Technical Fiat Ducato 1994 Will Not Start

[clara100]

I have a fiat ducato 1994 motorhome that I have had major problems with lately and the mechanics are very little help.

I just had my whole engine overhualed for the cost of 2500 euros but the motorhome still will not work. The mechanic is saying there is nothing wrong with the engine itself, it is down to something else. He fixes the something else "I dont know the items name that he had replaced twice" but the problem keeps happening the engine will not start.

So when I start the engine the two lights do not come onto the dashboard. I only have one light, the other orange light does not appear like it should.

The item the mecanic replaced is in this area of the motor. I think its the black box with the red and brown wires. The first time he replaced it, it didnt work. The second time he replaced it, it worked for a few days then after rain the 2nd light didnt come on in the morning. In the afternoon I went back to the van and it started working correctly again, he said the issue is with wiring. For the last 3 weeks it has worked correctly, no issues starting. However this morning, after more rain. It has stopped working again. We have had a stupid amount of rain over the last month, like a whole years worth, which is not normal for the country I am in.

You can see the battery below (its working) but it has corrosion and water on the top.

I also have another issue with the coolent leaking in my seating area. I told the mechanic about this, he said it was rain. its not rain, its coolant. He completely dismissed me after I have spent nearly 3000 euros with him, he basically said my van is getting on his nerves. Its old, I should consider it to be broken!!! After I spent all the money with him.
Can anyone HELP please. I do not know about mechanics, I am female, but I am happy to try to fix as much as I can myself (hopefully possible) because I am sick and tired of mechanics doing a poop job for me.

I have tried taking off the dashboard to see if I can see the leak but I still can directly see the leak without removing into what I assume to be the heating system.

 

[puntodad19]

Hi Clara,

I suppose all Blokes are a sucket for a damsel in distress....

Exact info on your camper, model, engine etc...

Do you have any tools, and what experience fo you have on engines and electrics, be absolutely honest with your self and us....

Can you wire a standard British mains electric plug properly ?

Can you change a fuse in that plug ?

You say it rains a lot where you are, in wales.perhaps ?

Your mech, his name does not begin with a v bu chance does it ?

Anyways, exact details on van please ?

You will have a kettle, which is probably gunna be used in your first "chore"...

Over...

 

[clara100]

Hi Clara,

I suppose all Blokes are a sucket for a damsel in distress....

Exact info on your camper, model, engine etc...

Do you have any tools, and what experience fo you have on engines and electrics, be absolutely honest with your self and us....

Can you wire a standard British mains electric plug properly ?

Can you change a fuse in that plug ?

You say it rains a lot where you are, in wales.perhaps ?

Your mech, his name does not begin with a v bu chance does it ?

Anyways, exact details on van please ?

You will have a kettle, which is probably gunna be used in your first "chore"...

Over...

Hi, yes I can do electrics. I am renovating a house and did some electrics in here. Plugs i have been doing for 25 years in the UK and Portugal! I am a fast learner and teach my self ALOT.

No experience with engines but I had no experience with house renovations but I just did a 5 bed house. I am a smart cookie and pick everything up easily.

Fiat ducato, not 1994 actually its 1997 10 tds. Diesel, 1.9 , motorhome

I am in Portugal which is why I am not demanding my money back because there is no point as there is very little customer protections over here.

We have had 5 storms one after the other, parts of the country are flooded

 

[lycopersicum]

I have had very contrasting experiences with mechanics in Portugal, from horrific to amazing.

One took 8 weeks for an 8 hour job, evaded giving a quote despite being reminded 6 times and just presented me with a €2,500 bill after the fact, needlessly replacing a bunch of OEM sensors at great cost which I then had to put back in as the new ones failed one month later and the old ones were perfectly fine!

The two others have been amazing, doing their absolute best to fix rather than replace, charging €40 to rebuild my failing starter.

It helps to be referred by an existing customer as this creates a social obligation.

What part of the country are you in?

 

[clara100]

I have had very contrasting experiences with mechanics in Portugal, from horrific to amazing.

One took 8 weeks for an 8 hour job, evaded giving a quote despite being reminded 6 times and just presented me with a €2,500 bill after the fact, needlessly replacing a bunch of OEM sensors at great cost which I then had to put back in as the new ones failed one month later and the old ones were perfectly fine!

The two others have been amazing, doing their absolute best to fix rather than replace, charging €40 to rebuild my failing starter.

It helps to be referred by an existing customer as this creates a social obligation.

What part of the country are you in?

I have lived in Portugal for 15 years and I speak Portuguese, I know the country very well and I know mechanics very well, this one had me over a barrel bc my engine needed rebuilding and he is on my street. He made me wait 7 months for him to finally do the work and I still do not have a working van after nearly one year.

He is a referral, he doesnt care! I am female and foreign!

I have lived all over Portugal

 

[lycopersicum]

I would look for another mechanic ASAP as this one seems dishonest and not motivated to do a good job. It might cost to have it towed somewhere else but there's nothing worse than being stuck with a bad mechanics

 

[clara100]

I would look for another mechanic ASAP as this one seems dishonest and not motivated to do a good job. It might cost to have it towed somewhere else but there's nothing worse than being stuck with a bad mechanics

I am asking on here, because I do not have money. If I had the money I would take it to the mechanic I trust.

But I am skint 3000 euros is a HUGE amount of money for me so I am asking here for help, do you have any suggestions on how to fix it?

 

[lycopersicum]

Me no but we have several members on this forum who are familiar with the older generations of Ducato and hopefully they will have advice, let's see what they say in the next few days

 

[puntodad19]

Some people deserve to be shot to be quite honest, but hay ho.....

1. You have tools and multimeters and could knock up a 12volt ( or 24v come to that ) test lamp ?

Batteries....

2. The grey varta battery that lives under the bonnet, I gunna call the VEHICLE battery.

3. I suspect the camper part of the mobile home has an other battery ? If so, let's call that the CAMPER battery.

Are we agreed so far ?

Picture of camper battery please....

4. I assume you have a complete and accurate wiring diagram for the vehicle and it's possible connections to the camper battery, AND a complete and accurate wiring diagram of the camper electrics, and it's possible connection to the vehicle battery ?

5. There may be a manual disconnect switch, or an automatic disconnect switch, to disconnect all vehicle electrics from all camper electrics, so both systems can be completely isolated from each other, a SAFE condition for both systems as it where.

Doing this on a matchbox size phone screen which sometimes is a pita.

Will have access to large screen library computer tommorrow.

Please answer all posed questions by number please to avoid confusion and FIRE !

Over.....

 

[clara100]

Some people deserve to be shot to be quite honest, but hay ho.....

1. You have tools and multimeters and could knock up a 12volt ( or 24v come to that ) test lamp ?

Batteries....

2. The grey varta battery that lives under the bonnet, I gunna call the VEHICLE battery.

3. I suspect the camper part of the mobile home has an other battery ? If so, let's call that the CAMPER battery.

Are we agreed so far ?

Picture of camper battery please....

4. I assume you have a complete and accurate wiring diagram for the vehicle and it's possible connections to the camper battery, AND a complete and accurate wiring diagram of the camper electrics, and it's possible connection to the vehicle battery ?

5. There may be a manual disconnect switch, or an automatic disconnect switch, to disconnect all vehicle electrics from all camper electrics, so both systems can be completely isolated from each other, a SAFE condition for both systems as it where.

Doing this on a matchbox size phone screen which sometimes is a pita.

Will have access to large screen library computer tommorrow.

Please answer all posed questions by number please to avoid confusion and FIRE !

Over.....

Puntodad, I appreciate your help but I am not a moron, in case you were deliberately simplifying things for me. I know the difference between the battery for the engine and the battery for the camper. You do not have to dumb it down to that level for me.

1, yes I can knock one up

2, yes you have the picture already

3, I would have to provide this tomorrow, as I am not at home and the light will be gone by the time I get home, It is located under the drivers seat

4, I have the manual for the camper and I do not have the wiring diagram of the camper electrics. It was not provided on purchase.

5. I would assume there is, I believe I know where it is but I need to test it tomorrow.

Thanks for your help

 

[puntodad19]

So you know what a short circuit is and the damage they can do ?

You know what is meant by earth return and insulated return ?

Split diode ?

That black box seen in one picture, the febi one, what is that please ?

Is it to do with a split charge circuit ?

Do your research on that.

Starting problem seems water related.

You could unplum heater matrix and blow thru, water problem disappears ?

Lift mats etc...
It's relatively warm in Portugal eh!

Sort out battery connection problems, have a cuppa whilst you think on that one....

When attempting to start the engine, does the engine struggle to "turm over", or turn over really quickly, really smartly, and sounds as if it "misses a beat" perhaps ?

You do say that when it does start, it runs smooth and ok ?

Dash lights, which ones exactly misbehave....

Dont shoot the piano player, don't set your vehicle on fire...take a chill pill ffs.

 

[clara100]

So you know what a short circuit is and the damage they can do ?

You know what is meant by earth return and insulated return ?

Split diode ?

That black box seen in one picture, the febi one, what is that please ?

Is it to do with a split charge circuit ?

Do your research on that.

Starting problem seems water related.

You could unplum heater matrix and blow thru, water problem disappears ?

Lift mats etc...
It's relatively warm in Portugal eh!

Sort out battery connection problems, have a cuppa whilst you think on that one....

When attempting to start the engine, does the engine struggle to "turm over", or turn over really quickly, really smartly, and sounds as if it "misses a beat" perhaps ?

You do say that when it does start, it runs smooth and ok ?

Dash lights, which ones exactly misbehave....

Dont shoot the piano player, don't set your vehicle on fire...take a chill pill ffs.

I am not shooting the messenger, however I dont need to be spoken to like I am a 10 year old child.

If you want to talk down to me because I am a female then I will ask at other places, i dont need to be patronised because I am a woman, which is what you are doing and started doing with your "damsel in distress" comment. Red Flag. Do you make that comment about "men being in distress?" when they ask for help on here. No i thought not. You just provide information.

I am looking for help, if you want to provide that without feeling the need to patronise me, then I would really appreciate it but if your help comes with a huge dose of you treating me like a moron because i am female. I will pass.

 

[PL 8]

I think its the black box with the red and brown wires.

Febi 12746 is the relay for glow plug system/preheating.

Febi Bilstein Preheating Relay 12746

Febi Bilstein Preheating Relay 12746 FIAT OE Reference 46428175

www.ymfcarparts.co.uk

The second orange light that doesn´t work, is that perhaps for the preheating?
If that´s the problem I´m surprised if a mechanic can´t fix it.

 

[clara100]

Febi 12746 is the relay for glow plug system/preheating.

Febi Bilstein Preheating Relay 12746

Febi Bilstein Preheating Relay 12746 FIAT OE Reference 46428175

www.ymfcarparts.co.uk

The second orange light that doesn´t work, is that perhaps for the preheating?
If that´s the problem I´m surprised if a mechanic can´t fix it.

Thank you PL8, I will research the product you provided, it looks like the item he changed.

yes I think it is for preheating. I think its more a matter of him not wanting to fix it. The van was with him for 7 months. He came out once to fix the issue at my house, and managed to get it working again but then it failed again. I also do not want to take it back to him, he isnt someone who I can trust and I dont want to give him any more of my money, cos he doesnt fix problems

 

[Communicator]

I am wondering whether all of the glow plugs have failed? There will be one for each of the four cylinders. On some engines they may be connected together by a solid metal strip, which unfortunately has to be removed if they are to be tested individually. If the individual glow plugs are linked by cable then easier to remove for testing, either with test lamp, or with multimeter selected to continuity check with buzzer. Using the buzzer makes the job easier as you can concentrate on where you are holding the test connections.

If glow plugs need changing, then this can be problematic as they can break leaving a piece stuck in the engine. For illustration try searching this form, or more generally on the internet. Unfortunately perhaps a specialist job.

Is the engine a 1.9 litre, or a 2.5 litre? The 1.9 is indirect injection, while the 2.5 litre engines are direct injection. Different wiring diagrams apply. I will attach the diagram for the 1.9 litre engine, as that is immediately availably.

To my critical eye, the battery negative connection in the photo is a horror story. Boiling water is a good way to remove the deposits. Polish up electrical contact surfaces with sandpaper, and apply a smear of vaseline to all surfaces before reassembly.

Water in the foot well is very probably due to a leaking heater matrix, for which the only real cure is replacement, which again is not an easy task. Search again to find what is involved.

 

[clara100]

I am wondering whether all of the glow plugs have failed? There will be one for each of the four cylinders. On some engines they may be connected together by a solid metal strip, which unfortunately has to be removed if they are to be tested individually. If the individual glow plugs are linked by cable then easier to remove for testing, either with test lamp, or with multimeter selected to continuity check with buzzer. Using the buzzer makes the job easier as you can concentrate on where you are holding the test connections.

If glow plugs need changing, then this can be problematic as they can break leaving a piece stuck in the engine. For illustration try searching this form, or more generally on the internet. Unfortunately perhaps a specialist job.

Is the engine a 1.9 litre, or a 2.5 litre? The 1.9 is indirect injection, while the 2.5 litre engines are direct injection. Different wiring diagrams apply. I will attach the diagram for the 1.9 litre engine, as that is immediately availably.

To my critical eye, the battery negative connection in the photo is a horror story. Boiling water is a good way to remove the deposits. Polish up electrical contact surfaces with sandpaper, and apply a smear of vaseline to all surfaces before reassembly.

Water in the foot well is very probably due to a leaking heater matrix, for which the only real cure is replacement, which again is not an easy task. Search again to find what is involved.

Hi,

I hope the glow plugs havent failed after I spent close to 2500 euros on him fixing the engine. It has not stopped raining here, so I cannot look at the engine until it stops on Friday. When I will try to test the plugs with the crocodile clips and light bulb method and I will clean up the battery, thanks for the tip.

The RV is 1.9

I am also getting an error on the board for my leisure battery, so does this suggest the issue is electrical after all? I was planning to shut down all the leisure battery connections on Friday too.

Thanks for the help

 

[Communicator]

T

Hi,

I hope the glow plugs havent failed after I spent close to 2500 euros on him fixing the engine. It has not stopped raining here, so I cannot look at the engine until it stops on Friday. When I will try to test the plugs with the crocodile clips and light bulb method and I will clean up the battery, thanks for the tip.

The RV is 1.9

I am also getting an error on the board for my leisure battery, so does this suggest the issue is electrical after all? I was planning to shut down all the leisure battery connections on Friday too.
View attachment 481318
Thanks for the help

The habitation (leisure) battery is probably suffering from lack of charge, unless the vehicle has solar panels, or is on Electrical Hook Up (EHU).
When the engine is not running, there should be no connection between the two systems.

 

[clara100]

T

The habitation (leisure) battery is probably suffering from lack of charge, unless the vehicle has solar panels, or is on Electrical Hook Up (EHU).
When the engine is not running, there should be no connection between the two systems.

The van has a solar panel, but no sun for months, the battery should be full tho because I just drove 250km and i have not used the leisure battery in the van since my trip. But you think it is not related to the engine issue

 

[Communicator]

The van has a solar panel, but no sun for months, the battery should be full tho because I just drove 250km and i have not used the leisure battery in the van since my trip. But you think it is not related to the engine issue

The split charge relay should separate the systems, when the engine is not running.

 

[puntodad19]

I am so so glad the engine starts and runs now.....

still raining and cab floor still getting wet ?

still have starting issues when its rained ?

contact the motor home converter to get a "camper battery" related electrics wiring diagram, and the split diode/split charging device wiring diagram.....you have the instructions for that i hope ?

did the kettle come in handy sorting the battery connections issues ?

bit cryptic yes, i apologise but was said to make you think.

you have internet after all.....