Technical Gearbox oil seal -are we being ripped off?

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Technical Gearbox oil seal -are we being ripped off?

DurhamDad

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Hi all, the clutch on my daughters Panda started slipping so she took it into a local garage for repair.
They quoted £430 to fit a new clutch. Once it was apart, they said there was oil contamination and would need a new seal fitting. (This is despite her telling them to fit a new seal while it was apart).
I’ve attached the video they sent.
Then they added the seal is inside the gearbox and they’d need a specialist to do it, costing £300 to strip the gearbox and fit a new bearing and seal.
It’s starting to sound a bit dubious to me, trying to take advantage of a young girl.
Any advice would be really appreciated.
Thanks.
 

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As you can see from their video, there is a lot of oil in there. It should be dry. As they pointed out, the seal is inside, as it seals that splined shaft, so the casing has to be split to replace the seal.
The video made me cringe, glad it is not my vehicle they're working on, as it seemed unprofessional. It is therefore a good idea for them to pass the box to a specialist for the seal to be replaced.
 
Thanks for the reply. I’m happier with motorbikes than cars but I was pretty sure it could only be oil contamination from a damaged seal.
The more I talk to them, the less professional they seem.
He’s now saying they can take the gearbox to the other company, as it’s already off, have them fit the seal (for £300), then fit the clutch and refit the gearbox included in their original price to change the clutch.
So a £430 job is now £730
I’m not 100% convinced they wouldn’t just pocket the extra money and do nothing about the seal.
I don’t know what to advise her!
 
Thanks for the reply and idea. I’ve searched for the guide but can’t find it, was it Panda specific?
We’ve totally lost confidence in the garage and have asked them just to put it back together (with a new clutch) so we can get the car away.
I realise that the new clutch will become contaminated and slip but hopefully it should buy us some time while we consider the options, certainly won’t be going back to that garage again though!
 
We’ve totally lost confidence in the garage and have asked them just to put it back together (with a new clutch) so we can get the car away.
Understandable, but that means you'll have to pay for all the work to be done again, and likely have to pay for new clutch parts too. If the seal isn't replaced, the leak might be worse now that it's been disturbed. It will also leak more if the gearbox oil is topped up to the correct level, and if it isn't, you risk ruining the 'box as well.

A better way forward might be to take the gearbox away yourself to a different garage to have the seal replaced, then have the original garage reassemble the car.

Another option, though not a particularly ethical one, would be to sell the car quickly once it's returned, before the clutch inevitably starts slipping again.

Even though you know you're being ripped off, sometimes the least worst option is just to see the repair through to its conclusion with the original garage.

Once you've got the car back, you could add a review of the garage in the garages section, to help others who might consider using them in future.
 
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Hi all, the clutch on my daughters Panda started slipping so she took it into a local garage for repair.
They quoted £430 to fit a new clutch. Once it was apart, they said there was oil contamination and would need a new seal fitting. (This is despite her telling them to fit a new seal while it was apart).
I’ve attached the video they sent.
Then they added the seal is inside the gearbox and they’d need a specialist to do it, costing £300 to strip the gearbox and fit a new bearing and seal.
It’s starting to sound a bit dubious to me, trying to take advantage of a young girl.
Any advice would be really appreciated.
Thanks.
While I can accept a degree of cynicism/caution I think the video is fairly conclusive - there should not be oil there in the bell housing. I'm assuming they can differentiate between gearbox oil and engine oil (crankshaft oil seal). I don't think you have mentioned age or miles on the car? I had a dual mass flywheel and clutch on my 4x4 Twin air for I think around GBP650.00. If the work can be guaranteed then I see no point in simply reassembling and then having the same problem down the road. As for just selling it on - well I couldn't do that without fixing the issue or making the buyer aware...

Another solution might be to source a secondhand box and have that fitted. I'd anticipate labour rates in the region of GBP100.00/hr so I don't think you are getting such a bad deal.

Others have commented on the poor video quality; well its a garage not a film studio, the video describes the issue adequately...
 
Of course it's really silly that they fitted the new clutch without addressing the issue of the oil leak. Any oil inside the bell housing should immediately flag up that additional action is needed. Even the smallest of leaks from the input shaft seal is unacceptable as it'll always just get worse with the result you've experienced. They should have left you in no doubt that this issue needed to be addressed.

Having said all that, leaks from the input shaft on our gearboxes is not all that uncommon, seems to be a wee bit of a weak point on them. Also seems to be often accompanied by detectable wear in the first motion shaft (input, splined , shaft you can see) bearing so it's just as well the seal is integral with the bearing and you can't do just the seal on it's own. The bearing and that splined shaft can't be extracted into the bellhousing which is why the box needs to be dismantled, to allow the shaft with it's bearing to be removed. Luckily I've never had to do one and I know the "official" way to do it is to remove the casing entirely and then the gear clusters - quite time consuming - However I've seen videos showing how you can do it without completely dismantling the box which look very "doable" but probably not for the faint hearted to attempt. Maybe the video guide Panda Nut mentioned above shows this procedure? I must have a look for it.

In your situation I think you need to consider
1. Carrying out the actual replacement of the clutch itself is not a very difficult operation - you don't need to be a "super tech" for a job like this so even someone not all that proficient should be able to achieve a good out come.

2. When you got the car back with the new clutch fitted it worked Ok I think? So it looks like they got the job done well enough - what went wrong was that, for whatever reason, or incompetence, they failed to properly take into account the ongoing effect of the oil leak and impress on you the need to attend to this which resulted in your present situation.

3. - and this is the biggie, They are not going to be the ones who are working on the gearbox to rectify this leak/bearing problem. As this leak/bearing problem is not exactly an unknown one, anyone specializing in gearbox repair will be familiar with it and with this gearbox, so the likelihood is that the "specialist" will do a good job in this respect leaving the garage with the job of just doing the clutch which is a job many DIY driveway grease monkeys manage to do very satisfactorily.

4. I presume the garage and gearbox specialist will warranty their work? So if it all doesn't work out it should then be covered by their guarantee - I'm thinking especially of the gearbox repair. But that's the pessimistic side of me showing through! Get the seal bearing sorted out and all should be well.

So I think that, if it was me, I'd just authorize the gearbox repair and feel moderately confident that the issue will thus be sorted. I think this is probably the best and most cost effective thing for you to do - or, if you're totally lacking in conscience or scruples, just get them to clean up the flywheel, pressure plate and inside the bell housing with a good soaking of something like brake cleaner - None of these parts are worn in any way and couple of spray cans would probably make a good job. Then slam it back together with a new driven plate (friction lining - because you can't effectively clean up heavily contaminated friction material) Take it home and don't drive it at all and either part ex it for another car or sell it privately. Unless you renew that seal/bearing it's only going to be a matter of days, possibly weeks, before you're back in this situation again.

You're in a horrible situation here and my heart bleeds for you - hope it all comes out well in the end whatever you decide to do.
 
Just had a wee final thought on the above. I seem to remember there are a couple of hollow dowel guides, one on either side of the bell housing in the casing (the gearbox bolts go through them) which are there to ensure the gearbox lines up properly. The big thing is that they ensure the input shaft (first motion shaft) is exactly in line with the centre line of the crankshaft - These boxes don't have a spigot which runs in a spigot bearing in the middle of the flywheel - If these, or even one of these, hollow dowels is missing the input shaft may be slightly out of line with the crankshaft centre line which would very likely accelerate the early failure of the input shaft bearing? So check the dowels are in place.

Some gearbox designs use solid dowels with their own dedicated "holes" but I think the Panda ones are the hollow type.
 
Thanks to all for your replies.
The main reason we lost faith in the garage was that we went to them and said the clutch was slipping, due to a leaking seal and would need it and the seal replacing. They totally ignored that removed the clutch and then decided they couldn’t do the seal, which is how we ended up in this situation. Also they almost doubled the quote.
They even advertise as clutch specialists, yet can only do half of the work required.
I really think they just saw a young female and decided she’d be easy to rip off.
Regarding the commentary on the video, he sounds even less professional and knowledgeable on the phone.
She only chose that garage as they are local to her, could do the job straight away and could provide a loan car as she needs one to get to work.
The car’s mileage is around 80k, it’s her first car so is special to her. As far as we know that’s the original clutch so it hasn’t done too badly. It won’t be just dodged and sold on to an unsuspecting buyer, I’ve had that done to me in the past. It isn’t nice and I’m a great believer in karma.
 
Thanks for the reply and idea. I’ve searched for the guide but can’t find it, was it Panda specific?
We’ve totally lost confidence in the garage and have asked them just to put it back together (with a new clutch) so we can get the car away.
I realise that the new clutch will become contaminated and slip but hopefully it should buy us some time while we consider the options, certainly won’t be going back to that garage again though!
NO it was Doblo or Punto. I am useless at searching but will try and locate. Poster reckoned it was easy!
 
 
Hi,
It will be cheaper to say yes to the extra £300 for getting the gearbox seal replaced now .
Plus If you say no don't replace the seal they don't have to warranty the clutch fitted.
Best wishes
Jack

But a warranted replacement box could work out a similar price.. 😉

Just a thought if you wish to keep the car for another 30k 😊
 
Thanks to all for your replies.
The main reason we lost faith in the garage was that we went to them and said the clutch was slipping, due to a leaking seal and would need it and the seal replacing. They totally ignored that removed the clutch and then decided they couldn’t do the seal, which is how we ended up in this situation. Also they almost doubled the quote.
They even advertise as clutch specialists, yet can only do half of the work required.
I really think they just saw a young female and decided she’d be easy to rip off.
Regarding the commentary on the video, he sounds even less professional and knowledgeable on the phone.
She only chose that garage as they are local to her, could do the job straight away and could provide a loan car as she needs one to get to work.
The car’s mileage is around 80k, it’s her first car so is special to her. As far as we know that’s the original clutch so it hasn’t done too badly. It won’t be just dodged and sold on to an unsuspecting buyer, I’ve had that done to me in the past. It isn’t nice and I’m a great believer in karma.
Could it be they thought you meant the engine crankshaft oil seal, which is behind the flywheel and much easier to replace?
 
Could it be they thought you meant the engine crankshaft oil seal, which is behind the flywheel and much easier to replace?
I think they just saw a young girl and ignored everything she said to them, went ahead and stripped the clutch and then hit problems that were beyond them.
 
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