Technical Engine Oil For TwinAir.

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Technical Engine Oil For TwinAir.

I just returned a 19k miles, 3 yo TA Panda 4x4 to the dealership, after it didn't run properly when warmed up and I had found that the wrong oil was on the receipt for the last service. Workshop manager confirmed that the vehicle information system says to use 5W40 instead of 0W30 and they used a standard Ultra S instead of Selenia.

I did not wait to see how it ran after the oil change, as there were other things wrong with the car: undisclosed hit to the OS front suspension, brake disks 0.2mm off the wear limit, clutch judder (dual mass flywheel?) and went for a new one.

I would not be too worried about the TwinAir unit if the car has been well looked after, but would factor in a potential change of the unit, in the long run. The engine itself should be fairly robust.

I agree that modern engines are not as reliable as older ones, as there are more things to go wrong. An old 1.8 litre 4-cylinder NA engine is bulletproof, but anything with a turbo will need replacing expensive parts around 100k miles.

The twinair unit is actually quite "cheap" for what it is, and is easily replaceable (easier than the tappets under an overhead cam).

But it is definitely something to be aware of.
 
I have a history of Italian motorbikes (Guzzi LM1000 and Morini 3 1/2), so the idea of looking after an engine, closer oil change intervals with high spec oil, and waiting for an engine to warm up, is somewhat in my DNA. So I guess the TwinAir will be an engine I can live with :)
 
What an absolute brilliant thread this is, and that document from INA Schaeffler is truly eye opening.

Now though, I am completely confused and a bit worried.

Here's the scan from the manual of my March 2012 Panda..

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And that, (5w-40) is exactly what I've been putting in our panda ever since it was two years old. Ably assisted by some threads on here, I am currently running Castrol Edge of the correct spec

I have Multiecuscan and after every oil change I carry out the oil change reset and immediately on restarting the engine it runs rough as hell, settling down for a few minutes. Reading the document just posted on here makes me suspect that this is a symptom of maybe this oil is just too thick!

Also see this thread of mine https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/457524-annual-mot-twinair-emission-woes.html with problems I have every MOT

Perhaps this is a symptom also of the 'Incorrect' oil?? Thicker oil will hold the inlet valves open for longer in the Uniair unit and thus possibly give the 'too lean' mixture indication in the Lambda reading.

So, where do I go from here? Shall I try 0W-30 and hope all the issues disappear? ..Incidentally, If I put the vehicle reg into SHop4Parts' online selector it states 0W-30 whereby Opie Oils states 5W-40 :bang:

Vic
 
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No worries, you did nothing wrong.

Your 2012 engine is calibrated for the 5W40 oil (Selenia Digitek as well, IIRC). Stick to the one in your handbook. The oil spec was changed in 2014, I believe.

That's partially were all the confusion comes from. Dealers who have serviced Twin Airs for years, now have to use different oils for the old and the new ones.

But with respect to your problems, I'd try the exact oil as specified. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the 5W40 spec only defines two points on the viscosity over temperature graph, the rest is undefined. So the only oil that will work exactly as advertised is the one that FPT calibrated the system with - and that's the Selenia.

Although I would not put my money on it, it's worth a try. The Castrol oils aren't exactly cheap, just easier to get hold of.
 
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Vic, you could try 0w 30 C2 and reset on MES. Someone on here had 0w 30 diesel Selenia as a temporary measure in his TA and said it did run better before the correct red cans were obtained.
 
It's why I say that keeping a 3yr old car you've owned from new is a very different decision to buying a 3yr old car off the forecourt.
I bought my 12 reg with 26500 miles on it with a full fiat history....But at £240 a service...i would rather self service...Twinair engines dont self distruct after three years unless you accept it.
 
Nothing to be said against self servicing. To the contrary, I'd trust myself more than any garage. But skimping on the oil, parts, or doing the service without the readouts, resetting ecu, etc., without the expertise, based on hearsay.... That's a different story.
 
Nothing to be said against self servicing. To the contrary, I'd trust myself more than any garage. But skimping on the oil, parts, or doing the service without the readouts, resetting ecu, etc., without the expertise, based on hearsay.... That's a different story.

One reason I decided on a 1.2 at 33 months old. Although it had three stamps in the book two of which were from a Fiat main dealer.... There was not a bit of proof they were done. For a car that had done 100 odd miles since an alleged service from a main dealer, the oil was dirty, the filter was marked 2015, the pollen filter and air filter were original as were the plugs, I shudder to think how a TA would have been after this sort of nonsense.
At least now its only myself to blame as I do my own work in the knowledge it is done correctly with the right stuff
 
One reason I decided on a 1.2 at 33 months old. Although it had three stamps in the book two of which were from a Fiat main dealer.... There was not a bit of proof they were done. For a car that had done 100 odd miles since an alleged service from a main dealer, the oil was dirty, the filter was marked 2015, the pollen filter and air filter were original as were the plugs, I shudder to think how a TA would have been after this sort of nonsense.
At least now its only myself to blame as I do my own work in the knowledge it is done correctly with the right stuff

Can't speak for the others but a pollen filter wouldn't have been changed as part of a regular service as they as part of it and few people pay for the extra work doing
As oil could have been changed with a pump device leaving a quality of old oil in the engine that made the e new oil black
 
Its very doubtful the oil in a petrol engine under 20, 000 miles even if "drained" by a Pela pump or WHO would be so dirty, also with the fast turn around of oil filters why was it marked 2015? Also no receipts for work just stamps in the book. The other worrying thing when I approached the dealer concerned I asked for copies of the services but they couldn't locate the necessary files.
I made a written complaint to them on this and the blatent lie of fitting a new drivers door seal after purchase which was not done.
One reason I'd never return to them even if they offered me a new Panda free of charge!!
 
Even the Petronas (Manufacturer of Selenia) Oil selector recommends a different oil from the 5W-40 grade in my manual!

See attachment.
 

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Nothing to be said against self servicing. To the contrary, I'd trust myself more than any garage. But skimping on the oil, parts, or doing the service without the readouts, resetting ecu, etc., without the expertise, based on hearsay.... That's a different story.
Why would you re sett the ECU?? OEM parts used .Get wallet raped thats your call.
 
The twin air requires a "UniAir actuator dispersion correction" to be performed after changing the oil. The uniair technology needs to know the viscosity of the oil in order to get the valve timings spot on. That's why the colleagues at Fiat specified a specific oil, as they (and most likely colleagues at INA/Schaeffler, and some Universities that were involved in the development of that technology) have all the test data, how this oil's viscosity changes with temperature and degradation. Over time the viscosity will decrease slightly, the uniair module will adapt its controller parameters accordingly. If you don't tell it that you have replaced the oil with fresh one, which will have a higher viscosity, as it's less degraded, it cannot do that and will operate on the parameters for the lower viscosity oil, delaying your valve timings, as the response times will be higher.

So in order for the engine to run at its best, it is required that it gets the correct oil (Selenia Digitek P.E. - 5W40 for Euro5 engines, 0W30 for Euro6 engines) and knows the age of the oil.

In this thread you yourself provided evidence that you used the wrong oil and didn't adjust the uniair control parameters after the oil change - that's what I mean with "without the expertise". But I'm afraid you are in good company, as many Fiat garages don't know this and will happily tell you that all twin airs need any 5W40 and have no clue that there is another routine to be performed on the computer.
 
That's great, how do you carry out the actuator dispersion correction?
 
Haven't done it yet, but I'm told MultiECUScan will do the job. Apparently there's two steps to that, first tell it that an oil change was done and then run the dispersion correction. Although I haven't tried that yet, so am myself working off possibly obsolete information, and the procedure might have changed.
 
Haven't done it yet, but I'm told MultiECUScan will do the job. Apparently there's two steps to that, first tell it that an oil change was done and then run the dispersion correction. Although I haven't tried that yet, so am myself working off possibly obsolete information, and the procedure might have changed.
Ok ...so answer me this then...oil and filter done last September...5300 miles later with no Eml light on and loss of power..Reset is only on the diesel engine.Each to their own bud..
When the car is driven after service the Ecu learns that fresh oil has been changed..thus resetting itself.Check alfa owners club /mito...
 
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Do you get that knowledge from doing research on the subject?

Check out this screenshot from Multiecuscan:



So to answer Jackwhoo's question: Yes, Multiecuscan will do it, 50 quid seems a reasonable price for a software that can do everything the garage's software can - and for peace of mind that all the settings are correct. But I would not recommend playing around with it and pushing any buttons you don't know what they do. Could be embarrassing to explain to the dealer that you messed with your ECU and broke it.

There seem to be two versions of the injection/engine controller. One has Oil Change and Dispersion Correction, the other one only Oil Change setting.

Phil's Panda: The diesel reset is for engine oil degradation, different thing. While the ECU has some learning capability the oil change parameter reset is still required. Traditional knowledge does not apply to these engines! I checked, the Alpha Romeo forum seems better informed on this matter than the Fiat forum.
 
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