Technical Engine Warning & Cruise Failure

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Technical Engine Warning & Cruise Failure

JohnCamper

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Hi,
New here, looking to solve my first Fiat problem...if you guys wouldn't mind helping?


2013 Ducato 130 Multijet (Swift) Motorhome "Comfortmatic" Auto Gearbox. 28k miles.


Yesterday, after a couple of hours driving to campsite, the cruise control stopped working, and the (amber) engine warning light came on. Not sure which happened first, it was nearing the end of my journey.
Driving home today, the van definitely has reduced power, the cruise control is not switching on when I turn the circular switch on the stick, although the dash light illuminates and extinguishes when turning the key, as expected, but the cruise control stick is dead. The check engine light is permanently on.
Trying to find the fuse for the cruise control...I seem to have a later version of the under-dashboard fuse panel, not the one shown everywhere for the 2013 model, but my user manual does not mention cruise control in the fuse allocation section. I've checked fuse #51 already (the fuse used on previous version), and its fine.

I will start checking fuses one by one tomorrow, but I'm wondering if you guys have some ideas or experience of how to start solving this. I could buy a diagnostic tool, if you think its a good idea. Reluctant to go straight to the main dealer, prefer to get stuck in myself.
Presumably the two faults are linked. Is it likely that a cruise control fault threw up the engine warning light? Or is it likely that an engine problem disabled the cruise control?

Thanks in advance.
John
 
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All fuses checked, in both fuse boxes, none blown.
I guess the ECU has locked out the cruise control as a precautionary measure in its programming.

Without any help, I guess it'll be either main dealer, private autoelectrician, or buy a diagnostic tool.
 
Hi and welcome


Sounds like a form of ...limp home..


Where are you based... somebody may have the correct kit to interrogate the ECU


BEFORE booking a dealer visit...

Unclamp the main engine batteries negative terminal for an hour..

It will then revert to factory settings

Worth a try

Charlie.. Near the M4
 
Hi Charlie, Thanks for the reply. I'm outside Warwick. J15 M40.
I just disconnected the battery, and am waiting now as you said.
Lets see if that resets anything.
Back in a bit.
 
Sadly, resetting the system did not work, the engine warning light came straight back on (upon startup).
Oddly, I've noticed that when I start the engine from cold, without any throttle blip, it grumbles and eventually stalls. However, if I give it a little blip, as I usually do, it revs up and runs fine, with the warning light still on of course. It has only done this since the problem occurred. Always started no problem before.
 
Gear changing is normal as far as I have noticed. The reduction in power did cause it to refuse to change up once or twice, presumably because there isn't enough power to handle a higher gear in a long but slight incline. Expected, I suppose.
Got any recommendations for a code reader?
I checked every fuse today, under the dash, and also in the engine bay. Nothing blown. I can't check relays etc tho.

Cheers Charlie.
 
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I think you have a switch connected to the brake pedal which is designed to knock off the cruise control if you touch the brake, it also cuts the fuel supply to engine when you brake to increase fuel economy.

They are a common problem on the Stilo so may be the same set up, the symptoms seem to fit, on the car the switch is located near the pivot on the upper part of the pedal (find and follow the wires).

You could try lifting the brake pedal a little with your foot and see if the cruise works it may help to confirm the switch is faulty.

They are very cheap but a little tricky to fit on the car may be easier on the Ducato a bit more room to see.
 
Got any recommendations for a code reader?
I checked every fuse today, under the dash, and also in the engine bay. Nothing blown. I can't check relays etc tho.

Cheers Charlie.

Hi again :)

The forum has plenty of users of MultiECUScan software

Mine is probably too old a version for your Ducato.. :eek:

Look on the register.. top of FF homepage


Other sensible option.. look for an Alfa Romeo specialist local to you

They use the correct kit too .. will be cheaper than FIAT dealer network

Local garages.. a bit hit and miss unfortunately

Charlie
 
I have been following this thread out of interest, and although I am not an expert I would like to offer my thoughts.

As seems to be emerging, I think that it is important to interrogate the ECU, and investigate the reported loss of power. It may well be that this is what is causing the cruise control problem.

Possibilities for power loss could be throttle body problems, or a sticking turbo control. These possibilities have not been mentioned. If a fault code suggests an EGR problem, then the balance of opinion from other threads and forums, seems to be that throttle body problems are the more probable cause.

cris1117 has added the possibility of a sticking brake pedal switch. I remember that possibility was mentioned on an earlier thread, but no confirmation was given.
 
Hi, just a quick update ... A local friendly garage has diagnostic software and will plug it in tomorrow. Result !
Secondly, I suspect that it is not the brake pedal switch because the engine struggles to find a stable idle and quickly stalls from a cold start, once I give it a rev-up it will run and idle as normal.
This leads me to think that there is something wrong on the engine/sensor/engine mgmt side, and not the brake switch.
I'll update after the diagnostic tomorrow.
 
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Problems around the cruise control and erroneous lights on the dashboard are often mentioned in connection with the infamous Fiat dash board warning light fault and/or earth strap failures...........

I'm so paranoid I never use the cruise control and keep the phone number for Cartronix on my bedside table....!

But this doesn't sound like quite the same thing....?

good luck with the diagnostics
 
Yes, the dashboard lights issue was a problem when I bought the motorhome.
However, I sent it to one of the companies that do the repair, and it has worked perfectly ever since.
Main dealer offered me a really generous discounted price of about £500 to replace the cluster unit, as I was slightly out of warranty, but I got it fixed myself for about a hundred quid if I remember rightly.
 
Got the motorhome down to the local friendly garage today.
Plugged it in and the faults that showed on his laptop were ...
DPF full
Cruise Control signal intermittent.

He reset (cleared) the faults, and the engine started and ran perfectly, but after a couple of minutes, the engine warning light came back on, presumably because of the clogged DPF.


I've had experience of DPF clogging on my work van, so I'm going to put some Wynns cleaner through the system, and have filled the tank with V-Power fuel (It has only had supermarket fuel recently).

How does the system perform a DPF regen in this engine? Is it passive or an active regen?

Moving to the intermittent Cruise Control signal... I don't know how to approach this ... Is the system going into "limp mode" and therefore reducing power, and shutting out the cruise control?

I won't know until I have cleared out the DPF.

Any thoughts appreciated.
John
 
And maybe scratch all that as it could well be the DPF sensor, now that I have researched this a bit more.
 
The system will always try to use passive regenerations where possible. If the DPF breaches a certain level of blockage and passive regens have been interrupted, or not been successful, it will run active regenerations. If that doesn't work you should get a warning light and the vehicle will progressively go into limp mode. I think that cruise control may be disabled automatically if limp mode is triggered.

The last resort is a forced regeneration which is carried out with the vehicle parked and gas to be started with diagnostic equipment. It will run at high rpm for about 20 minutes, get very hot and may belch out a lot of dirty smoke. It's recommended that the engine oil and filter should be changed after running a forced regen.

If that doesn't fix it, the options are removing the DPF for specialist cleaning or replacement. A company that I used to visit regularly, who ran a fleet of diesels on low speed trips around London, used to have to remove DPFs quite frequently and had some success cleaning them in their workshop by soaking them in coke for 24 hours and reverse jet washing, though it's not a recognised procedure!
 
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I should probably clarify some things as I feel some progress is being made at working through this problem:

1. The motorhome has always been used for long runs, and virtually never for short runs.
2. It last had an oil/filter change about 3 years ago, but has only done about 12K since then.
3. I have been guilty of putting supermarket fuel in it, but have started putting premium fuel in it just recently.
4. Due to the lockdown, the motorhome has not been used for 8 months, until 3 weeks ago.
5. I have no reason to suspect the DPF is blocked, as I regularly make the engine work hard deliberately, to avoid DPF issues.
6. After my friendly garage guy cleared the fault codes, the engine started and ran perfectly until the warning light came on again, so this suggests that limp mode is being activated not because of a mechanical fault (blocked DPF) but in fact by an incorrect signal from somewhere, now thought to be the DPF sensor.


Okay ... so the ECU flagged up the DPF, and also an intermittent Cruise Control signal.
I am going to ignore the Cruise Control issue right now, because it is not responsible for the grumpy engine starting idle, and as both issues happened at the same time, I suspect the Cruise problem is a consequence of the DPF problem activating limp mode to some extent, intentionally knocking out the cruise for safety reasons.
So...If the ECU is pointing at the DPF, but I have no reason to think it's blocked, then the DPF pressure sensor becomes a suspect.
After doing hours of digging on the net, it has become clear that there are MANY reports of the DPF pressure sensor (on this age of Ducato's) becoming unreliable/faulty for a few reasons. Water ingress being the main one, and poor quality components being the second common culprit. I can get a good quality sensor replacement for thirty odd quid (I think), and swapping it is easy, so thats my plan.

I hope I'm on the right track. I only know what I read, and I have read a lot. For an untrained bloke, I don't have the experience of you guys, so I'm just using the general mechanical/electrical experience that I do have, and some logic.

Very grateful to you guys for helping with this. Will update when sensor is replaced.


p.s. Whats the oil quality index?
 
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