Technical Gear select problem

[bikes-for-me]

:bang: Been in the back ground on this site for a while,great site and helped me when i had a problem in the past.Now i have another problem and i am worried if the clutch needs replacing, because i lost my job just before xmas and need car for kids.
Car is 2001 JTD 110 ELX model 86k,problem is when you first get in car gear select ok then it gets worse the longer you drive.No crunching of gears only when you put it in reverse,and the clutch pedal feels the same from when we had the car.
Not sure if the clutch is original had the car with 60k on it,looking around the site i am hoping it might be clutch slave master cylinder.How can i check and is it fiat part only ,hope its cheap.Got a original cd manual, but find it tricky to use and dont see any option to print the screen page.
Any help in this matter would be very gratefull , because i will have to do the work myself.If parts are going to cost then i will have to sell her,we are just so skint now until i can find work.
Heard that you have to replace flywheel with clutch and if its main dealer parts that will kill the car off.Shame because car has been a good runner ,apart from some small faults which are normal going by the thread on it.:worship:

 

[bikes-for-me]

:bang: No ideas from anyone yet,so i tried to bleed the clutch master slave.I undone the wire clip pulled the pipe out 4mm then got the other half to put clutch down and hold it down while i push pipe back in.Did this until clean fluid came out,was dirty to start with.Now the clutch pedal gone altogether,so bleed the clutch with the clutch bleed screw on back bulkhead near battery.Undone the 8mm screw and bleed as above.Lots of air came out and the pedal came back but was not as hard very soft.
I bleed the master slave a few times ,some air in then went back to bleeding the clutch.The pedal as gone again and only geting air out with a little brake fluid after around 20mins bleeding.
Should this be right,how long should it take to bleed.:bang:

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

The best way of bleeding can be done with two persons, one operating the (clutch) pedal, the other the valve(s).

 

[bikes-for-me]

The best way of bleeding can be done with two persons, one operating the (clutch) pedal, the other the valve(s).

Cheers for reply,but i was operating the valves and my other half was doing the clutch.Starting to think if the slave or clutch master cylinder is at fault,no leaking anywhere but not bleeding very good seems that there is always air coming out when you bleed it.

 

[Pandabloke]

Try here http://multiplaowners.co.uk/ and Tech Faq and scroll down to the two bits on clutch bleeding, see if that helps.

Sorry you're having problems.

 

[bikes-for-me]

Try here http://multiplaowners.co.uk/ and Tech Faq and scroll down to the two bits on clutch bleeding, see if that helps.

Sorry you're having problems.

:bang: That is where i got my info to bleed the clutch,doing my head in this car.Was hoping someone had same problem to shine some light on it.

 

[glowplug]

Might sound like an odd idea but check your front and rear engine mounts. Also when was the last time the transmission oil was changed?? People have this false belief that it will last forever bjt over time it loses shear resistance hence resulting in lower viscosity and hence protection. If you say the clucth pedal is still taking at the same point. Try and put it in and wait 5 secs before you put it into reverse. If it does not crunch then a clutch disengagement issue is most likely and this will probably point to the hydraulics.

 

[bikes-for-me]

Might sound like an odd idea but check your front and rear engine mounts. Also when was the last time the transmission oil was changed?? People have this false belief that it will last forever bjt over time it loses shear resistance hence resulting in lower viscosity and hence protection. If you say the clucth pedal is still taking at the same point. Try and put it in and wait 5 secs before you put it into reverse. If it does not crunch then a clutch disengagement issue is most likely and this will probably point to the hydraulics.

Thanks for the advice,to be honest the gearbox oil as never been changed since i have had the car,so i will change that.Trying to bleed the clutch slave
cylinder and the clutch as made the pedal go to the floor.I am not sure if there is a order to do it,but started to bleed the slave first and that made the pedal go to the floor,so bleeding the clutch now and only getting air and a little brake fluid after 20- 30 min solid bleeding.Just starting to think that should of cleared of air by now.Will try and bleed it again when i have someone to help me latter in the week.If no joy there then think i will try new slave then the clutch master cylinder,or should you replace them together.The master cylinder seems hard to get at,just hope this will sort the gear select problem .:bang:

 

[glowplug]

Bleeding a clutch is the same as brakes.

= two man job or you use a pressure system.

pump pump pump and hold pedal down.

release bleed on slave let air out

fill master reservoir

pump pump pump and hold pedal down.

release bleed on slave let air out

fill master reservoir

keep doing until only brake fluid comes out with NO bubbles

 

[bikes-for-me]

Bleeding a clutch is the same as brakes.

= two man job or you use a pressure system.

pump pump pump and hold pedal down.

release bleed on slave let air out

fill master reservoir

pump pump pump and hold pedal down.

release bleed on slave let air out

fill master reservoir

keep doing until only brake fluid comes out with NO bubbles

Cheers ,thats how i have been doing it tho.

 

[glowplug]

Ok then try the gravity method.

Push the plunger on your slave all the way in and find some way to keep it in e.g. cable tie. Then with the pedal out make sure the master cylinder is full and then slowly open the bleed on the slave. Keep topping up the master until the fluid flows out the slave clear. then slowly release the slave plunger whilst your helper fills the reservoir. You don't want to let it shoot out otherwise it will suck down fluid and maybe air.

This will only work if at all points in the system the master cylinder is higher than the slave otherwise you will need to use a pressure assisted system.

If this still doesn't work then I am afraid either a master cylinder or slave cylinder seal kit is required so long as Fiat sell such kits.

 

[bikes-for-me]

Cheers for that advice glowplug,think i understand what you are saying.When you bleed the system normal ,there is a clutch bleed screw behind battery on bulkhead.You can also remove the metal clip on clutch slave and push pipe out to bleed the slave too.
Is there a order in which to do,do you need to bleed the slave or can you just bleed on the clutch through the clutch bleed screw only.Just confused that i had a good clutch pedal before i started to bleed it.

 

[glowplug]

I have never done the one on my wifes Multipla but have been fixing cars for over 25 years and have always used one of these three methods. You just need to look at it logically, take a look at where the fluid travels, where the possible ingress of air maybe and take it from there.

I have bled many supposedly "sealed systems" as well and again used the same principals.

 

[bikes-for-me]

Got all the air out of the clutch,a lot more fluid pressure at the clutch slave now.Took it for a run,can drive it now but sometimes hard to get in 3rd and 1st but no where like it was.
Going to change the gearbox oil and see if any better,if not might try a new clutch slave.Dont think its the clutch now which would of killed the car as i could not afford to do clutch plus heard you have to replace flywheel too,god knows how much they cost.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

If the gearbox is cable operated, like it is on my 1,6-16V Palio, it is worth to grease the system at the end of the two cables, on top of the gearbox, there's a large bolt that wil rust inside it's housing, difficult 1th, 3th and 5th gear shifting as a result.
As for the gearbox, I use synthetic Castrol TAF-X 75W90 gearoil, shifts perfect, hot and cold.
www.castrol.co.uk

Edit:Castrol UK advices to use SMX-S gearoil in the Multipla.

 

[bikes-for-me]

If the gearbox is cable operated, like it is on my 1,6-16V Palio, it is worth to grease the system at the end of the two cables, on top of the gearbox, there's a large bolt that wil rust inside it's housing, difficult 1th, 3th and 5th gear shifting as a result.
As for the gearbox, I use synthetic Castrol TAF-X 75W90 gearoil, shifts perfect, hot and cold.
www.castrol.co.uk

Edit:Castrol UK advices to use SMX-S gearoil in the Multipla.

Cheers for that ,will get the grease out when i change the gearbox oil.