Technical Exhaust Replacement

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Technical Exhaust Replacement

While underneath my 09 Panda 1.2 replacing the clutch, it's clear that the front exhaust clamp/bracket is rusted away and needs replacing; at least in part:

Panda_169_Front_Exhaust_Support_Bracket.jpg


Does anyone know if this clamp is available as a separate part? I've looked in the usual suppliers websites and nothing come to light.
 
While underneath my 09 Panda 1.2 replacing the clutch, it's clear that the front exhaust clamp/bracket is rusted away and needs replacing; at least in part:

View attachment 436582

Does anyone know if this clamp is available as a separate part? I've looked in the usual suppliers websites and nothing come to light.
51816520

Or they are fairly simple to knock one up yourself

Most fiats use the same. I have looked at the scrap yard. They were all rotted through on older puntos
 
51816520

Or they are fairly simple to knock one up yourself

Most fiats use the same. I have looked at the scrap yard. They were all rotted through on older puntos
There is no Fiat part for the clamp, as Fiat weld it to the original front pipe.
51816520 is actually a clamp for connecting the front pipe to the centre pipe, so its internal diameter is larger, to go around the centre pipe. I've used one on mine, but it needed a spacer shim to allow it to clamp to the front pipe. This was a bit of a pain, so sadly, not as simple as just a new clamp.
 
There is no Fiat part for the clamp, as Fiat weld it to the original front pipe.
51816520 is actually a clamp for connecting the front pipe to the centre pipe, so its internal diameter is larger, to go around the centre pipe. I've used one on mine, but it needed a spacer shim to allow it to clamp to the front pipe. This was a bit of a pain, so sadly, not as simple as just a new clamp.
There must be different designs of the manicat. When I take the gearbox off I always spin this part out of the way. Not come across a welded one yet. They all been like the one in @Shuggie original photo


This advert advertises it as fitting the manicat



And this one as fitting the CAT ford Ka post 2008


It has been fitted to the 1.2 500 here https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/exhaust-front-clamps-replacement.497411/post-4660276

Rather expensive for a little bracket in my opinion
20181120130802.jpg
 
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I have just ordered one of those 51816520 clamps from Desira FIAT, for collection tomorrow.

This is the clamp for a 500; it won't fit a 2009 1.2 Panda without modifying it. I once bought one of these, and only found out it was the wrong part when trying to fit it. Read on.

There's some misinformation in this thread.

The confusion has probably arisen because the 60HP 1.2 Panda exhaust, whilst looking identical to the 500 one, is actually a different diameter throughout. None of the sections, clamps or brackets are interchangeable, even though they look very similar.

The 51816520 clip is for the 500 (and possibly the 69HP Panda, and quite a few other Fiats and Alfas). It secures the bottom of the manicat to the bracket bolted onto the gearbox. It has nothing to do with the connection between the front pipe and the manicat; this is done with a separate clamp, welded to the pipe on OEM exhausts and often missing completely after a few years, but easily replaceable with a simple U clamp.

It's important that this clamp is fitted and is in good condition; without it, any movement of the exhaust can stress the manicat and it will likely crack at the exhaust manifold end - awkward and costly to fix.

51816520 has too large an internal diameter (it's loose on the pipe even when fully tightened), and the bolt holes won't line up either - it won't fit a 2009 1.2 Panda without modification.

Whilst the 51816520 clip is readily available, the similar but slightly smaller clip for the Panda (sorry I don't have the part number, perhaps @koalar can help?) isn't. I replaced one last year, and couldn't source the correct one for the Panda anywhere in the UK, at any price.

What I did was to take a 51816520 and modify it. You need to make a shim to wrap around the pipe to pack out the connection (I used a piece cut from a thin galvanised strip from a carpentry joist hanger), and you need to elongate the holes in the clamp in the direction towards its centre. I used a dremel with appropriate grinding and cutting accessories. Make sure the clamp fits freely and doesn't stress the exhaust when you tighten it up, or you may have problems later on. Also make sure it holds the pipe securely - this will need shimming between the pipe and clamp if you use 51816520.

Alternatively you could just make something up from whatever you have lying around, but it needs to be sufficiently rigid to hold the pipe securely without stressing it. The OEM bracket is surprisingly strong.

Given the speed with which these usually rust away, coat it with anything you think might help protect it, but remember it gets quite hot in service. For some reason, it's only the part which attaches to the exhaust that seems to suffer; the bracket attached to the gearbox is usually solid, and even the bolt is likely to be reusable.

I've got a picture of the finished job somewhere; I'll see if I can dig it out.

Edit: found it, and attached it. If you look closely, you'll see that I've elongated the bolt holes toward the pipe side of the clip; there's also a steel shim wrapped around the pipe inside of the clamp, right where you can't see it.

Also, if you fit an aftermarket exhaust, it likely won't come with the integral clamps between the pipe sections, so you'll need to also buy a couple of U clamps of the correct size.
 

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This is the clamp for a 500; it won't fit a 2009 1.2 Panda without modifying it. I once bought one of these, and only found out it was the wrong part when trying to fit it. Read on.

There's some misinformation in this thread.

The confusion has probably arisen because the 60HP 1.2 Panda exhaust, whilst looking identical to the 500 one, is actually a different diameter throughout. None of the sections, clamps or brackets are interchangeable, even though they look very similar.

The 51816520 clip is for the 500 (and possibly the 69HP Panda, and quite a few other Fiats and Alfas). It secures the bottom of the manicat to the bracket bolted onto the gearbox. It has nothing to do with the connection between the front pipe and the manicat; this is done with a separate clamp, welded to the pipe on OEM exhausts and often missing completely after a few years, but easily replaceable with a simple U clamp.
How annoying it fits the 1.2 punto grande, 1.2 ford KA, 1.2 500 and the post 2012 pandas but not the pre 2012 Panda 1.2

I suspect from 03/2010- it's going to fit
It's important that this clamp is fitted and is in good condition; without it, any movement of the exhaust can stress the manicat and it will likely crack at the exhaust manifold end - awkward and costly to fix.

51816520 has too large an internal diameter (it's loose on the pipe even when fully tightened), and the bolt holes won't line up either - it won't fit a 2009 1.2 Panda without modification.

Whilst the 51816520 clip is readily available, the similar but slightly smaller clip for the Panda (sorry I don't have the part number, perhaps @koalar can help?) isn't. I replaced one last year, and couldn't source the correct one for the Panda anywhere in the UK, at any price.
First thing I did was was look on ePER it's supplied with the manicat, so the numbers not there. That's not to say there isn't one
What I did was to take a 51816520 and modify it. You need to make a shim to wrap around the pipe to pack out the connection (I used a piece cut from a thin galvanised strip from a carpentry joist hanger), and you need to elongate the holes in the clamp in the direction towards its centre. I used a dremel with appropriate grinding and cutting accessories.
I suspect you can just take the L bracket thats on the gearbox off and wack it in a vise, seen them badly out of shape already when the exhaust has hit the ground
Make sure the clamp fits freely and doesn't stress the exhaust when you tighten it up, or you may have problems later on. Also make sure it holds the pipe securely - this will need shimming between the pipe and clamp if you use 51816520.

Alternatively you could just make something up from whatever you have lying around, but it needs to be sufficiently rigid to hold the pipe securely without stressing it. The OEM bracket is surprisingly strong.

Given the speed with which these usually rust away, coat it with anything you think might help protect it, but remember it gets quite hot in service. For some reason, it's only the part which attaches to the exhaust that seems to suffer; the bracket attached to the gearbox is usually solid, and even the bolt is likely to be reusable.

I've got a picture of the finished job somewhere; I'll see if I can dig it out.

Edit: found it, and attached it. If you look closely, you'll see that I've elongated the bolt holes toward the pipe side of the clip; there's also a steel shim wrapped around the pipe inside of the clamp, right where you can't see it.

Also, if you fit an aftermarket exhaust, it likely won't come with the integral clamps between the pipe sections, so you'll need to also buy a couple of U clamps of the correct size.
Cool, looks neat and nice and secure
 
I suspect from 03/2010- it's going to fit
It didn't fit mine, first registered 09/2010. I suspect the change came with the introduction of the 69HP Euro5 engine, which was shortly after this - I bought one of the last of the Euro4 cars.

My 500 is an early 2010 car, bought six months before the Panda, has a 69HP Euro5 engine and that does use the larger 51816520 clamp.
 
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First thing I did was was look on ePER it's supplied with the manicat, so the numbers not there. That's not to say there isn't one
I spent quite a lot of time failing to find one. I couldn't make out a part number on what was left of the old one, either. For it to have been supplied only with the manicat fits with what we know.

Some third party factors, and quite a few ebay types, list one for the 60HP 1.2, but actually what they supply is a 51816520 or a pattern equivalent.

ECP will sell you aftermarket exhaust sections in the correct size, but the quality is absolute rubbish.
 
I did get the whole exhaust from an eBay supplier for £80 recently but there are two sizes of pipe and the 2011 car has the larger one which caused a few issues, Anything less than £80 would seem to be great.

My tip is to make sure you have the back and centre sections correcly slotted in and overlapped as it seems they tend to come adrift there without a lot of provocation.
 
and the 2011 car has the larger one
and that one is almost certainly the same as the one used on the 500, so likely to be far more readily available.

When I needed one of the narrower ones for my 2010 car, there was very little to choose from, and what I could find was crazy expensive for what it was.

Getting parts for the Euro4 169's is nowhere near as easy, nor as affordable, as it used to be. Any jobs needing significant parts should be planned well in advance - don't just assume you will be able to get what you need cheaply on the day.
 
and that one is almost certainly the same as the one used on the 500, so likely to be far more readily available.

When I needed one of the narrower ones for my 2010 car, there was very little to choose from, and what I could find was crazy expensive for what it was.

Getting parts for the Euro4 169's is nowhere near as easy, nor as affordable, as it used to be. Any jobs needing significant parts should be planned well in advance - don't just assume you will be able to get what you need cheaply on the day.
The place I bought from said they were all the same. Supplied the wrong one.... Fortulately a local place expanded the pipe and welded the resulting split so it now fits.
 
BTW is there anything like the original silencer? I am fed up with cheap Polish silencers that make weird noise at about 70 mph on the motorway. I went to a fiat dealer in my city and they said that the factory fitted exhausts don’t exist any more but there is some kind of equal quality replacement. They said that would be quite expensive and waste of money for such an old car…. I said I am willing to pay for the original sound of my beloved panda. They replied that it would be difficult to find those parts. Later at home I googled a lot and found a dealer that offers Italian exhaust pipes and silencers - Asso is the company. The price is about the same as the Polish afternarket pipes. I wonder if Asso is the mysterious company that makes those official authorised pipes for Panda.
 
There are exhaust manufacturers that have automated production. When a car is current, those manufacturers make thousands for the production line, a few of which may get put into parts stock.
As soon as production ends, so does that source, as they then tool up for the next model. The specifications and drawings are then passed to an alternative manufacturer, who can make small batches, so even early on, a genuine Fiat replacement will not be identical to the original. Sometimes those approved suppliers can be identified, sometimes not so easy. Being the Panda was made in Poland, the original source is also likely to be there. The Italian manufacturer is probably just another aftermarket manufacturer.

When my back box eventually got old, I had a stainless system made for it. Should now outlast me. I was offerred three different noise levels, close to standard (which I chose), slightly louder, or 'sporty'. No promise of different power, just noise levels.

Are there such options in Czech Republic?
 
The original are well made and last well and cost nearly £100

I payed under £25 including clamps from a motor factor, it sounded okay to me, no idea what make it was, they supply parts to the motor trade

I suspect some of the online ones will not have as much packing and made from thinner metal, cost saving

Price or brand probably will not help much if buying cheap online as adverts could be for anything. Just like buying NKG sparkplugs online, you probably only have a 50/50 chance that it will be a genuine NKG from the cheaper suppliers
 
There are exhaust manufacturers that have automated production. When a car is current, those manufacturers make thousands for the production line, a few of which may get put into parts stock.
As soon as production ends, so does that source, as they then tool up for the next model. The specifications and drawings are then passed to an alternative manufacturer, who can make small batches, so even early on, a genuine Fiat replacement will not be identical to the original. Sometimes those approved suppliers can be identified, sometimes not so easy. Being the Panda was made in Poland, the original source is also likely to be there. The Italian manufacturer is probably just another aftermarket manufacturer.

When my back box eventually got old, I had a stainless system made for it. Should now outlast me. I was offerred three different noise levels, close to standard (which I chose), slightly louder, or 'sporty'. No promise of different power, just noise levels.

Are there such options in Czech Republic?
There are definitely companies that make stainless exhaust systems but Inonly found one that offers stainless for alfa or punto. It seems they don’t expect panda owners to be interested. Anyway my fiat dealer and garage has already found the compsny that makes those semi-original exhaust systems. Tbe silencer will cost equivalent of cca 200 pounds which seems reasonable if the sound will match the sound of the original box. Thanks for the explanation of the way exhausts are made for factory cars and later manufactured somewhere else.
 
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