Technical How to drive dual logic correctly?

[Most Easterly Pandas]

My 2009 Golf is forwards for changing up. Feels so wrong.

But its a Golf :nerner:

 

[44sunsets]

Question for Dualogic drivers -- do you put the car into neutral and pull the handbrake up when you're stopped at a long-ish traffic light? Is there any point in doing this, or does the gearbox handle everything on its own?

I don't use Start/Stop at the moment as I have it turned off, but maybe I should enable it...

 

[pmay58]

If its a long stop I let it turn off and then put in Neutral so I no longer have to keep the brake pedal depressed.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Question for Dualogic drivers -- do you put the car into neutral and pull the handbrake up when you're stopped at a long-ish traffic light? Is there any point in doing this, or does the gearbox handle everything on its own?

I don't use Start/Stop at the moment as I have it turned off, but maybe I should enable it...

Normally leave in 1st and put the handbrake on (as you should, far to many keeping their foot in the brake and buring out the retina of the following driver ).

Sometimes if a little while will turn the engine off, and follow normal start up procedure.

 

[RobinPJ]

Question for Dualogic drivers -- do you put the car into neutral and pull the handbrake up when you're stopped at a long-ish traffic light? Is there any point in doing this, or does the gearbox handle everything on its own?

I don't use Start/Stop at the moment as I have it turned off, but maybe I should enable it...

Never. Fiddling around with an auto at the lights is like having a dog and barking yourself.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Never. Fiddling around with an auto at the lights is like having a dog and barking yourself.

 

[RobinPJ]

You have an auto so that you don't have to change gears for yourself.* So why would you bother doing so when you stop at traffic lights when there is no need to?




* Actually this is not strictly true in my case - I have an auto because my wife cannot drive a manual.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

You have an auto so that you don't have to change gears for yourself.* So why would you bother doing so when you stop at traffic lights when there is no need to?




* Actually this is not strictly true in my case - I have an auto because my wife cannot drive a manual.

Changing gear is different to moving from 1st to Neutral, or Drive to Neutral / Park as it is in conventional auto's. Its a common sense thing to do IMO when sitting for a long time. Stationary you don't sit in 1st with foot on clutch for 5 min at a long set of lights, or at least I don't, you put it into neutral.

 

[Mercky]

So is sitting at lights with your foot on the brake in a DL effectively the same as having your foot on the clutch in a manual? Do we know anything about typical clutch life of manual versus DL?

 

[ahmett]

So is sitting at lights with your foot on the brake in a DL effectively the same as having your foot on the clutch in a manual? Do we know anything about typical clutch life of manual versus DL?

Yes exactly.
Clutch depressed.
Typical clutch life? So far mine is ok at 80,000 km, so I would say clutch life the same as a manual. If you are abusing the clutch the dualogics alert system will tell you so as mentioned in the dualogic supplement to the fiat 500 handbook.

 

[UFI]

So is sitting at lights with your foot on the brake in a DL effectively the same as having your foot on the clutch in a manual? Do we know anything about typical clutch life of manual versus DL?

It the same as (or actually is) sitting in gear, with the clutch in an brakes on. Keeping the clutch pedal in can cause the pressure plate springs to loose tension over time. If that happens the clutch won't release fully.

DL clutches should last longer as the computer rev matches, while most manual drivers don't even try. But if both are driven properly there won't be much in it. The clutch should be good for the life or the car either way.

 

[ahmett]

It the same as (or actually is) sitting in gear, with the clutch in an brakes on. Keeping the clutch pedal in can cause the pressure plate springs to loose tension over time. If that happens the clutch won't release fully.

DL clutches should last longer as the computer rev matches, while most manual drivers don't even try. But if both are driven properly there won't be much in it. The clutch should be good for the life or the car either way.

UFI I really doubt the clutch will last 300k miles especially if mainly driven in town! From how I feel I think I would have to change my clutch by around the 120,000 miles mark. Not the end of the world, got quoted 350 Euros all in for the clutch change including the dualogic realignment on the diagnostics (Bosch Service not Fiat main dealer).

 

[bgunn]

DL clutches should last longer as the computer rev matches, while most manual drivers don't even try. But if both are driven properly there won't be much in it. The clutch should be good for the life or the car either way.

Rev matching (or double declutching) won't increase the life of the clutch - you're mixing that up with the synchromesh life..

 

[UFI]

UFI I really doubt the clutch will last 300k miles especially if mainly driven in town!

I really doubt your car will make it to 300K miles. The typical life of most modern small cars is about ~200k miles. It only takes a minor but expensive failure to send them to the scrap yard

Rev matching (or double declutching) won't increase the life of the clutch - you're mixing that up with the synchromesh life..

Not at all. The flywheel spins at engine speed, while the clutch plate spins at road speed. If you don't match revs there's slip, and slip is wear. While most wear comes from getting the car moving, anytime the clutch pedal is moving the clutch is wearing unless revs match road speed. Furthermore, matchless agressive driving will kill the throw bearing and while the gearbox is out, most people will also do the clutch.

 

[bgunn]

Not at all. The flywheel spins at engine speed, while the clutch plate spins at road speed. If you don't match revs there's slip, and slip is wear. While most wear comes from getting the car moving, anytime the clutch pedal is moving the clutch is wearing unless revs match road speed. Furthermore, matchless agressive driving will kill the throw bearing and while the gearbox is out, most people will also do the clutch.

Sorry, in my experience over 15 years of working on cars and bikes, rev matching (or not) certainly doesn't cause as much clutch wear as you might believe. Think about it - the relative difference in speeds between the flywheel/pressure plate and the clutch isn't that great during gear changes (unless you're comically bad at changing gear, and then CV joints and engine mounts will suffer more!).

However, when stationary and slipping the clutch, the engine will be running at 1200 to 1500 rpm or more (again, I'm referring to comically bad drivers) and the gearbox input speed will be virtually zero.

Might not be so much a problem in your end of the world, but I certainly see a good 50% of drivers riding the clutch to hold a car stationary at traffic lights in London - THAT is what kills a clutch.

 

[ahmett]

Sorry, in my experience over 15 years of working on cars and bikes, rev matching (or not) certainly doesn't cause as much clutch wear as you might believe. Think about it - the relative difference in speeds between the flywheel/pressure plate and the clutch isn't that great during gear changes (unless you're comically bad at changing gear, and then CV joints and engine mounts will suffer more!).

However, when stationary and slipping the clutch, the engine will be running at 1200 to 1500 rpm or more (again, I'm referring to comically bad drivers) and the gearbox input speed will be virtually zero.

Might not be so much a problem in your end of the world, but I certainly see a good 50% of drivers riding the clutch to hold a car stationary at traffic lights in London - THAT is what kills a clutch.

Bgunn you are absolutely right and I admit to sometimes riding the clutch unnecessarily waiting in traffic on an incline especially or when I am 'raring' to go. I am trying to cut it out as there is barely any reason to do so; its better just to keep the foot on the brake and accelerate when it is free to do so.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

UFI I really doubt the clutch will last 300k miles especially if mainly driven in town!

We've a maunal 2001 Yaris, 175k on the clock, original clutch

Might not be so much a problem in your end of the world, but I certainly see a good 50% of drivers riding the clutch to hold a car stationary at traffic lights in London - THAT is what kills a clutch.

Yep, far too many doing it, not even sure why, just comes across as incompetence imo.

 

[UFI]

Sorry, in my experience over 15 years of working on cars and bikes, rev matching (or not) certainly doesn't cause as much clutch wear as you might believe. Think about it - the relative difference in speeds between the flywheel/pressure plate and the clutch isn't that great during gear changes (unless you're comically bad at changing gear, and then CV joints and engine mounts will suffer more!).

However, when stationary and slipping the clutch, the engine will be running at 1200 to 1500 rpm or more (again, I'm referring to comically bad drivers) and the gearbox input speed will be virtually zero.

Might not be so much a problem in your end of the world, but I certainly see a good 50% of drivers riding the clutch to hold a car stationary at traffic lights in London - THAT is what kills a clutch.

We're not really in disagreement bgunn. But when you pull a clutch, surely you can't tell if it's harsh starts or harsh gearshifts that killed it (and no doubt if it's one then there'll also be the other)?

Startionary hard standing starts is without doubt the quickest way to kill a clutch (however, gentle slipping starts can be worse). But RPM has little to do with it. When you take off you have to accelerate the weight or the car via the clutch. When you change gears, you're only accelerating (spooling up) the weight of the engine internals. When downshifting 2-3 gears, the RPM difference could easily be 1500+ (easily the same as a stationary start).

Not much clutch riding here - everyone drives an auto.

 

[Lisas31777]

Huge issues with my 11reg Punto Evo - had to have new pads & disks at 16,000 miles now at 32,000 they are saying it might need a new clutch ! I have huge problems with car not changing into the right gear ever since having it!! Does anyone know what the life of a punto clutch should be ??????

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Huge issues with my 11reg Punto Evo - had to have new pads & disks at 16,000 miles

What sort of driving are you doing?

Does anyone know what the life of a punto clutch should be ??????

Again depends upon the driving the car is doing, and how its driven. You don't hold it on a hill with the accelerator do you?