to understand. Is the TA so expensive or is the 595 so cheap in the UK?

A 595 COMPETIZIONE is in the UK cheaper than an entry level 595 in my country. In my country 595 COMPETIZIONE prices start at €33395 = £29981.

Is there no CO2 based sales tax in the UK?

 

[Eklipze3k]

Is there no CO2 based sales tax in the UK?

Not on sales, but we pay an annual "road fund license" which differs based on CO2 emissions. For what it's worth, the TA105's emissions are so low (or at least they were in 2014 for my wife's TA) that the RFL is free. I don't know what the RFL is on a 595, but it's not £15k per year so it's still cheaper here

 

[Thaidai]

Not on sales, but we pay an annual "road fund license" which differs based on CO2 emissions. For what it's worth, the TA105's emissions are so low (or at least they were in 2014 for my wife's TA) that the RFL is free. I don't know what the RFL is on a 595, but it's not £15k per year so it's still cheaper here

Currently its £140 per year on a 595...

 

[jrkitching]

Currently its £140 per year on a 595...

In the UK, the tax on new cars is based on emissions for the first year only.

Thereafter, it's £140pa on any petrol or diesel car first registered after 1st April 2017 with a list price under £40,000.

The tax treatment of cars registered before 1st April 2017 but after Feb 2001 is completely different, and there is substantial variation based on emissions.

You will pay a lot more tax on a new TA than on a a used one registered before 1/1/17.

 

[puntofan01]

I know. I can't afford to replace my 5-series with another 5-series when the time comes, as the monthly tax bill could buy me a Sei Sporting every month!

In fairness, I do 35k miles a year on company business, often driving 300+ miles in a day, with meetings in-between the driving...

I'd love to run a big Alfa or Fiat, but we don't have the option of an Alfa and Fiat just don't make big cars anymore.

Got to ask: where did the dumb obsession with "prestige" company cars come from? As I understand, at 1 point, the company car driver would've been very happy to have been given a decent spec Mondeo or Vectra/Insignia. Where did it all go wrong?!

 

[Schumi2001]

Got to ask: where did the dumb obsession with "prestige" company cars come from? As I understand, at 1 point, the company car driver would've been very happy to have been given a decent spec Mondeo or Vectra/Insignia. Where did it all go wrong?!

Residuals. We've removed Ford from our company car choices... but when they were on there, a Mondeo Titanium cost more to lease than a 520d SE. Granted, the Ford had some toys the BMW didn't, but the Ford was cheap and nasty in comparison - a lot less refined, and thirsty like you wouldn't believe! (I had a Mondeo rental for a few weeks and it returned 34mpg in 2.2 diesel auto form, whilst the 520d returns 48mpg!) - and the mainstream never really caught onto the emissions tests - Mondeos were all at least one tax band higher, unless you went with a poverty 1.6 diesel.

(There's also customer perception - you have to balance flash vs credibility and when you're negotiating deals worth tens of million, you don't want someone turning up in a recession white Vauxhall on plastic wheel trims!)

 

[puntofan01]

I see! I suppose as everyone now drives snobmobiles, anyone with a more modestly priced car will stand out.

 

[AGH1965]

You will pay a lot more tax on a new TA than on a a used one registered before 1/1/17.

A lot more? In my opinion these first year car taxes are close to nothing. Using the link you provided earlier I found the following rates:

• 500S TA85 - CO2 = 106 g/km - first year car tax = £145
• 500S 1.2 - CO2 = 122 g/km - first year car tax = £165
• 595 - CO2 = 151 g/km - first year car tax = £515

OK, the first year car tax for the 595 might seem high, but even £515 is a bargain. The Dutch CO2 based sales tax called BPM is much higher:

• CO2 = 106 g/km - BMP = €3383 = £3041
• CO2 = 122 g/km - BPM = €5479 = £4925
• CO2 = 151 g/km - BPM = €12854 = £11554

Now I understand why people in the UK can switch so easily from a 500 with TA to a 595.

 

[306maxi]

I see! I suppose as everyone now drives snobmobiles, anyone with a more modestly priced car will stand out.

Nope. MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have my 3 series than a Mundaneo or a Poxhall Insignia.

You’ve obviously got some sort of chip on your shoulder about anyone driving anything nicer than a Punto, drive some better cars and maybe you’ll get it then.

 

[Schumi2001]

Nope. MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have my 3 series than a Mundaneo or a Poxhall Insignia.

I looked at the 3 and 4 Gran Coupe, but they're cheap and nasty compared with a 5 - despite costing much the same money.

 

[jrkitching]

Got to ask: where did the dumb obsession with "prestige" company cars come from? As I understand, at 1 point, the company car driver would've been very happy to have been given a decent spec Mondeo or Vectra/Insignia. Where did it all go wrong?!

It started with the pay & price freeze introduced by the Heath government in 1972. Companies were losing staff to their competitors by the shedload and couldn't increase direct wages, so there was a free-for-all bonanza on perks, especially company cars. It wasn't long before the company car became inexorably linked to the status of the employee.

I interviewed one chap who turned an offer down saying he'd have loved to come and work for us, but how was he supposed to convince his wife, family & friends he'd got a better job, when he was driving around in a worse car? Another eejit actually refused a transfer to a job with 20% more pay because the Granada that came with it didn't have electric windows in the back, and his current Granada did.

I thought I'd miss the high end cars once I left the corporate life behind, but strangely it turned out to be something I never hankered after. Driving the Panda is a constant reminder of the freedom I've gained by leaving that world behind; I love it and have no wish to go back. I still can't stay in a top end hotel without reliving the pressures of those days; tbh I'm happier now in a nice family guesthouse.

But Maxi's right; the 500 comes nowhere near to offering the features and creature comforts of a modern midrange car. It still puts a smile on a lot of faces, though, and is much loved for that. If it wasn't, they'd never sell more than a handful to the diehards.

 

[306maxi]

I looked at the 3 and 4 Gran Coupe, but they're cheap and nasty compared with a 5 - despite costing much the same money.

Agree somewhat, the 3 and 4 are surprisingly cheap inside for the cost. Still beats a Mundaneo or Insignia though.

Not sure I need something as big as a 5 tbh.

 

[puntofan01]

Nope. MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have my 3 series than a Mundaneo or a Poxhall Insignia.

You’ve obviously got some sort of chip on your shoulder about anyone driving anything nicer than a Punto, drive some better cars and maybe you’ll get it then.

I'm just not a snob, that is all. I couldn't care less about the badge on the bonnet, it's the car itself I'm more interested in. Like schumi, given the choice, I'd much, much rather drive a Giulia than a 3 series, purely because I like it.

 

[puntofan01]

I looked at the 3 and 4 Gran Coupe, but they're cheap and nasty compared with a 5 - despite costing much the same money.

I must admit, I do feel that a lot of cars sell purely on their image/reputation. I'm not bothered about "perceived quality" but my grandads' Volvo V70 feels far plusher and more expensive than the 520d he had before it.

 

[306maxi]

I'm just not a snob, that is all. I couldn't care less about the badge on the bonnet, it's the car itself I'm more interested in. Like schumi, given the choice, I'd much, much rather drive a Giulia than a 3 series, purely because I like it.

So you are a snob then? I’d consider a Giulia, but Alf’s in their infinite wisdom don’t make an estate, they think an suv Is a legitimate replacement for an estate. It isn’t.

 

[306maxi]

I must admit, I do feel that a lot of cars sell purely on their image/reputation. I'm not bothered about "perceived quality" but my grandads' Volvo V70 feels far plusher and more expensive than the 520d he had before it.

You’re amazing. You state that you’re not interested in perceived quality and then in the same sentence talk about the perceived quality of one model over another.... You’re doing this for a joke, right? It’s almost as if different companies target different markets, Swedish stuff has always generally been on the more comfy end at the market....

 

[Melanabb]

I think people tend to mix quality with perceived prestige... Granted, more expensive cars have plusher insides or more gadgets- but at the end of the day it will still have an engine and four wheels...

My brother in law has remortgaged his house but he is driving a big BMW while his 17yr daughter got a 15 plate BMW-1 series for passing her driving test... We have 9 year old battered big Volvo and a cheap little Renault- but mortgage is almost gone... Couldn't care less what the neighbours think

 

[Ralf S.]

The NCAP rating is perfectly accurate. The 500 and Panda are a joke tbh.

No.. you're being mugged Max.

Imagine if you took a driving test 10 years ago and passed.. but suddenly the government decided that you randomly had to take another test, since the last one was 10 years ago... but this time, you now had to be able to read a number plate at 400 yards. You'd fail miserably and the DVLA would take your licence back.

That's what's happened to Panda. It did acceptably well when it was tested.. now NCAP decided that too many cars were scoring "acceptably well" so changed the test to include whether or not the car has stability control, EBD, VASC and all manner of stuff that might be useful if you need the car to wipe your arris after you've taken a dump but whose absence doesn't actually make a car "unsafe", as implied by a zero or one rating.

NCAP incidentally is funded by UK DoT and its EU equivalents. It gets funding by "constantly improving road safety" so it's not going to get much new budget if every car reaches 5 stars and UK.gov only sees that as "job done"... It will get funding if it continues to point out how many "unsafe" cars there are still out there.

Do you need an electronic cock-washer, to keep your man-tackle department fresh and itchy free (a lack of could lead to accidents don't you know...?). NCAP decided that and your car loses votes i.e. becomes UNSAFE! for not having one. That's NCAP that is.


Ralf S.

 

[306maxi]

No.. you're being mugged Max.

Imagine if you took a driving test 10 years ago and passed.. but suddenly the government decided that you randomly had to take another test, since the last one was 10 years ago... but this time, you now had to be able to read a number plate at 400 yards. You'd fail miserably and the DVLA would take your licence back.

That's what's happened to Panda. It did acceptably well when it was tested.. now NCAP decided that too many cars were scoring "acceptably well" so changed the test to include whether or not the car has stability control, EBD, VASC and all manner of stuff that might be useful if you need the car to wipe your arris after you've taken a dump but whose absence doesn't actually make a car "unsafe", as implied by a zero or one rating.

NCAP incidentally is funded by UK DoT and its EU equivalents. It gets funding by "constantly improving road safety" so it's not going to get much new budget if every car reaches 5 stars and UK.gov only sees that as "job done"... It will get funding if it continues to point out how many "unsafe" cars there are still out there.

Do you need an electronic cock-washer, to keep your man-tackle department fresh and itchy free (a lack of could lead to accidents don't you know...?). NCAP decided that and your car loses votes i.e. becomes UNSAFE! for not having one. That's NCAP that is.


Ralf S.

Imagine being that butthurt about trying to increase safety standards over time?

 

[Ralf S.]

Imagine being that butthurt about trying to increase safety standards over time?

I'm getting the impression you don't entirely agree with me...

I'm not butt-hurt... just calling out NCAP for their flawed methodology... so that their scores remain meaningful... in order to increase *real* rather than superficial safety standards over time.

I'm just saying that Panda got a score based on the NCAP test tthat was in force when it was tested... and now it gets a rubbish "score" because NCAP has re-tested it with a new test that the car was not capable of getting a "good" score in because the new test requirements didn't exist when it was designed and built.

Worse than that, the new tests rely on the presence of electronic aids rather than reflecting the car's passive safety which was what NCAP was originally conceived to improve. By definition, a small, cheap car built years ago when that tech' didn't even exist, is not going to have it fitted.... but the absence of said gizmo's now marks the car as "unsafe". It can't be, can it?

Worse than the worse than that, the criteria for what gizmo makes the car safe is decided by NCAP and there's an obscure correlation between what gizmo makes the "required" list and the actual road accident stats.

So, NCAP might decide that in 2019 an electronic cock-washer is mandatory because one person was injured last year whilst scratching their balls... but they ignore the 5 million seriously killed because a driver is dicking about with their iDrive instead of actually... you know.. "paying attention". Having the iDrive doesn't affect NCAP... but no cock washer means your car is the new Trabant in terms of "road safety".

I'm not buying that. NCAP needs to do better, or they won't be taken seriously... which undermines their so-earnest "road safety" message.

I'd suggest NCAP introduces a Passive safety and an Active safety score, much like they already do with the "pedestrian safety" sub-rating, rather than re-testing cars that could not have predicted what gizmo they needed to have fitted in order to pass a "safety" test years later. At the moment, the "test" is flawed and not just a little disingenuous.


Ralf S.