Technical Hello and help me please

[osintseva]

500 2014 manual tis my granddaughters car and I am trying to fix an issue where if the hazard lights button is pushed the hazards come on but also the drivers window will go up if its down, if its up I can hear the motor in the door trying to go.
The hazards don't turn off if they are on and I press the hazard button to toggle off, I have to flick the indicators left and right until the hazards stop.

I have sliced open the rubber boot on the rear hatch loom and cant find any damaged wires, done similar on both doors and those wires look ok even though they are wrapped n tape. I have checked both fuse boxes for water and tested a jump lead from engine to the neg on the battery and also from a suspension leg bolt.



Its driving me nuts. I would be very grateful if anyone has a clue as to what it may be.

Happy Xmas all.

 

[chris3234]

No ones mentioned the BCM? the windows shouldn't work with the key out even if there was a short surely ?

They do for about 60s after shutting the engine off or until a door is opened







Have to ask the poster doe the window controls work after the car has been shut off for a while or do they shut down correctly?

 

[osintseva]

I cant see the drain holes under the wipers, do I have to remove the plastic cover that goes over that void. I cleaned a load of muck out from under .
Believe it or not I cant even find the BCM, I found a fuse box in the passengers shelf but thats all, is it near the clutch (RHD)? Is it under a screw on cover or clip on?

 

[steveras57]

The BCM is the fuse box under the parcel shelf!
Shelf and some of the dash screws have to be removed to get it out and it it might me covered by a metal plate with security bolts that need taking out! if un-clipping the connector blocks be care full as the clips are fragile and break easy! there are also to connectors on the back of it!

 

[osintseva]

Cheers for the info.

 

[varesecrazy]

I cant see the drain holes under the wipers, do I have to remove the plastic cover that goes over that void. I cleaned a load of muck out from under .

There are small black drain tubes hanging down into the engine bay

They are tucked into the corners..

They easily fill with leaf mould.. Can completely block

 

[osintseva]

Well I tried heating the BCM with a hairdryer, it got hot ok but no change.
Will find those tubes tomorrow

 

[jrkitching]

Historically..

Windows were constant power

That's history. It's not like that now, at least not since my 2010 Panda was built.

so if the window and right indicator work WITHOUT THE IGNITION SWITCHED ON! then its extremely likely that there is a short between the hazard switch and those systems

No. There are circumstances in which the window should work even with the ignition off and the key out. Read on.

No ones mentioned the BCM? the windows shouldn't work with the key out even if there was a short surely

Things aren't that simple, and it's perhaps weirder that you might think.

The windows will continue to work once the ignition is turned off (and even with the key taken out), providing you haven't opened either of the front doors, but it doesn't work in quite the same way as it does with the ignition on. With the ignition on, a press of the drivers window button makes the drivers window move to the full limit of its travel (either fully up or fully down); with the ignition off, the autoclose/open part of the function is lost, and you have to keep the switch pressed to fully close (or open) the window. If you open either door, then even when the switch is pressed, the window stops working until you turn the ignition on again. The passenger window won't ever autoclose, presumably for safety reasons, but you can continue to operate it with the ignition off until you take the key out.

This is actually useful. If you park up with the windows open, you can close the windows even after you've taken the key out, until you open a door. What's less useful is that if your passenger opens their door before the window has closed fully, you have to put the key back in, turn on the ignition, and start again.

How all this works, I don't know. But there's obviously more going on here than just wires and switches. It's no use applying a 1970's diagnostic methodology to a 21st century car.

No ones mentioned the BCM?

The OP's issue might be a BCM fault. But if there is a fault in the wiring, it could be just about anywhere; a spurious feed or short could trick the BCM into unintended behaviour. On a 500, there's an obvious place to look first, and that's the rear hatch.

And a fault in a different module that's connected to the BCM (like the cluster) could also cause it to behave in erratic and unpredictable ways. The symptoms initially posted in this thread have been associated with cluster faults before.

 

[osintseva]

Have to ask the poster doe the window controls work after the car has been shut off for a while or do they shut down correctly

Yep they activate hazards however long the car has been shut off.

 

[varesecrazy]

Yep they activate hazards however long the car has been shut off.

Ok

Knowing this is indeed a 2 door 500 312 body style

This is a fairly standard checklist of "regular failures" with this build in a 500

Please check off as you work through

1, Rear Hatch wiring - chafed

2, Battery to Chassis to Engine - rotted internal earth cable

3,Damp in Scuttle area - duckbills

4,Drivers door wiring - chafed at pivot area

5,Failure of Indicator Stalk function..
Novel to control other functions..
But not 100% reliable


These are all reported failures on a 500,

Obviously water contamination could cause other issues


Actually.. Another option..

ACCESSORIES.. Any "extras"? ,
Dash cam, black box, alarm, reversing kit

A friend bemoaned a FIAT for "crap electrics", owned from new - it was the fitting of towbar and alarm kit that the Auto electrician found at fault,

Was perfect then

 

[osintseva]

Happy New Year all

Situation unchanged.
I have spoken to an auto electrician today, he reckons its the one of the earths near the light clusters needless to say I cant find the earths.
Can anyone explain where they are and how to get at them?

Thank you.

PS its not a 500L its a 500 lounge 2 door 2014

 

[jrkitching]

PS its not a 500L its a 500 lounge 2 door 2014

That's OK, you've posted in the correct section. I've edited your first post to change 500l to 500.

 

[The Panda Nut]

These are under the boot sides carpet. UNLIKELY TO BE THAT END. Look at the light fittings plugs and terminals. Also remove and clean bulbs and bulb holders thoroughly. Crusty bulbs cause the lights to eath wherever they can including down other wires of the fitting.

 

[jrkitching]

Also remove and clean bulbs and bulb holders thoroughly.

And also check that all the bulbs are working, of good quality, and of the correct specification.

Folks have run into all kinds of strange electrical issues after fitting non-standard or cheap aftermarket bulbs.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Each bulb has a live and earth the metal bulb holder is all an earth point in common

 

[The Panda Nut]

And also check that all the bulbs are working, of good quality, and of the correct specification.

Folks have run into all kinds of strange electrical issues after fitting non-standard or cheap aftermarket bulbs.

Yes Osram, Hella, Ring Halfords own. Never buy cheap internet bulbs!!!

 

[jrkitching]

Never buy cheap internet bulbs

Or some of the ones in the centre aisle at Lidl.

 

[osintseva]

Thank you for all the suggestions.
Somehow after my fiddling under the bonnet the indicators are functioning normally
I am working in the road so the weather has stopped me doing much

 

[steveras57]

Feel for ya! there are times id KILL for a garage!

 

[John202020]

Happy New Year all

Situation unchanged.
I have spoken to an auto electrician today, he reckons its the one of the earths near the light clusters needless to say I cant find the earths.
Can anyone explain where they are and how to get at them?

Thank you.

PS its not a 500L its a 500 lounge 2 door 2014

 

[osintseva]

John202020 Thanks for posting the schematic ​