Technical Engine management staying on after starting engine all of a sudden - fine day before

[trekkingnut]

Thanks for reply - I was thinking more on the other side of the plug - i.e sensor itself got some crap in it perhaps? - I am not sure of course if the light simply needs to be told to go out once it has come on which brings me back to looking at getting a simple light reset gadget for the qubo - minefield out there though . I saw this one cheap on ebay but no idea if it would do the job.

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[bugsymike]

Thanks for reply - I was thinking more on the other side of the plug - i.e sensor itself got some crap in it perhaps? - I am not sure of course if the light simply needs to be told to go out once it has come on which brings me back to looking at getting a simple light reset gadget for the qubo - minefield out there though . I saw this one cheap on ebay but no idea if it would do the job.

There is advise online about careful cleaning of Sensors like that, but they can be easily damaged. Generally I just spray them with good quality switch cleaner.
Many cheap diagnostic tools can delete codes , but not all of them. Mind you at that price it may be\ worth a shot, you could always ask the vendor?

 

[trekkingnut]

I have only used switch cleaner on the plug even though it looked clean and agree it is best to not mess about with the sensor. No idea how to remove it anyway as it has funny metal bands securing it rather than good old jubilee clips and i would not want to risk breaking them in addition to knackering the sensor! - I see the sensor itself is fairly cheap on ebay and fits euro 4/5 and 6 engines but loads of different makes. Bosch probably the one to get if doing it myself and can work out how to safely remove the bands but will probably end up getting garage to do it and just pinch my nose! There is a lot of vibration in that area at idle so can understand why plug could cause light to come on but the handbook says light should go off once issue resolved which means the issue is either not resolved or the handbook is wrong and the light can only be turned off with a diagnostic code reader/reset. As you say it may be worth trying a cheap code reader/reset to see if indeed I have resolved issue. OBD2 16pin connector is the one to get so will ask sellers advice on the EML reset. Best get to work now - with EML on of course!

 

[bugsymike]

I have only used switch cleaner on the plug even though it looked clean and agree it is best to not mess about with the sensor. No idea how to remove it anyway as it has funny metal bands securing it rather than good old jubilee clips and i would not want to risk breaking them in addition to knackering the sensor! - I see the sensor itself is fairly cheap on ebay and fits euro 4/5 and 6 engines but loads of different makes. Bosch probably the one to get if doing it myself and can work out how to safely remove the bands but will probably end up getting garage to do it and just pinch my nose! There is a lot of vibration in that area at idle so can understand why plug could cause light to come on but the handbook says light should go off once issue resolved which means the issue is either not resolved or the handbook is wrong and the light can only be turned off with a diagnostic code reader/reset. As you say it may be worth trying a cheap code reader/reset to see if indeed I have resolved issue. OBD2 16pin connector is the one to get so will ask sellers advice on the EML reset. Best get to work now - with EML on of course!

This is the tool for the most common clips, one way takes it off , the other reclips it. It may be possible with a pair of pincers, but best use the tool.

 

[trekkingnut]

thanks

This is the tool for the most common clips, one way takes it off , the other reclips it. It may be possible with a pair of pincers, but best use the tool.

for that - may look at getting one as assume MAF sensor just needs to be directly replaced if light won`t go out and easy to do once those pesky clips oare removed. May be an idea to replace them with Jubilee clips anyway.

 

[bugsymike]

thanks

for that - may look at getting one as assume MAF sensor just needs to be directly replaced if light won`t go out and easy to do once those pesky clips oare removed. May be an idea to replace them with Jubilee clips anyway.

If it is the same clips I used the tool for they can be reused no problem.

 

[The Panda Nut]

If it is the same clips I used the tool for they can be reused no problem.

Now I have the Click R pliers I prefer these things to jubilee clips where access is suitable. Quick and easy and they put a pretty even pressure round the pipes so much more suitable for plastic pipework as you wont overtighten and break the pipe.
My US Pro pair were only £4.80 from eBay a couple of years back.
Fiats other trick is little push clips that simply lever up from the centre very little force needed but sometimes difficult to see.

 

[trekkingnut]

Thanks for the info and the clips are same as pictured. My cheapo scanner came today (£8 inc postage) so I gave it a go and it did the trick. Only thing is there were 3 codes - P0096 and Poo96P (pending I believe) and P0100 - all air sensors relating to the item previously pictured I believe?

I cleared the codes, light was off so went for a drive, came back and scanned again and the P0096 P code was there again. I started engine and no light on so just cleared code again (i say cleared it - the scanner says erase failed but when rescanning says no codes). I did have an oil/filter service 1800 miles ago and was reading online about air filters causing problems with MAF sensors so is there anything in that? - not checked to see if air filter cover fitted properly but may be worth looking at. be annoying if it was the garage that caused the issue but I will reserve judgment for now.

 

[trekkingnut]

Its a VC300 CAN OBD11 scan tool - loads on ebay at £12.99 but mine was on offer! - basic but did what they claimed

 

[The Panda Nut]

I found with our 1.2 at 80K we used to get pooling of a little oil in the inlet manifold. I dont suppose this makes much difference to anything but keeping it cleaned out (annually seemed to do it) made a big difference and seemed to help keep the MAF clean. I have catch cans on both our 1.2s which seem to largely prevent any oil or moisture getting near the airbox, air filter throttle body or manifold. I feel they are worthwhile. Much easier to mount in the 319 than the 169 however. I hope it is all resolved. I only ever use Magneti Marelli or FPT filters as I feel these things are pretty vital for the engine survival and not worth the possible risk with any economy versions. I cant really see how anyone could misfit an air filter or airbox lid. Ive not heard about filter / MAF issues either.

 

[trekkingnut]

I found with our 1.2 at 80K we used to get pooling of a little oil in the inlet manifold. I dont suppose this makes much difference to anything but keeping it cleaned out (annually seemed to do it) made a big difference and seemed to help keep the MAF clean. I have catch cans on both our 1.2s which seem to largely prevent any oil or moisture getting near the airbox, air filter throttle body or manifold. I feel they are worthwhile. Much easier to mount in the 319 than the 169 however. I hope it is all resolved. I only ever use Magneti Marelli or FPT filters as I feel these things are pretty vital for the engine survival and not worth the possible risk with any economy versions. I cant really see how anyone could misfit an air filter or airbox lid. Ive not heard about filter / MAF issues either.

Neither had I but there is a quite a bit on it via google search though some is clearly rubbish such as blaming a certain brand of filter. My air filter box looks ok but I can see one clip has been removed before close to the sensor and when last serviced just 1700 miles ago I recall they had hassles with air and oil filters and the quick oil/filter while you wait service ended up as a late afternoon job as suppliers had sent the wrong filters meaning engine was exposed all morning with covers off. Could that have been an issue? - only guessing but vehicle only done 27k from new! Can also see edge of filter from outside of airbox - see pics - is that normal? - looks like it is all bolted on ok though

 

[trekkingnut]

I also had to go back to have some oil removed as they put oil in it up past the cross hatched area of dipstick to the top of the next part before main dipstick starts (around 4mm - 5mm). Think it all ended as a rush job - I hate garages!!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Neither had I but there is a quite a bit on it via google search though some is clearly rubbish such as blaming a certain brand of filter. My air filter box looks ok but I can see one clip has been removed before close to the sensor and when last serviced just 1700 miles ago I recall they had hassles with air and oil filters and the quick oil/filter while you wait service ended up as a late afternoon job as suppliers had sent the wrong filters meaning engine was exposed all morning with covers off. Could that have been an issue? - only guessing but vehicle only done 27k from new! Can also see edge of filter from outside of airbox - see pics - is that normal? - looks like it is all bolted on ok though

In ours, until the last change it only ever had FPT Fiat filters. I really can't see any physics based reason for it except. Bad filters that dont work allow grit and dust through causing excess wear. Bad filter not allowing enough air through, but all this would do is wreck economy and performance, so I think thats just noise. Being left cover off is not going to affect it. They could have just bumped it and that might be why is gone wrong, or the connector could be the cause. Poor contact or bent pins / pulled wire. Having said that, in the TA I would NEVER NEVER use anything but genuine Fiat filtration, the risk is severe in that a bad filter or improperly fitted one could allow dirt into the oil that may affect the uniair module. This being THE precision bit that is the heart of the motor requires ultimate respect!!! The TA air filter is a tiny thing so again itis vitally important its maintained. I once had a Citroen BX turbo that had a chip taken off a turbine blade, after anair filter service. It then whined badly ever after. After that I never let anyone near my turbo engines unless fully trained and experienced and known to me. I always vacuum the air box and blow with high pressure air to ensure absolute cleanliness when fitting air filters. With a TA Im even more obsessive.
I really cant recommend MES highly enough. If you have two Fiats you will get your money back and the reassurance of having this and the ability to see graphically what is going on is substantial. Parts prices now being so high MES seems to me a no brainer. Mes enables me to discuss, and direct work in the car with confidence.

If I were in your shoes I would

1. get MES or find someone to plug in for a confirmation diagnosis or get Fiat to diagnose when the light is on
2. Get some CLick R clip pliers
3. Check the wires and pins and clean with contact cleaner
4. Change the air sensor - obsessive attention to cleanliness

The trouble with computer control, is it is only as good as the programmer, Faults may be a weeny light building to a HUGE problem or an annoying light for pretty nearly notghing at all. Thats what I hate. Sometimes tiny things cause lights to shine!

I think its really computer Con Troll.

PS I hope you are using only (S4P24796) Selenia Digitek Pure Energy - 0w/30 in bold is shop 4 parts reference number. Their price recently was amazing!

Post oil change there is a minor reset to do on the TA. If they didnt know which filters the car takes, they won't know about this. Again being high tech, I think this is vital. The Computer needs to know when the oil is changed or it will not operate te Uni air cirrectly and it may well have expensive cosequences if mear results in that unit. MES will do this reset. Inow always do, or redo this on my TA after service si i know its been done.

 

[trekkingnut]

In ours, until the last change it only ever had FPT Fiat filters. I really can't see any physics based reason for it except. Bad filters that dont work allow grit and dust through causing excess wear. Bad filter not allowing enough air through, but all this would do is wreck economy and performance, so I think thats just noise. Being left cover off is not going to affect it. They could have just bumped it and that might be why is gone wrong, or the connector could be the cause. Poor contact or bent pins / pulled wire. Having said that, in the TA I would NEVER NEVER use anything but genuine Fiat filtration, the risk is severe in that a bad filter or improperly fitted one could allow dirt into the oil that may affect the uniair module. This being THE precision bit that is the heart of the motor requires ultimate respect!!! The TA air filter is a tiny thing so again itis vitally important its maintained. I once had a Citroen BX turbo that had a chip taken off a turbine blade, after anair filter service. It then whined badly ever after. After that I never let anyone near my turbo engines unless fully trained and experienced and known to me. I always vacuum the air box and blow with high pressure air to ensure absolute cleanliness when fitting air filters. With a TA Im even more obsessive.
I really cant recommend MES highly enough. If you have two Fiats you will get your money back and the reassurance of having this and the ability to see graphically what is going on is substantial. Parts prices now being so high MES seems to me a no brainer. Mes enables me to discuss, and direct work in the car with confidence.

If I were in your shoes I would

1. get MES or find someone to plug in for a confirmation diagnosis or get Fiat to diagnose when the light is on
2. Get some CLick R clip pliers
3. Check the wires and pins and clean with contact cleaner
4. Change the air sensor - obsessive attention to cleanliness

The trouble with computer control, is it is only as good as the programmer, Faults may be a weeny light building to a HUGE problem or an annoying light for pretty nearly notghing at all. Thats what I hate. Sometimes tiny things cause lights to shine!

I think its really computer Con Troll.

PS I hope you are using only (S4P24796) Selenia Digitek Pure Energy - 0w/30 in bold is shop 4 parts reference number. Their price recently was amazing!

Post oil change there is a minor reset to do on the TA. If they didnt know which filters the car takes, they won't know about this. Again being high tech, I think this is vital. The Computer needs to know when the oil is changed or it will not operate te Uni air cirrectly and it may well have expensive cosequences if mear results in that unit. MES will do this reset. Inow always do, or redo this on my TA after service si i know its been done.

Blimey! - that`s a very in depth reply and sounds very complex. I know the garage used the correct spec oil as they got it in especially. Some say filling to the shiny bit on top of the flat cross hatched area of dipstick is fine and others do not. I am in the not filling past cross hatched area camp. I know they connected their computer to it after the oil change so assume that was to do what you mentioned. I have not had the light on the last couple of times I have used it and I did use contact cleaner on the plug. air box is different to the fiorino I have and has extra bolts but not sure if they all need to come out or not as was tempted to take a peek at the filter to see if it was located properly. both mechanics have many years of experience and one would assume they could fit a filter properly blindfolded. Having said that, after a main dealer serviced when car was under Fiat care plan, engine was underfilled (1/4 of way into hatched area of dipstick), had oil on my drive after service because they had left oil all over the bottom of engine from draining it in a hurry - the oil/filter service and multipoint checking took them just 30 minutes and they tried to tell me it was over an hour but I saw the car go in 40 minutes late as was going to walk my dog when vehicle went in to kill time and barely got into it when they rang to say it was ready and also been jet washed which then cause the top mount bearings to seize on drivers side within 1000 miles of service as scuttle drains were not checked. They also broke the pollen filter cover and left it hanging off - VOSPERS - FIAT main dealers! never again!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Please do a review of them click on the directory tab. If they are that poor, they are another one I never ever want to go near. It helps us all go to the ones that perform properly if there are good and poor reviews,.

I have some sympathy for people breaking their box as I have now done two, and I knowthe risk. They are brittle and its nnot care needed but extreme care, Glad your light is off and I hope it stays off. These computer controlled things dirve me mad. Our latedt Panda was reported to habve flashed up a check mumber plate light warning on Friday. SO I have and there is nothing wrong with any of it. I have given it all a clean but why did the message come up? I dont know. I think Fiat have a link to when my pension gets paid and the car is linked to their money vacuum cleaner accordingly. lol
My TA service is usually done in 45 mins so I dont think there is much of substance to do, but spilling oil is bad, and they have an environmental protection duty of care. The least they could do is clean up and top up the oil. The full mark is the top of the hatched section and so you should not have it over that line or excess oil can end up causing issues in the emissions department which can be expensive. Desira have never spilled any oil on the TA or my Bravo which was another horrid job. They use lots of paper towel to catch any oil spills that are unavoidable I believe and this can then be properly disposed of. I think its a matter of pride in the work to change the oil without spilling it. Regrettably Fiat dealers only do the jobs on the service schedule so a quick clean of the brakes or cleaning scuttle drains is just not on their radar and I doubt they even know of these things. I had a fair old argument with my dealer about this and told them I want my car serviced with ALL the things that are needed done not a lot of stupid stuff like filling the screen washers. That is harldy service. I do now barter with them and trade some tasks off against more important stuff, but its hard work. I also ask them who will be doing the service so I can stop them if I think they are using someone I don't want. I do have a small independant garage I am using now where I can see whos doing the job. They have an interest in preserving their good name and tend to do things as well as possible, this helps.

 

[trekkingnut]

Please do a review of them click on the directory tab. If they are that poor, they are another one I never ever want to go near. It helps us all go to the ones that perform properly if there are good and poor reviews,.

I have some sympathy for people breaking their box as I have now done two, and I knowthe risk. They are brittle and its nnot care needed but extreme care, Glad your light is off and I hope it stays off. These computer controlled things dirve me mad. Our latedt Panda was reported to habve flashed up a check mumber plate light warning on Friday. SO I have and there is nothing wrong with any of it. I have given it all a clean but why did the message come up? I dont know. I think Fiat have a link to when my pension gets paid and the car is linked to their money vacuum cleaner accordingly. lol
My TA service is usually done in 45 mins so I dont think there is much of substance to do, but spilling oil is bad, and they have an environmental protection duty of care. The least they could do is clean up and top up the oil. The full mark is the top of the hatched section and so you should not have it over that line or excess oil can end up causing issues in the emissions department which can be expensive. Desira have never spilled any oil on the TA or my Bravo which was another horrid job. They use lots of paper towel to catch any oil spills that are unavoidable I believe and this can then be properly disposed of. I think its a matter of pride in the work to change the oil without spilling it. Regrettably Fiat dealers only do the jobs on the service schedule so a quick clean of the brakes or cleaning scuttle drains is just not on their radar and I doubt they even know of these things. I had a fair old argument with my dealer about this and told them I want my car serviced with ALL the things that are needed done not a lot of stupid stuff like filling the screen washers. That is harldy service. I do now barter with them and trade some tasks off against more important stuff, but its hard work. I also ask them who will be doing the service so I can stop them if I think they are using someone I don't want. I do have a small independant garage I am using now where I can see whos doing the job. They have an interest in preserving their good name and tend to do things as well as possible, this helps.

I totally agree re dealers. I hate then and would never have gone to Vospers had it not been for the fact that the other fiat dealer (Chalke in Wincanton) said they would only change the oil if the car told them to in spite of the fact that the Fiat care plan states the oil SHOULD be changed as part of the plan. They seemed obsessed with not getting paid for the service by Fiat so don`t rate them much either as they pretty much refused to do the work and i was not going to drive the 40 miles there to just have the tyres kicked! Light came on again but someone said you need to disconnect battery after resetting EML as it stores the MAF sensors performance or something like that so when it has been unplugged and plugged ibn again it thinks it is a new sensor (feel free to correct me on this if not the case) - anyway it seems to have worked as after a few drives it still says no codes stored now so I think the plug was disturbed on the service and got loose. Certainly the plastic tab thingy was not pushed `home` when I first had the light come on.

Am in the wrong section but do people sell their cars on the forum as Doblo camper is now for sale - all running well now I am driving it properly but have a 2 berth camper that can carry rear passengers which Doblo could not hence the sale albeit reluctant now all sorted out!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Yes you can place an advert as a forum member. Look in the classifieds menu tab. Go steady and it is fairly straightforward to do.