Technical Error code P0236 & 0238

[theoneandonly]

Just a thought regards DPF blockage. I was watching a YouTube video regarding Land Rover V6 engines and the recommended oils. Our Ducato handbook lists 2 grades of oil, SAE 0W-30 and SAE 5W-40.

Would the 5W-40 help reduce DPF blocking?

What grade oil is being used in engines that fail prematurely?

The very first handbooks were erroniously printed with the euro 5 reccomendation of 5w-30. 0-30 has always been reccomendation for the twin egr euro6. the 0w purely to get the lowest emmission. If you have a reccomendation of 5-40 that is a mistake.

 

[CheeseMonster]

I think the best bet is a low ash oil, changed fairly frequently safest option.

"A3/B3 is a high SAPS, sulfated ash, phosphorous and sulfur, oil. High SAPS oil will plug DPF or GPF, so you do not want to use these oils in vehicles with DPF or GPF. C3 is a mid SAPS oil. It is designed for DPF or GPF."

But what weight oil? If YOU read the hand book it recommends C2. The point I'm trying to make is that 0W-30 is like water and will easily seep into the combustion chamber and out through the DPF. A a heavier oil may contribute less to DPF blockage

 

[CheeseMonster]

The very first handbooks were erroniously printed with the euro 5 reccomendation of 5w-30. 0-30 has always been reccomendation for the twin egr euro6. the 0w purely to get the lowest emmission. If you have a reccomendation of 5-40 that is a mistake.

So you don't think Fiat could have made a mistake recommending 0W-30? Do Fiat recommend a different weight oil for hot climates?

0W-30 is recommended to improve fuel economy so they can meet emissions, I doubt they gave much thought to oil consumption while it sat on a dyno trying to meet some standard.

If oil of the correct C rating but of a higher viscosity could be used it would be easier and cheaper than replacing the DPF etc.

 

[bugsymike]

But what weight oil? If YOU read the hand book it recommends C2. The point I'm trying to make is that 0W-30 is like water and will easily seep into the combustion chamber and out through the DPF. A a heavier oil may contribute less to DPF blockage

I didn't see which version and age yours was, this Auto Data Manual is a 2012 version, the other page is the special notes 107 re Fiat oil etc.

 

[Fredastaire]

Unfortunately those of us with early Euro 6 non Adblue Ducatos are seeing the problems now with this technical emissions design. Some countries of the globe would have appeared to have had recalls and components changed plus software updates. The UK and a good number of EU countries saw no recalls. If your van was dealer serviced then there is a chance that your software was updated (without the owner knowing). It's also clear that there are many vans not showing problems maybe the software update stopped the damage. Mine is one of the victims. I only use quality low ash oil, change it frequently and only use high spec diesel. I'm mentally prepared to have the cooler changed every few years as the way to live with the situation and it just be part of servicing costs.
If you investigate the Peugeot and Citroen Euro 6 then there is an equally scary tale of expensive Adblue failures of fifth injectors / replacement tanks, there is big money involved. We are not on our own.

 

[Communicator]

I find myself puzzled by the use of the phrase "weight of oil". I can only assume that it arises from a misinterpretation of the "W" used when denoting oil viscosity.
The viscosity of early oils changed more markedly with temperature. It was common practice to use different viscosity oils in summer and winter. So for example an SAE20 oil in winter, being changed for SAE50 in summer. With the development of viscostatic oils this seasonal change was no longer necessary. The "W" denotes the winter grade, so an SAE20W/50 oil could replace an SAE20 oil in winter, and an SAE50 in summer.
SAE is an abbreviation for the (US) Society of Automotive Engineers, and in this context refers to their definition of oil viscosity.
I find myself wondering as to how possible oils with a viscosity of less than SAE0 will be/are labelled?

 

[bugsymike]

I find myself puzzled by the use of the phrase "weight of oil". I can only assume that it arises from a misinterpretation of the "W" used when denoting oil viscosity.
SAE is an abbreviation for the (US) Society of Automotive Engineers, and in this context refers to their definition of oil viscosity.

Not a description we use, but I have heard in mentioned in US literature, when describing the oil grade.

 

[theGman]

You may find benefit in joining us on the main P0401....thread and reading through then buying multiecuscan, (MES).
@theoneandonly can guide you through making templates of certain components results then doing a road run to record data.
You will read that I've been through the whole saga. I consider there may be benefit in changing the turbo solenoid however if your van is our twin EGR model then you may be the next victim of the blocked cooler syndrome.....

@theoneandonly just trying to get my head around all the information on a mes scan, how do I set up a new template? Thanks.

 

[theoneandonly]

So you don't think Fiat could have made a mistake recommending 0W-30? Do Fiat recommend a different weight oil for hot climates?

0W-30 is recommended to improve fuel economy so they can meet emissions, I doubt they gave much thought to oil consumption while it sat on a dyno trying to meet some standard.

If oil of the correct C rating but of a higher viscosity could be used it would be easier and cheaper than replacing the DPF etc.

I dont think oil consumption is an issue for most people, ive never had to add oil between changes but change every year.
The number of people suffering "LPegr cooler system failure" "Twin egr syndrome" or whatever you want to call it is relatively small in respect to the total number of Motorhomes built let alone white vans, a significant number none the less

@theoneandonly just trying to get my head around all the information on a mes scan, how do I set up a new template? Thanks.

Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis.

This was originally written to help one person with his Ducato totally new to MES to start saving data. it is not an exhaustive manual nor intended to be. Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis. Open...

www.fiatforum.com

This should help with a number of issues.
To create a template one way is to start with a blank page. Click on a left hand box line turns red at end of selection press control and a number key together eg ctl 1. To select a template press number. If you have difficulty getting mes runing the multiecuscan.net manual is good. Any other issues

 

[CheeseMonster]

I dont think oil consumption is an issue for most people, ive never had to add oil between changes but change every year.

Is there not the possibility of some dilution of the oil when extra fuel is added during regens? If one does not see a drop in oil level, could this be be due to dilution?

I put about 500ml of oil in between services and have covered 24,000 miles in 6 years.

 

[theoneandonly]

Is there not the possibility of some dilution of the oil when extra fuel is added during regens? If one does not see a drop in oil level, could this be be due to dilution?

I put about 500ml of oil in between services and have covered 24,000 miles in 6 years.

Yes dilution can occur but is accounted for in the oil degradation algorithym.

 

[theGman]

Problem still ongoing. Fiat garage have just replaced all injectors but still getting error code. So now seeking advice from Fiat Italy. They suspect the ecu, not covered by warranty.

 

[bugsymike]

Problem still ongoing. Fiat garage have just replaced all injectors but still getting error code. So now seeking advice from Fiat Italy. They suspect the ecu, not covered by warranty.

Easy option, something not covered by warranty. It used to be standard practice with modern vehicle electrical faults to blame the ECU when usually something outside it that they haven't located like a sensor. I am retired now, but the only time I had to send an ECU for repair was an immobiliser issue.
Obviously if water has got inside it that would be different.

 

[theGman]

Easy option, something not covered by warranty. It used to be standard practice with modern vehicle electrical faults to blame the ECU when usually something outside it that they haven't located like a sensor. I am retired now, but the only time I had to send an ECU for repair was an immobiliser issue.
Obviously if water has got inside it that would be different.

Spoke with workshop manager today, ECU passed all tests suggested by Fiat Italy. He also informed me he has two other motorhomes in with same problems, both of those have had injectors and turbo replaced, both vans similar age to my van. He now says they will not do any more diagnosis until the 24th October when a specialst from Fiat Italy will visit the garage,

 

[bugsymike]

Not being rude , but is this why so many newish Motorhomes have low mileages, they are spending all their time at the Fiat Dealerships.

 

[theGman]

Not being rude , but is this why so many newish Motorhomes have low mileages, they are spending all their time at the Fiat Dealerships.

Oh I have thick skin, The problem is the motorhome cost so much I need to fix it. We like the layout , size and pratcicalty of it, I'd struggle to find an alternative model. So need to persevere

 

[bugsymike]

Oh I have thick skin, The problem is the motorhome cost so much I need to fix it. We like the layout , size and pratcicalty of it, I'd struggle to find an alternative model. So need to persevere

For reliability I liked the old Iveco Daily 2.8 vans, I had five of those and only one Ducato and I only bought that from one of my customers to put the engine in my boat.

 

[Fredastaire]

@theGman sorry to hear of your wait with the dealer. I hope that you can sweet talk your service man into letting you know what the Fiat Italy guy establishes as the reasons for the failures and then add notes on here as there are many of us struggling with these Euro 6 non adblue variants and need educating as to how to get around problems.
All the best and kind regards.

 

[theGman]

@theGman sorry to hear of your wait with the dealer. I hope that you can sweet talk your service man into letting you know what the Fiat Italy guy establishes as the reasons for the failures and then add notes on here as there are many of us struggling with these Euro 6 non adblue variants and need educating as to how to get around problems.
All the best and kind regards.

@Fredastaire I'll keep updating as I find out more info, unfortunately I'll not be back home until 8/9 November so will have to find out what I can over the phone, rather than in person.

 

[jansla]

As this thread is dealing with just this combination of faults P0238 and P0236, I think my update may be useful for someone in the future. See #45.
My story has begun 4 moths ago.
Last week the van was being tested and examined for the second time by my local Fiat workshop. They spent a lot of hours testing. Nothing cheap for my part. For the first time something was found! But I could not believe. They said that the MAP sensor was not the right one! I bought the motorhome as brand new. Mechanic has discovered that the MAP sensor mounted from the factory was Bosch 0281 006 028. According to the Fiat’s specification it should be 0281 006 076! How could this happen that the factory has mounted wrong one?? And another question (not answered by now) how could this wrong sensor been doing well for 5 years? As I could read in Bosch catalogue found here https://www.boschaftermarket.com/xr...y_specific/it/xx_pdfs_28/catalogs/sensori.pdf the right sensor for my van is 0281 006 076 indeed, while the other one is used in Porsche 911, and some other Fiats as well. But anyway the sensor fitted in factory has not made my van performing like 911 by any means. The pressure range for the right one for Ducato is 0.2-3bar while that factory fitted in my van is 2-3bar. As boost pressure in Ducato is quite often around 1.5-2bar so the wrong sensor was not that much out of range so maybe this is possible explanation that it has worked quite fine for 5 years and no longer now when some soot has accumulated (as the fuel/air ratio could have been not optimal) and fault codes came into live…


Any way a new 0281 006 076 is now sitting in my intake manifold and I hope that it’ll do fine. My advice for all of you getting P0238 and P0236: just check if you have the right MAP-sensor- don’t rely on factory!


At least something being wrong was detected for the first time. By now I have driven only no more than 100km but no faults and no limp mode (fingers crossed).