Technical getting the vin number from the ecu

[dagdromer]

I've bought a 2005 Fiat Panda. The previous owner had 2 keys but no code card. The key with fob had a dead battery and they where on the same key chain. I did not look properly and bought the thing. At home I changed the battery in the remote and the light comes on but does nothing. And to my surprise I could not start the car with the key now it was no longer close to the other key.

I assumed that the key is not programmed well so I made a request at the local Fiat dealer to get the required code to program the car. But the delivered code is not accepted by the ECU. Now the dealer could have made a mistake in getting the key, but he only used the vin number to retrieve it, the car itself was not needed so that is only a slight change.
I want to be sure that the vin that is stamped in the car is corresponding with the ECU currently in the car and if not what the actual vin than is so that I can request another code using that vin. Now the question is, how to I get the vin from the ECU? I have a registered version of MultiEcuScan and a delphi vsi that I can use but I could not find it.

help is appreciated.

 

[chris3234]

Don't think the ECU holds the cars vin number


That being said a good auto locksmith can pull the cars immobiliser /security code direct from the computer bypassing the need to have the code to program the key

 

[dagdromer]

That will be the last option then. I really hoped that this could be done without it costing to much money or bringing the car to an external party. But if there is tooling to bypass the code I would have assumed that this would be available in the Fiat specific ecu tooling.

 

[DaveMcT]

My local locksmith saved the day when my Renault Espace (flat key) went for a ****. He diagnosed that the card reader was faulty and once that was fitted reprogrammed the key cards. Total cost was not silly money. A Panda should be easier/cheaper to fix as the components are less complicated.

 

[koalar]

Don't think the ECU holds the cars vin number


That being said a good auto locksmith can pull the cars immobiliser /security code direct from the computer bypassing the need to have the code to program the key

auto locksmith will charge over £200 to read the info from the body computer and add that section of programme into a blank key

then read the code and add the new key

You may find someone cheaper but that seem to be the going rate. The equipment to do it is available but costs over £1000.

 

[dagdromer]

I haven't checked the prices for the locksmith but if they are similar to what is written down here I opt for a set from the scrappy. checked online and they seem to go for around 100 euro's computers, keys, iginition barrel and including the keycard and all the door locks.

 

[koalar]

My local locksmith saved the day when my Renault Espace (flat key) went for a ****. He diagnosed that the card reader was faulty and once that was fitted reprogrammed the key cards. Total cost was not silly money. A Panda should be easier/cheaper to fix as the components are less complicated.

no comparison. Espace it trival by comparison to the Pandas remote opening

 

[koalar]

I would say that over £200 is a UK going rate. If you lived in somewhere else your mileage may alter

 

[dagdromer]

well as we all know "the assumption is the mother of all F ups.."

I tried the code with MES twice and it gave an error. Started the car with the good key assuming that would discard the invalid login attempts (did not read). Then tried again 2 times with the delphi cars software without any luck. The Delpi software said it would block the ecu up to 2 hours after 3 invalid logins. but did not mention that it was already locked.

I rang the dealer where i got the code from asking if it was possible that they made a mistake, that was not possible everything is done on vin and in a specific fiat program so a typo would be noticed. I had a discussion with him on if it was possible to retrieve information out of the ECU so that we could ask for the correct code. Also not possible but he agreed with my request to recheck the code that he provided. I gave the vin number and surprise surprise a new and different code was presented. (so a typo was made...)

With the new code I tried again in the computer using MES and that displayed me the message "ECU blocked for 30 minutes with the key on". And then I realized that I blocked the ECU using the wrong code 4 times and maybe the 30 minutes where passed but not with the key on. So put the battery charger on the car, put the working key in the iginition and set it to on, closed the doors with the non working spare and waited for an hour. And I just tested the code and hooray I'm able to program the keys as the code is correct.

Downside is that the transponder on the faulty key is giving an error so I need to check the pcb or find a new key for it.

Is it possible to get a key with a fob from a scrapped car and relearn it on mine or do I need to buy a new key?

 

[koalar]

I haven't checked the prices for the locksmith but if they are similar to what is written down here I opt for a set from the scrappy. checked online and they seem to go for around 100 euro's computers, keys, iginition barrel and including the keycard and all the door locks.

was that UK

There's one on ebay at the moment at £180 something buts that's only got one key ! and no door locks.

 

[koalar]

well as we all know "the assumption is the mother of all F ups.."

I tried the code with MES twice and it gave an error. Started the car with the good key assuming that would discard the invalid login attempts (did not read). Then tried again 2 times with the delphi cars software without any luck. The Delpi software said it would block the ecu up to 2 hours after 3 invalid logins. but did not mention that it was already locked.

I rang the dealer where i got the code from asking if it was possible that they made a mistake, that was not possible everything is done on vin and in a specific fiat program so a typo would be noticed. I had a discussion with him on if it was possible to retrieve information out of the ECU so that we could ask for the correct code. Also not possible but he agreed with my request to recheck the code that he provided. I gave the vin number and surprise surprise a new and different code was presented. (so a typo was made...)

With the new code I tried again in the computer using MES and that displayed me the message "ECU blocked for 30 minutes with the key on". And then I realized that I blocked the ECU using the wrong code 4 times and maybe the 30 minutes where passed but not with the key on. So put the battery charger on the car, put the working key in the iginition and set it to on, closed the doors with the non working spare and waited for an hour. And I just tested the code and hooray I'm able to program the keys as the code is correct.

Downside is that the transponder on the faulty key is giving an error so I need to check the pcb or find a new key for it.

Is it possible to get a key with a fob from a scrapped car and relearn it on mine or do I need to buy a new key?

no
key has to be pre programmed to your body computer
S/H keys need the security chip unsolder and a blank one fitted. Then you are back to needing it programmed

 

[koalar]

if you want cheap and cheerful you can drop in a new transponder chip in the none starting key

then clone it from the working key. Remote buttons will not work but you can open the doors with the key and start the car

 

[dagdromer]

Yes I was thinking about that but it seems quite a challenge to find a transponder chip at the moment. it is a pulse mx1005 or coilcraft 245 that should work. The only place I could find them is Ebay Italy but then you need to buy 10 and with the shipping cost the price will be over 40 euro's. then it is still the question does it work? I will phone around to check what it will cost to get this working again and make my choice based on that.

 

[koalar]

Yes I was thinking about that but it seems quite a challenge to find a transponder chip at the moment. it is a pulse mx1005 or coilcraft 245 that should work. The only place I could find them is Ebay Italy but then you need to buy 10 and with the shipping cost the price will be over 40 euro's. then it is still the question does it work? I will phone around to check what it will cost to get this working again and make my choice based on that.

Are you looking for the right thing Fiat transponder at least up to at least 2010 normally start PCF and are everywhere for £3-4 possibly a PCF7936 but I can't be bothered to double check. Some sellers will use an ID numbering system


Timpsons (people on here have had success with them) and the like can do this for you cheaper than you can buy the transponder chip and the equipment necessary to clone (write) the new information out of the working key. China have copies of the equipment to write the old information into a new transponder for around £50 plus you need some transponder chips

The transponder chips can be a bit funny. Some brands dont work properly with some writers. As most are write once you might as well let someone else take the risk of stuffing one or two up at least they will be buying transponders known to work with there writer

I looked quite hard about a year ago for the cheapest machine to fully read the body computer and fully pre program a key and clone the transponder. "zed full" (not the cheap zed bulls knocking around) can do both but even the cheap China clones aren't that cheap. Annoyingly the process isnt difficult but here in the UK few locksmiths are capable of doing this and those that can know the only other option is to purchase a pre programmed key from the main dealer and charge accordingly

I know it seems odd its easy to make a key to start the car (as long as you have a working key) but difficult to make a key to remotely open the doors. But it is what it is. Or at least that's the situation when I looked around a year ago

neither delphi or MES can do anything except add a key that has already been programmed using something else. They can not program a key

 

[A3jeroen]

Hi daydreamer, I assume that you are from Holland cause you use a dutch screenname.
My Abarth came without a sparekey and I paid €80 for a new non remote key from a keyspecialist in Heerhugowaard.

Klapsleutels.nl - Autosleutels & Behuizingen

Meer dan 1200 artikelen voor de diverse automerken. Complete autosleutels en behuizingen uit voorraad. Al jarenlang een betrouwbaar adres.

klapsleutels.nl

I'm sure they do remotes as well.

gr J

 

[RedAbarthMTA]

UK granted, but I got a mobile locksmith to provide a new remote key. He programmed both my original and the new key and whilst at it gave me the Fiat security code that is stored on the key. £160 cash and I have 2 fully functioning remote keys.

 

[DaveMcT]

auto locksmith will charge over £200 to read the info from the body computer and add that section of programme into a blank key

Mine cost under £100 AND he diagnosed the faulty card (key) reader. Look for a local guy who relies on his good reputation.

 

[dagdromer]

Hi daydreamer, I assume that you are from Holland cause you use a dutch screenname.
My Abarth came without a sparekey and I paid €80 for a new non remote key from a keyspecialist in Heerhugowaard.

Klapsleutels.nl - Autosleutels & Behuizingen

Meer dan 1200 artikelen voor de diverse automerken. Complete autosleutels en behuizingen uit voorraad. Al jarenlang een betrouwbaar adres.

klapsleutels.nl

I'm sure they do remotes as well.

gr J

Yes I'm Dutch and I live near Schiphol so Heerugowaard is not too far away. I know at least 2 lock smiths in the area that I could try now that I know what the average price could be. thanks.

 

[chris3234]

auto locksmith will charge over £200 to read the info from the body computer and add that section of programme into a blank key

then read the code and add the new key

You may find someone cheaper but that seem to be the going rate. The equipment to do it is available but costs over £1000.

No they won't there's been at least one on here quoting around £130 for a key supplied and programmed with code not being needed

 

[koalar]

No they won't there's been at least one on here quoting around £130 for a key supplied and programmed with code not being needed

I did say "You may find someone cheaper"

there at least a dozen threads on here grand punto, panda, 500 sections where they were quoted over £200

the cheapest I have seen is the £160 cash listed above which isnt bad as they will not be putting it through the books or paying tax and so still would be around £200

way back in 2013 a dealer was

Second remote key? | FIAT 500 (2007+)

Now is this right? My soon to be delivered Twin Air only comes with one remote key. As both myself and the missus will use it, we need two - what is the point of the non-remote spare? - and the dealers are saying £260 for a second remote? Anyone else had this wonderful pre-customer experience?

www.fiatforum.com

If you know of someone that charges less here in the UK I am sure other would be grateful to know although at £130 its over 1/3rd the cost of my Panda its still the cheapest I have seen

be interesting to see what other countries charge, no doubt in India it would be £20 at some back street garage. Also suspect in the UK both independent locksmiths and main dealer will be the most expensive