Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

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Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

Hello again, been away a while.
Read a few posts albeit a bit quickly
@jansla from the last data of yours i collected
Engine J  LPEGR 250516-file1 2.jpg

I typicaly use my template 4 to start with as it targeted at LPEGRcooler syndrome this is because it is regarded as low hanging fruit ie a too frequent problem with your error codes (Using problem solving techniques used at work as a Manufacturing engineer Aerospace and F1) . once this has been confirmed or denied then a different target or general approach can be found. The template has been honed over the years to also pick up other DPF related problems. To confirm existance of a blocked cooler there are a number of conditions i look at
1 Sooty exhaust
2 error codes from the group P0401,P0402,P236,7,8
3 LPEGR Valve violent move ment max to min no intermediate value
4 Low lpegr temperature
5 P0401 Freezframe data giving an anomalous value of 25% for air intake values
Your data has shown 1,2,3 but not 4 and 5 lpegr temp ok no P0401
It may have the begginings of a blocked cooler but i am convinced it is not blocked.
there was a statement made about this temperature measurement being a policeman for protecting parts from too high a temperature. It may be but,as I think you said the main reason for limmiting the temperature is to reduce charge temp (to a controlled level) in the cylindar and reducing NOx production is part of how the lpegr system works.The LP loop is best suited (used ) for high sppeeds and loads.
I have seen one example where a P0401 had not been thrown but a different one (cant remember but the temperature was about 30C).
@deejays I have added 2 csv files from 2023 that were taken with my template 7 a mutch more general targeted template simular to yours.
ps not actualy looked at them just seen your request (so whats wrong with my engine that I dont know about):)


To aid diagnosis of the turbo use a technique known as "wide open throttle pull"
warm engine then clear road and hold in 2nd or 3rd and plant the throtle to floor to 40000 revs then foot off untill idle and repeat (if enough road) use all turbo pids rpm,speed, pedal
 

Attachments

  • 5-6-23southam-7.csv
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  • 5--6-23daventry-7.csv
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Quick update - finally got round to replacing my DPF with a brand new one. Test run show no soot on exhaust at all now - so confirmes that the old one was cracked/faulty. CSV files showed everything working fine. ( I had already changed the cooler)
Apart from the injectors. They are still showing out of limit indications - up to 4.8 on number one and the others are not far behind.
IMG_7823.jpg

My main concern is that the injectors are causing overfueling, and therefore excess smoke/gasses which will eventualy lead to problems with the DPF again....
 
@athoirs you now have V32 so the original problem should be taken care off in terms of over fuelling, BUT there have been repeat failures because of excessive soot in the Intake system. Early repairs included new Injectors but Fiat hasnt done that this last year but does now include a new injection manifold in the parts list.
 
Thanks for the reply, I cleaned the intercooler as much as I could but I know there is soot still left in the intake after I replaced the MAP sensor some time back. I cleaned the muck as best I could on the throttle body. Is the recommendation now to change the intake manifold now? I thought about replacing for new one of the injectors to see if it makes a difference.
 
Oh and while I had the old DPF removed when I replaced the LPERG cooler last time I sent it away for cleaning and testing and it came back with a clean bill of health....
 
Quick update - finally got round to replacing my DPF with a brand new one. Test run show no soot on exhaust at all now - so confirmes that the old one was cracked/faulty. CSV files showed everything working fine. ( I had already changed the cooler)
Apart from the injectors. They are still showing out of limit indications - up to 4.8 on number one and the others are not far behind.
My main concern is that the injectors are causing overfueling, and therefore excess smoke/gasses which will eventualy lead to problems with the DPF again....
Are you measuring the injector correction values at idle only with a fully warmed up engine as that is the only condition the test is valid?
 
Hello again, been away a while.
Read a few posts albeit a bit quickly
Welcome back @theoneandonly , your absence had been noted. I would be interested in viewing a file from your engine in MESs - thank you , very much appreciated. However the two file you have provided have been changed so they can not be viewed in MES. I could open them and rearrange the data to suit, so it could be read - but therein lies an issue - manipulating data always carries the risk of introducing errors and corruption of data. This is one of the reasons I prefer to simply use MES graphs for the analysis. I would be most appreciative if you could upload a file from your engine - particularly to the revised template I posted on page 87. What HP is your engine?
 
Welcome back @theoneandonly , your absence had been noted. I would be interested in viewing a file from your engine in MESs - thank you , very much appreciated. However the two file you have provided have been changed so they can not be viewed in MES. I could open them and rearrange the data to suit, so it could be read - but therein lies an issue - manipulating data always carries the risk of introducing errors and corruption of data. This is one of the reasons I prefer to simply use MES graphs for the analysis. I would be most appreciative if you could upload a file from your engine - particularly to the revised template I posted on page 87. What HP is your engine?
Its a 130. Ive not done a recent run to your template if you look at the ones i posted they are simular but not same. sorry but i will have at least renamed all the csv files i collect. I posterd this before . its out of factory Nov16 so an early one left Rapido may 17 i bought registered it March 18 2019 first service but had been back to dealers a couple of times for recall and Hab problems (by good luck or judgement the MH dealer is also a Fiat Pro and quite proactive) only problem is they are 200 mile away) so update to V28 with 2000 on clock.
 
Its a 130. Ive not done a recent run to your template if you look at the ones i posted they are simular but not same. sorry but i will have at least renamed all the csv files i collect. I posterd this before . its out of factory Nov16 so an early one left Rapido may 17 i bought registered it March 18 2019 first service but had been back to dealers a couple of times for recall and Hab problems (by good luck or judgement the MH dealer is also a Fiat Pro and quite proactive) only problem is they are 200 mile away) so update to V28 with 2000 on clock.
Thanks, the renaming is not the issue, rather the content structure. I would still be very interested if you could run my revised file as it would be a good exercise for me, but also an excellent reference for @jansla and any others with the 130HP variant.
 
Thanks, the renaming is not the issue, rather the content structure. I would still be very interested if you could run my revised file as it would be a good exercise for me, but also an excellent reference for @jansla and any others with the 130HP variant.
When is a CSV file not a CSV file
the files were directly exported from MES when created the problem is not at my end or Janslas but i suspect at your end.
what is a csv? file comma seperated variable NO its an ascii separated variable file. in the beggining the csv was created not knowing it would not work in mainland Europe as ,"comma" is typicaly used for decimal notation and not . "full stop" So for file variable delimitting the options of Tab, space ,"comma", ; are used.
Look in your settings in MES
as you can see mine is Tab other issues that can arise when importing other peoples data is unit multiplyiers (i some times have to divide by 1000 to get correct values) Another Obvious problem is Language, I have created a spreadsheet of MES descriptions and their translations if required. I think Tab is the default setup. Look at those old files again they may allready have what you want just change your setting to TAB and you should be able to import them.
Screenshot (671).png
Screenshot (672).png
 
When is a CSV file not a CSV file
the files were directly exported from MES when created the problem is not at my end or Janslas but i suspect at your end.
what is a csv? file comma seperated variable NO its an ascii separated variable file. in the beggining the csv was created not knowing it would not work in mainland Europe as ,"comma" is typicaly used for decimal notation and not . "full stop" So for file variable delimitting the options of Tab, space ,"comma", ; are used.
Look in your settings in MES
as you can see mine is Tab other issues that can arise when importing other peoples data is unit multiplyiers (i some times have to divide by 1000 to get correct values) Another Obvious problem is Language, I have created a spreadsheet of MES descriptions and their translations if required. I think Tab is the default setup. Look at those old files again they may allready have what you want just change your setting to TAB and you should be able to import them.
View attachment 467798View attachment 467797
Thanks for the explanation, but the settings at "my end" are the default as supplied - the same as yours, and that is "Tab". I have no problem with jansla's files at all. True, there was an issue originally, but that was because he had modified the structure of the file (he stated that). Before responding originally to you regarding the file issue, I checked the file structure within your uploaded file and it has been modified outside of MES. It has a number (all? from memory) columns inserted in the first column, and that is why MES cannot open it - as I said earlier, the structure has been changed. I have had no issue opening any other files within MES, and yes I have noted the x1000 factor - most recently in a file from Germany - but it opened and displayed correctly.
Here, let me show you by displaying a screen grab of your file opened in Excel - you can see that all the expected individual columns have been compressed into column A. All I have done is downloaded your file and opened it directly - nothing more.

1748176858937.png
 
Does that apply to the Daventry version as well? If so i am really confused as Im certain i didnt muck about with them. it would have a gml extension. Its quite possible that then I was exporting as csv. Since then I have a new laptop so maybe just accepted default. Having a new laptop buggered up a lot of my collection because of windows settings and not realising how much got tinkered with. I will try new template when next out but may be a while.
 
Does that apply to the Daventry version as well? If so i am really confused as Im certain i didnt muck about with them. it would have a gml extension. Its quite possible that then I was exporting as csv. Since then I have a new laptop so maybe just accepted default. Having a new laptop buggered up a lot of my collection because of windows settings and not realising how much got tinkered with. I will try new template when next out but may be a while.
Thank you. I suggest that for your own satisfaction that you check your files yourself, but I think you will find the same issue. I am sure that there will be a number of people who would appreciate a new CSV file with the new template.
 
Is that correct that the injector correction is measured only at idle? I've seen it said that it's measured at 2000rpm? All the "good" engine files I've seen have injectors ranging from 1.5 to 2 max during a full run - not just at a set RPM.
 
Is that correct that the injector correction is measured only at idle? I've seen it said that it's measured at 2000rpm? All the "good" engine files I've seen have injectors ranging from 1.5 to 2 max during a full run - not just at a set RPM.
This is the latest info I recall on this subject in this thread.

Post in thread 'Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next' https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/d...nged-what-do-i-check-next.491167/post-4761045
 
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