I potentially scuffed someone's car - after advice...

[Sausage]

Hi,

I parked up at work today in a small car park at the back of our office. It's an awkward car park, with no marked out spaces. I reversed into the space next to a parked car - no concerns....

I come out of work and there is a note on my car saying 'you have damaged my rear wheel arch - please ring me'.... the car had gone, the person obviously drove home....

I did not have any inclination that I had hit this car when reversing into the space, I didn't hear, feel, or see my car touch his/hers. I did have to reverse into the space a couple of times before I was happy, but yeah - there was no indication that I'd hit the car next to me.

I have checked the wheel arch/rear corner of my car and cannot see any obvious scuffs, dents, or paint marks. There is 1 light scratch on the wheel arch that could be a sign of a slight scraping with something, but if that's the result to my car - I can't imagine the accuser's car has much of a scratch on it.

As it's also a 24/7 office that I work in, right now - for all I know, this is quite possibly a night shift worker's vehicle. I work during the daytime. If he is a night shift worker - anyone could have parked in that space over multiple hours before I did....

Anyhow....

I am going to message him asking for a photo. I am open minded about tapping his car. If there is the same colour paint from my car on his wheel arch and the scratch is the same height as the scratch on my car I'll consider handing over some cash. Based on the scratch on my car, the scratch on his car will likely be minimal and probably be a simple case of using some T-Cut to remove any paint transferred from my car. His car was nothing special, probably a 10 year old Mondeo as far as I remember.

Some questions for you guys:

Assuming the damage is mild...

1. Would you just expect the complainant to T-Cut the scratch out and just accept the slight damage that remains. Would you buy the T-Cut for them if they didn't have any.

2. If the complainant requests that you pay them enough to get the scratch fixed at a paint shop how much would you hand over for a mild 1 inch, barely visible scratch?

3. If you were only 50:50 on whether you had scratched their car would you give them anything at all, or just hand over say £20 as a peace-maker.

 

[porta]

Unless he/she has proof that you caused the damage, and you’re confident you didn’t, I’d be tempted to ignore it as there are lots of scams/scammers out there

 

[bugsymike]

Most insurance companies say , first do not admit liability.
Does the driver of the other vehicle have incontrovertible proof, video, witness statements etc?
Is it a private car park?
Do not offer to "T cut his vehicle", that is admitting liability.
Looking at your car are you sure any marks are related to his car?
Could he have caught your car on driving out?
If between you you agree to settle without involving insurance companies etc. Get a copy signed by both sides saying in full and final payment or something like that.
If it went through the insurance companies there is a good chance both policies could be adversely affected, if his car is old just the cost of painting a couple of panels could "write his car off". Also what may or may not be a small scratch by the time he has taken it to his "friendly" bodyshop could have expanded to a large quote.
I recall a joke many years ago where a driver came back to find their car damaged and a note under the wiper arm which said "several people witnessed me drive into your car and think I am writing my contact details for you, BUT I AM NOT!"

 

[Sausage]

Most insurance companies say , first do not admit liability.
Does the driver of the other vehicle have incontrovertible proof, video, witness statements etc?
Is it a private car park?
Do not offer to "T cut his vehicle", that is admitting liability.
Looking at your car are you sure any marks are related to his car?
Could he have caught your car on driving out?
If between you you agree to settle without involving insurance companies etc. Get a copy signed by both sides saying in full and final payment or something like that.
If it went through the insurance companies there is a good chance both policies could be adversely affected, if his car is old just the cost of painting a couple of panels could "write his car off". Also what may or may not be a small scratch by the time he has taken it to his "friendly" bodyshop could have expanded to a large quote.
I recall a joke many years ago where a driver came back to find their car damaged and a note under the wiper arm which said "several people witnessed me drive into your car and think I am writing my contact details for you, BUT I AM NOT!"

Thanks for this advice.

I sent them a text message saying that I did not see, hear, or feel that I hit your car and I don't see any obvious damage to the rear of my car, but that I'll happily take a look at a photo...

They don't have 100% proof. It's pretty impossible that anyone would have seen if I did hit his car. I don't believe there are any cameras pointing there either.

It is a private car park - why do you ask? It's owned by the company I work for. It's highly likely that this is a fellow employee, but that may have a different shift to me. Although, it is known that some people that don't even work for the company sometimes use our car park - they should not be. I hope it's someone that shouldn't be parking there. Partly because I won't have to deal with another employee giving me crap and partly because I can potentially get management to clamp his car if he parks there again.

The problem is, whoever this guy is, he knows my car now. If I don't choose to tell him who I am - he could easily find out, either by waiting for me to come out to my car, or by asking a manager to find out who owns the FIAT with reg no. XXXXXXXXX.

I am not sure it's worth him going through insurance, the damage is going to be extremely minor if I did hit his vehicle. I reckon it's going to be mainly a case of removing some transferred paint off his car through T-Cut. But as you say - I won't offer him some T-Cut, but I might recommend it to him without admitting any fault.

To be clear, I genuinely have no idea if I knocked his car. I can agree that it's possible I scraped his car very lightly, so lightly I didn't notice it happening and so lightly that there's no damage or no obvious damage to my car other than a light scratch where some top layer of paint is not present on my car.

True - he could have caught my car on driving out and then blamed me.

If the photo he sends me shows paint that's the same colour as my car on his wheel arch - I will recommend he T-Cuts it out and then takes another photo afterwards to reveal the damage underneath. Is there anything wrong with handing over some cash just so I don't have this guy on my case. I don't plan on handing over much more than £30. If I hand over cash then there's no evidence of admitting guilt.

For the time being I thing I'll have to park away from the office as no doubt this guy will be looking out for my car. You never know what kind of nutcases you could be dealing with.

 

[portland_bill]

A few points.
1. Just because you've just noticed damage, does not mean it has just been done. The other guy has noticed damage, and assumed it was you, because you were parked next to him.
This is why I advise a full walk around at each return to your vehicle, so new damage is noticed immediately, not a week later.
2. If the damage has just been done, the perpetrator is parked as far away as possible, not left next to it. As a small child, when we break something, our instinctive thoughts are along the lines of, "did anyone see?" If someone knew they'd hit him, they'll likely look around, then quietly move to another spot. Then you come along and park in the space, to be blamed.
3. If you parked without adjusting position, and the cars were not touching, unlikely to have made contact, unless you went in forwards with a big sweep and wiped it. (Another reason to reverse in)

 

[Sausage]

A few points.
1. Just because you've just noticed damage, does not mean it has just been done. The other guy has noticed damage, and assumed it was you, because you were parked next to him.
This is why I advise a full walk around at each return to your vehicle, so new damage is noticed immediately, not a week later.
2. If the damage has just been done, the perpetrator is parked as far away as possible, not left next to it. As a small child, when we break something, our instinctive thoughts are along the lines of, "did anyone see?" If someone knew they'd hit him, they'll likely look around, then quietly move to another spot. Then you come along and park in the space, to be blamed.
3. If you parked without adjusting position, and the cars were not touching, unlikely to have made contact, unless you went in forwards with a big sweep and wiped it. (Another reason to reverse in)

Yeah, with point 2.... I was thinking - If I thought I'd hit his car at the time I would have likely assessed the damage and maybe tried to buff it out myself. If not then I'd have left a note or gone and parked somewhere else as if nothing had happened.

I remained parked there as I didn't have any inkling that I'd hit his car and therefore I didn't leave a note either.

I still think there is a chance I did 'hit' his car, but it's literally going to be 0.3mm depth of paint versus 0.3mm depth of paint over a 1 to 2 inch by 2mm patch of bodywork, it's that innocuous and that's why I wouldn't have noticed any 'hit'. I am pretty sure it's going to be a T-Cut job to fix it. It's going to be something that I wouldn't have personally complained about, but instead T-cutted it out. But this is probably a male Karen.

I had an MOT once and picked my car up, noticed an obvious dent and paint missing on my bonnet, but I could have no certainty the MOT guys did it and I didn't complain to them. I just went home and used one of those crappy touch up paint kits to 'fix' it - it doesn't look great.... but my point is, with minor things like this that you can't 100% know who or what caused it - just fix it yourself....but no - I have got someone that's making a fuss.

 

[Sausage]

He got back to me with a reply over text saying "You were too close to my car!, you would park like that in a car park!, you slightly caught my wheel arch! I will try to see you tomorrow!".

I don't know why he keeps banging on about me being parked close to his car - I was literally as far over to the side as possible. It is tight, they aren't marked out spaces, but 2 cars always park side-by-side in that area. It's normal for the cars to be close together. He might as well be saying he should have parked more to the side to leave more room for a 2nd car.

As I suspected - if I 'hit' his car it would be pretty mild contact....he claims I 'slightly caught his wheel arch'.... sounds to me like a T-Cut job.

I am not too keen on his messages with all the exclamation marks, I noticed on the message he left on my car that at the bottom it had 'If you don't call me' scribbled out... like he was going to write some threat on it, but changed his mind.

I am not arranging to meet the guy, I have requested a photo and had nothing back. I feel he wants to meet me just to have a go at me. He'll probably be able to ask management who owns X car and come and find me.

If the roles were reversed I'd just T-Cut it out and move on. Seems that whoever this guy is - it's someone with an attitude who loves arguments.

 

[AndyRKett]

He got back to me with a reply over text saying "You were too close to my car!, you would park like that in a car park!, you slightly caught my wheel arch! I will try to see you tomorrow!".

I don't know why he keeps banging on about me being parked close to his car - I was literally as far over to the side as possible. It is tight, they aren't marked out spaces, but 2 cars always park side-by-side in that area. It's normal for the cars to be close together. He might as well be saying he should have parked more to the side to leave more room for a 2nd car.

As I suspected - if I 'hit' his car it would be pretty mild contact....he claims I 'slightly caught his wheel arch'.... sounds to me like a T-Cut job.

I am not too keen on his messages with all the exclamation marks, I noticed on the message he left on my car that at the bottom it had 'If you don't call me' scribbled out... like he was going to write some threat on it, but changed his mind.

I am not arranging to meet the guy, I have requested a photo and had nothing back. I feel he wants to meet me just to have a go at me. He'll probably be able to ask management who owns X car and come and find me.

If the roles were reversed I'd just T-Cut it out and move on. Seems that whoever this guy is - it's someone with an attitude who loves arguments.

The tone of the messages suggests you really don’t want to get involved.

I’d keep pushing for a picture, if he’s not supplying a picture then is there anything to even discuss?

Arguably if he is saying things like “you parked too close” is what he is really saying is you were close and when he moved his car he actually clipped you?

You can even raise the point that if the space was clear when you arrived what’s to say someone else hadn’t already clipped his car and left before you got there.

I’d maybe ask “we’re the cars touching when you returned to the car” if he says no then he has basically cleared you of any liability that he could prove in the absence of any CCTV.

It sounds though like he might just be spoiling for an argument

If he can’t provide you with any evidence or picture of any contact between the two cars or any evidence of damage then my reply might be “there is no damage, no evidence of any contact, what do you want from this?” See if you can find out his motivation

Don’t agree to meet him in person as you’ll have no record of any conversation and he might start claiming that you’ve admitted to hitting his car

 

[StevenRB45]

Literally a case of he needs to provide evidence...

To be fair, you could say you saw him drive into a bollard...if there's no CCTV there's precisely as much proof.

He sounds a bit "Aggy" so er take it easy I'd say if this was the work car park. Admit nothing given as far as it can be proved you did nothing and leave it at that.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

He got back to me with a reply over text saying "You were too close to my car!, you would park like that in a car park!, you slightly caught my wheel arch! I will try to see you tomorrow!".

I don't know why he keeps banging on about me being parked close to his car - I was literally as far over to the side as possible. It is tight, they aren't marked out spaces, but 2 cars always park side-by-side in that area. It's normal for the cars to be close together. He might as well be saying he should have parked more to the side to leave more room for a 2nd car.

As I suspected - if I 'hit' his car it would be pretty mild contact....he claims I 'slightly caught his wheel arch'.... sounds to me like a T-Cut job.

I am not too keen on his messages with all the exclamation marks, I noticed on the message he left on my car that at the bottom it had 'If you don't call me' scribbled out... like he was going to write some threat on it, but changed his mind.

I am not arranging to meet the guy, I have requested a photo and had nothing back. I feel he wants to meet me just to have a go at me. He'll probably be able to ask management who owns X car and come and find me.

If the roles were reversed I'd just T-Cut it out and move on. Seems that whoever this guy is - it's someone with an attitude who loves arguments.

People blurt things in the heat of the moment. People are often not skilled communicators. People use lots of!!!!!!! Text is a notably bad medium and robs context.

Arrange to meeting the car park and take a look. It's a fellow employee, so you & he will both be aware of the need to resolve whatever it is amicably.

 

[bugsymike]

People blurt things in the heat of the moment. People are often not skilled communicators. People use lots of!!!!!!! Text is a notably bad medium and robs context.

Arrange to meeting the car park and take a look. It's a fellow employee, so you & he will both be aware of the need to resolve whatever it is amicably.

Maybe take a third party with you as a witness if things get heated or out of hand.
Is there a security man or someone responsible for the parking area from your company, that way if the person is identified as not working for your company then they don't have a leg to stand one. However if you both come to an amicable solution that third party is witness also.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Let's not get it out of context - it's (at most) a minor car park scuff. Escalation begats escalation, iyswim.

 

[bugsymike]

Let's not get it out of context - it's (at most) a minor car park scuff. Escalation begats escalation, iyswim.

I agree, just OP sounds a little vulnerable.

 

[eeeno]

Damage can happen very easily, you don't really hear or feel anything. You just turn the wheel too much and that's all you need to do.

I notice how fast people park so it's just an accident waiting to happen. It could have happened just anywhere, not just at work. Some drivers can't even get their vehicles straight. Some kid got her very small Peugeot sideways next to my car and it was nearly impossible to reverse without making a contact with the car. It was horrendous seeing her park, she was steering and going back and forth just very close to my car trying to get the car straight. And she was not even some kind of addict or drunk.

Ten year old car usually has scratches everywhere so seems like a good idea to get a new coat of paint to the car at your expense. Basically you can kindly just deny and ask him to prove it. Then park far away from his car.

 

[Sausage]

Literally a case of he needs to provide evidence...

To be fair, you could say you saw him drive into a bollard...if there's no CCTV there's precisely as much proof.

He sounds a bit "Aggy" so er take it easy I'd say if this was the work car park. Admit nothing given as far as it can be proved you did nothing and leave it at that.

Thanks everyone for their feedback.

I spoke with him face to face and he was ok, apart from basically putting the blame on me even though there's no way he can be sure it was me. He showed me the damage - as expected it is minor. Tiny amount of paintwork missing from wheel arch and a small 'dink' next to it.

Again - I have no idea if I caused this damage. I'll honestly say that there is a chance it could have been me as it was a tight space, of which I was focusing on parking as far to the other side as possible, rather than worrying about where his car was. So I am ok in saying - there is a possibility I tapped his car, but I never felt/heard/saw anything at the time, so I cannot be sure at all either way.

He asked for £60 - £70. I am someone that doesn't like to have things playing on their mind, there is at least a chance I caused the damage, and I don't know what the guy will do if I told him to bugga off. So I asked him if he'd be ok with £60, he said yes.... this was agreed verbally and not over text/phone or with any witnesses. So even if he said to an insurer that I had offered money then it's just his word.

Then, after speaking to colleagues and a manager about it - they all said that I shouldn't pay him anything. Telling me there is no concrete evidence that I had caused the damage and some were worrying that I was being extorted. People were telling me to basically tell the guy to F-off.

Still - I just wanted to get this out the way, money isn't that much of a concern to me, peace of mind is. I went to find him the next day, but couldn't. Someone told him I was looking for him and he text me saying 'cheers for looking for me, I didn't expect money so soon, I need to see the bodyworks guy first, please phone me to arrange for when we can meet and talk'....

This pissed me off, as one of the main reasons I am handing over some cash is to get this out the way so I can move on mentally and not have to worry about it. I have already agreed to give him cash even though I have no idea if I caused this damage. It comes across as if he might ask me for more money if the quote is higher. I also don't know why he needs me to phone him so we can arrange to meet and talk....it's simple - he knows where I work in the office - he can come and get the £60.

I messaged him back telling him how there is no clear evidence I hit his car, not even any paint transfer to each other's cars, and mentioned the fact that he starts work 5 hours before me and there are 60+ people arriving to work before I even arrive to work, anyone could have parked there or attempted to park there before I arrived. Without directly saying so, I was essentially telling him that he's lucky to get £60 out of me. He can come and get the £60 - take it or leave it. My insurance company wouldn't pay him a penny as there is no CCTV evidence, I am not going to admit fault to my insurer, there is no photo evidence of my car parked touching his, there are no witnesses.

In the same situation with the roles reversed I would have never just assumed that it must be the person parked next to me that hit my car, unless there was damage to their car too or some paint transfer. I would just have to live with it. I have taken my car to a garage before and when I collected it I saw an obvious dent and paint missing from an area on my car, I couldn't be certain it had happened whilst in that garage so I never accused them. I just patched it up (badly) myself.

Sorry for such a long post - just updating. I assume most people will agree with my work colleagues that I shouldn't be handing over anything, but in the circumstances, with the guy working in the same building and not knowing what kind of nutjob he is, I'd rather just keep the guy somewhat happy and have the peace of mind that I can go out to my car at the end of the day without him waiting for me or find my car has been keyed.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

OP said lots of other stuff, then said this:

Sorry for such a long post - just updating. I assume most people will agree with my work colleagues that I shouldn't be handing over anything, but in the circumstances, with the guy working in the same building and not knowing what kind of nutjob he is, I'd rather just keep the guy somewhat happy and have the peace of mind that I can go out to my car at the end of the day without him waiting for me or find my car has been keyed.

This is the salient point and I think you're doing the sensible thing.

 

[bugsymike]

As long as you have peace of mind it is sorted, that is the main thing.
The only different thing in those circumstances I would have done was to get him to sign a bit of paper saying that it was sorted and no further claim being made.

 

[jackwhoo]

Oh no, Sorry you are going through this.....
Seriously consider taking the stance that you are now 100% positive you did not touch his car in anyway whatsoever and stick to that position.

From everything you have written regarding no paint transfer , no sign of any similar damage on your car etc it is almost certain the damage existed before you parked.

If you have a good manager / good human resources person at your place of work tell them the facts and that he is making you uncomfortable at work.

Best wishes

Jack

 

[AndyRKett]

I messaged him back telling him how there is no clear evidence I hit his car, not even any paint transfer to each other's cars, and mentioned the fact that he starts work 5 hours before me and there are 60+ people arriving to work before I even arrive to work, anyone could have parked there or attempted to park there before I arrived. Without directly saying so, I was essentially telling him that he's lucky to get £60 out of me. He can come and get the £60 - take it or leave it. My insurance company wouldn't pay him a penny as there is no CCTV evidence, I am not going to admit fault to my insurer, there is no photo evidence of my car parked touching his, there are no witnesses.

And what was his reply to this ?


I have a feeling now you've opened Pandora's box and he's going to come after you for more money.

Do you really have peace of mind if you've paid him £60 and he's wanting more ?

A couple weeks down the road and he keeps putting on the pressure for more and more money are you going to keep paying it for 'Peace of mind?'

if it did end up in the hands of the insurance then you have now fully admitted liability where there was no reason to believe you were liable.

There should have been no discussion

"as far as I am aware I have not made contact with your car, plenty of cars will have come and gone through the course of the day before I came along and there is absolutely no marks or damage on my car that corresponds with yours, Sorry you feel I hit your car but it was not me!"

That would have been more than adequate to resolve things. You work in the same building presumably for the same company, it would be idiotic for him to then take revenge as the motive would be obvious.

I would go as far to say that what you have agreed is really stupid!

I might be wrong he might take his £60 and bugger off but given this

I need to see the bodyworks guy first, please phone me to arrange for when we can meet and talk'....

I think you've massively shot yourself in the foot.

 

[StevenRB45]

I would love to see the "repair" they are going to effect for 60 quid.

Wouldn't even get chips away to your door nevermind anything at a proper body shop.

While not going as strong as Andy's language paying him anything could be seen as an admission of fault.