I potentially scuffed someone's car - after advice...

[AndyRKett]

The scenario is completely understandable. OP doesn't even know there was an incident, and is simply being a decent human being and taking another employee at their word. Now if there's a claim, I'm sure he will report it promptly once that's made clear to him.

Totally agree with you here and I know he is just trying to be a good guy and do the decent thing, though this is when people get screwed over by those who are not quite so honorable.

Insurance getting canceled is not alarmist. I know of many such cases where it has happened and I have a good friend who is a fraud investigator for one of the big insurance companies. People offering to pay for damage in an accident and no put it through the insurance can be viewed as fraud and is enough to get your policy cancelled, usually when the agreement all goes pear shaped and the insurance company gets stuck trying to work out who said what to who

 

[Twotone2]

OP report this to insurance company and let them deal with it, unfortunately you've got a nutter.

I had similar to this years ago, I ran into the back of a guy on the motorway (minor bump in almost stationary traffic) anyway I offered to pay him my excess at the time which was £50 so he said fine and I heard no more about it for about four months when he called me out of the blue and left a voicemail to get in touch with him which I did but I spoke to a woman and left a message.

There years later he turned up at my door on a Sunday afternoon waving a quote for £300 for damage to his car which he said I'd cause the car was an old Datsun Previa (I think from memory, this was about 30 years ago) and demanding the £300, so I told him to eff off.

That was just the start, it ended up, funnily enough me getting refused credit from a Fiat dealer when I tried to buy an Panda for my wife (weird how life works) as he'd got a decree against me unknown to me, anyway I handed the whole thing over to my then insurance company and they appointed a solicitor and he recalled the decree against me and the other guy got £650 in compensation from the insurance company and they obviously paid the legal costs which must have run into thousands.

I also employed a solicitor when this all started and he eventually advised me to contact the insurer, they accepted the case because I had employed a solicitor initially (I'd no idea I could go back to the insurance company after such a long time) but the solicitor just made things worse because he sent the guy a cheque for £50 and it was returned uncashed which should have set the alarm bells ringing.

Basically the guy hounded me for another year before he got his money.

I think I've still got the paperwork.

Tony

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Totally agree with you here and I know he is just trying to be a good guy and do the decent thing, though this is when people get screwed over by those who are not quite so honorable.

Insurance getting canceled is not alarmist. I know of many such cases where it has happened and I have a good friend who is a fraud investigator for one of the big insurance companies. People offering to pay for damage in an accident and no put it through the insurance can be viewed as fraud and is enough to get your policy cancelled, usually when the agreement all goes pear shaped and the insurance company gets stuck trying to work out who said what to who

I wrote quite specifically that the OP has no evidence that there even was an incident to report. This is not an open road incident where parties initially agree not to involve insurers and then it goes pear-shaped.
As to fraud, by whom please? Your mate may be a fraud investigator but you initially stated that it may be in contravention of the terms and conditions of the OP's policy, now we're taking fraud. That's quite some escalation.

 

[Sausage]

Again - if there is no trace of money being offered (no emails, texts, recorded phone calls) or money being transferred (bank transfer, paypal payment), then how can it even be proved that someone offered and followed through with a goodwill / 'admission of guilt' payment or whatever you want to call it.

It was agreed that I'd give him £60 with nobody else around. If I follow through it will be a cash payment. I have said to him I have no idea if I hit his car or not, so it is essentially a goodwill payment and that I am trusting his instincts.

I am happy to not give him any money, he isn't too much of a concern to me, doesn't work same shift as me and works in a different sector to me. I'd barely come across the guy in day to day work. So if he was a bit crappy about me not handing over money - then I won't have to worry about facing him daily. If it's not worth the risk giving him the £60, then I'd just say to him that the £60 was a goodwill gesture, but I have been advised not to hand anything over as it is an 'admission of guilt' and can open up 'a can of worms', so it's not sensible for me to do so.... this is also a good way of getting out of throwing a £60 goodwill gesture down the drain..... I think he would have to understand my position.....but.....

then he might just go the insurance route.... but surely my insurance company would just throw the case out. There's not enough evidence. I'd say I have no idea what happened to his car, he'd have no CCTV, no witnesses, no decent photo evidence.... he'd surely have no chance of getting anything - but if you guys think different - please let me know.

 

[Sausage]

I wrote quite specifically that the OP has no evidence that there even was an incident to report. This is not an open road incident where parties initially agree not to involve insurers and then it goes pear-shaped.

True, as far as I am aware I have not hit his car. I do not know what happened to his car. For all I know he did it on the way to work that morning.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

You've told people from your workplace about the offer. There's plenty of evidence, so you are where you are.

My speech to him face to face would be something along the lines of...

Look mate, I took you at your word as a colleague and made an offer of the amount you asked for purely as a goodwill gesture. If you want to take it to settle this on that basis let's shake hands now. If not, then we will have to put it in the hands of the insurers so can I have your details please.

My strong suspicion is he will back off and take it. Confirm it by text between you and hand over the cash. Either way you know where you are and can move on.

 

[AndyRKett]

I wrote quite specifically that the OP has no evidence that there even was an incident to report. This is not an open road incident where parties initially agree not to involve insurers and then it goes pear-shaped.
As to fraud, by whom please? Your mate may be a fraud investigator but you initially stated that it may be in contravention of the terms and conditions of the OP's policy, now we're taking fraud. That's quite some escalation.

It can be deemed fraudulent to withhold information from the insurance company about an accident. Paying off the claimant so you don’t have to declare it.

That is fraud in the insurance companies books. And my you get triggered quick!

Next time you take out a policy and don’t declare this to the new insurer, you’ve committed fraud again.

Guess what insurance companies all talk to each other these days as well to prevent fraud and once you’ve had a policy cancelled it can be extremely difficult or expensive to get another policy else where as cancellations usually mean you’ve done something pretty bad

Better to just report it to the insurance co to begin with and let them deal with it they do know what they’re doing

Again - if there is no trace of money being offered (no emails, texts, recorded phone calls) or money being transferred (bank transfer, paypal payment), then how can it even be proved that someone offered and followed through with a goodwill / 'admission of guilt' payment or whatever you want to call it

Because seemingly half the office seem to know the agreement. So you don’t have to have things in writing only someone willing to confirm what they know.

Just make sure if you go the route of not giving him anything you consistently state you “DID NOT HIT HIS CAR”

No “I’m not sure” no “it could have been” no “I possibly did” because any acknowledgment that you’re not sure weakens your position if it goes the insurance route say to your insurance company you did not hit his car.

 

[Twotone2]

then he might just go the insurance route.... but surely my insurance company would just throw the case out. There's not enough evidence. I'd say I have no idea what happened to his car, he'd have no CCTV, no witnesses, no decent photo evidence.... he'd surely have no chance of getting anything - but if you guys think different - please let me know.

Your insurance company will pay out mate they don't judge when it comes down to money or saving it.

The last thing they want is some protracted legal dispute regarding a minor bump in a car park,.

BTW if the car park is private then yer man is onto plumbs.

Do yourself a favour and report this to them and let them deal with it that's what you pay your insurance premiums for.

Also a woman ran into the back of me, no damage but I reported it to my insurance company at the time and guess what? Yip my premiums increased cause I'd been in an accident, that's just the way it is and it cost me £50 when I was completely innocent and sitting at traffic lights stationary but if something had come out of it then I was covered but nothing ever did, no doubt however the woman's insurance renewal went up too but frankly that's not my business.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

It can be deemed fraudulent to withhold information from the insurance company about an accident. Paying off the claimant so you don’t have to declare it.

That is fraud in the insurance companies books. And my you get triggered quick!

Next time you take out a policy and don’t declare this to the new insurer, you’ve committed fraud again.

Guess what insurance companies all talk to each other these days as well to prevent fraud and once you’ve had a policy cancelled it can be extremely difficult or expensive to get another policy else where as cancellations usually mean you’ve done something pretty bad

Better to just report it to the insurance co to begin with and let them deal with it they do know what they’re doing

Because seemingly half the office seem to know the agreement. So you don’t have to have things in writing only someone willing to confirm what they know.

Just make sure if you go the route of not giving him anything you consistently state you “DID NOT HIT HIS CAR”

No “I’m not sure” no “it could have been” no “I possibly did” because any acknowledgment that you’re not sure weakens your position if it goes the insurance route say to your insurance company you did not hit his car.

The evidence of an accident is what, exactly, just to remind me? That's the point I made which you ignored to make a different statement.

And no need for the personal remarks thanks, there's only one person using emotive language here. Hangman and extortionist was how you described the OP's work colleague on your first post on the thread, and have continued in similar vein.

 

[StevenRB45]

The evidence of an accident is what, exactly, just to remind me? That's the point I made which you ignored to make a different statement.

In terms of evidence, there's a payment of 60 quid between parties.

Which third party could say supports their version of events...as if it wasn't true why would OP have agreed to pay a contribution to damage?

A payment that's been discussed on a public forum....in the office and with the third party.

This is why I think it's a bad idea.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

In terms of evidence, there's a payment of 60 quid between parties.

Which third party could say supports their version of events...as if it wasn't true why would OP have agreed to pay a contribution to damage?

A payment that's been discussed on a public forum....in the office and with the third party.

This is why I think it's a bad idea.

But there's no payment, only a discussion between fellow employees, and the circumstances and motivation for the discussion and goodwill offer are clearly explainable - OP has explained them on here. It's clearly not an admission of liability. Things are more nuanced and not as black and white as you paint them.

 

[StevenRB45]

But there's no payment, only a discussion between fellow employees, and the circumstances and motivation for the discussion and goodwill offer are clearly explainable - OP has explained them on here. It's clearly not an admission of liability. Things are more nuanced and not as black and white as you paint them.

Insurance has no nuance, it's fault or none fault...or 50/50 which is also fault.

None fault means all costs were reclaimed from the other party simple as that...all claims are listed as pending fault until all losses are recovered.

If you have paid costs...you are at fault so if in future this bloke decides that due to OP no longer speaking to him and not paying the amount he has asked for to take it the insurer it's pretty dodgy ground to be on and leaves no real room for your insurer to argue on your behalf. Given his story can be entirely truthfully "they said they'd pay".


Obviously we are very much in the hypothetical and hopefully he'll take the money and go away.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Insurance has no nuance, it's fault or none fault...or 50/50 which is also fault.

None fault means all costs were reclaimed from the other party simple as that...all claims are listed as pending fault until all losses are recovered.

If you have paid costs...you are at fault so if in future this bloke decides that due to OP no longer speaking to him and not paying the amount he has asked for to take it the insurer it's pretty dodgy ground to be on and leaves no real room for your insurer to argue on your behalf. Given his story can be entirely truthfully "they said they'd pay".


Obviously we are very much in the hypothetical and hopefully he'll take the money and go away.

I'm not sure what the relevance of raising insurance settlements is in the context of our discussion.

I don't agree with your statement:

If you have paid costs...you are at fault...

To repeat, OP, without admission of liability, has made an offer to a colleague. Assuming this is accepted, the OP will give the £ to the colleague once he has confirmed that his offer is accepted and that's the end of the matter. There is now a contract to that effect. Offer, acceptance and consideration are present. If there was any further pursuit, then the contract is in place as settlement of matters.

That said, I think this will probably run - not sure why OP has discontinued contact by blocking his colleague, but if that is at an end as far as he is concerned, then it needs to be put into the insurers' hands with an accompanying explanation of what's happened so far, as I indicated last night.

 

[StevenRB45]

I'm not sure what the relevance of raising insurance settlements is in the context of our discussion.

Who do you think this is going it end up with if the other party isn't happy with the 60 quid and OP has stopped communicating?

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Who do you think this is going it end up with if the other party isn't happy with the 60 quid and OP has stopped communicating?

The rest of my post refers, clearly.

I wrote that because, as I said, I was not sure why you raised it in the context of our previous discussion - it seemed a random point to make, and unconnected to what we'd been discussing.

 

[StevenRB45]

The rest of my post refers, clearly.

I wrote that because, as I said, I was not sure why you raised it in the context of our previous discussion - it seemed a random point to make, and unconnected to what we'd been discussing.

Yep..so that was the relevance surely if based on all the other information given it seems likely it's ending up at the insurer...then the impact of already paying the other party on that process is relevant.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Yep..so that was the relevance surely if based on all the other information given it seems likely it's ending up at the insurer...then the impact of already paying the other party on that process is relevant.

About which we have a fundamental disagreement, for reasons I have explained.

Good to disagree politely though

 

[Sausage]

You've told people from your workplace about the offer. There's plenty of evidence, so you are where you are.

My speech to him face to face would be something along the lines of...

Look mate, I took you at your word as a colleague and made an offer of the amount you asked for purely as a goodwill gesture. If you want to take it to settle this on that basis let's shake hands now. If not, then we will have to put it in the hands of the insurers so can I have your details please.

My strong suspicion is he will back off and take it. Confirm it by text between you and hand over the cash. Either way you know where you are and can move on.

I've told people that it is a goodwill gesture and that I don't even know if I hit his car or not. The evidence is not clear enough to determine it was me. The few people I have spoken to say that they wouldn't pay him anything due to the lack of evidence. I very much doubt this guy could get those people I have spoken with to side with him and give 'evidence' to his/my insurer, he won't even know who I have spoken to.

I believe he'll just take the money and go. Based on our meeting the other day he was fairly pleasant, other than obviously blaming me without good enough evidence. He showed me his car, told me he could get his 'bodywork friend' to do it for about £60, told me to go away and think about things and let him know.... as I think it's somewhat possible it was me, and I want him off my case, I said I'd give him the money - I don't think he expected me to be so fair with him.... he said I was being reasonable.... - I am being much more than reasonable. I think he knows most people would have told him to bugga off.

I think the guy is one of these dudes that's precious about his car and can't live with any minor scratches or dents or paint issues anywhere on his car. He probably gets his car valeted once a month. He knows some mobile bodywork guy - I wonder how many times he's called him out over the years.

I am not concerned. I will likely see him next week to resolve everything.