Technical DPF or Sensor issue?

[Killykix]

Hello, we drive a DREAMER D55 Exclusive Campervan - FIAT Ducato 2.3

Within 3 weeks, we’ve had the “check engine” sign turning on 3 times in a row, putting our car in limb mode. Those are the newest error codes:

P1206-22; High flow resistance in Diesel Particulate Trap – Signal amplitude > maximum
P20EE-21; Urea NOx catalyst efficiency below threshold – Signal amplitude < minimum
P24A4-68; Soot Load too high and Mileage with Diesel Particulate Filter Lamp ON – Event info

They seem to be all related to each other, and especially to the DPF. Problem is that we already did a forced regeneration which should have solved the issue, but warning came back after 10 days only. We just did another forced regeneration and warning is gone again, but we’re worried it’s gonna come back in a few days only.

Any idea what is the real problem? Does the PDF need to be replaced? (Not very old…) Or is it a false reading and the sensor is the culprit?

Thank you for your help

 

[Anthony489]

Hi

The DPF performance is measured by a differential pressure sensor, which (as you would expect from the name) measures the pressure difference between DPF input and output. The pressure difference will increase as more engine power is demanded and exhaust gas flow increases. A pressure difference higher than a programmed threshold indicates excessive resistance to flow and will trigger warnings.

These sensors are known to fail, and there can also be problems with water condensation in their rubber connecting hoses. As a first step it may be worth disconnecting the pipes and blowing them through, and checking for water in the sensor. Also check the hose condition, especially at the joints.

If replacing, the sensor needs to be programmed/learned to the ECU. In the UK these sensors are not expensive, about £30

I think a sensor fault is more likely than a blocked DPF. If replacing, I would recommend a genuine Bosch unit.

 

[deejays]

Hello, we drive a DREAMER D55 Exclusive Campervan - FIAT Ducato 2.3

Within 3 weeks, we’ve had the “check engine” sign turning on 3 times in a row, putting our car in limb mode. Those are the newest error codes:

P1206-22; High flow resistance in Diesel Particulate Trap – Signal amplitude > maximum
P20EE-21; Urea NOx catalyst efficiency below threshold – Signal amplitude < minimum
P24A4-68; Soot Load too high and Mileage with Diesel Particulate Filter Lamp ON – Event info

They seem to be all related to each other, and especially to the DPF. Problem is that we already did a forced regeneration which should have solved the issue, but warning came back after 10 days only. We just did another forced regeneration and warning is gone again, but we’re worried it’s gonna come back in a few days only.

Any idea what is the real problem? Does the PDF need to be replaced? (Not very old…) Or is it a false reading and the sensor is the culprit?

Thank you for your help

The best thing to do would be view live data to understand what is causing the issue.

 

[Reg 65]

I also have a FIAT Ducato 2.3L Euro 6d manufactured in 2020 which I bought new
The yellow engine management light, sometimes accompanied by limp mode has come on apparently at random since new
Fuel consumption, noise and smoke are all unaffected when this happens
After a bit of a battle (The only Fiat dealer that would touch it is the one I bought it from and they said 'isn't there a Fiat dealer nearer to you' - I replied you didn't ask that when I wanted to buy a new van!! .... Even then I had to wait a fortnight for a half hour job to change the sensor... I got one DPF sensor replaced under warranty which stopped it for about a year. The fitter said its a known issue)

I only have a simple generic code reader.
It either says 'no codes found' or a code relating to the DPF
I set it to erase all codes and it says 'erase codes failed'
Nevertheless, it must have done something because the light goes out and full power is restored until next time which can be anything between a few minutes and about a year.
I don't know, but hope its just a bit of muck on the sensor that gets burnt or blown off?

 

[deejays]

Hi @Reg 65 , I am just wondering if you have not considered MES to try and track down the issue?

 

[Reg 65]

Well I thought about it. But I don't know if I have the security gateway, and am not very tech savvy so don't know how to use it properly. So I have just been erasing the codes and carrying on. It can go thousands of miles and many months before it comes on again. It would be nice to get it sorted though because its a bit of a worry it could break down a long way from home. Especially after the wait and the battle I had just to get the sensor changed - although that was a warranty job I expect it would be easier to find someone to look at it if I was paying cash.

 

[deejays]

Well I thought about it. But I don't know if I have the security gateway, and am not very tech savvy so don't know how to use it properly. So I have just been erasing the codes and carrying on. It can go thousands of miles and many months before it comes on again. It would be nice to get it sorted though because its a bit of a worry it could break down a long way from home. Especially after the wait and the battle I had just to get the sensor changed - although that was a warranty job I expect it would be easier to find someone to look at it if I was paying cash.

One way to find out if it has a gateway is to disconnect one headlight and then turn the ignition on, then off. Then connect your scan tool and scan for faults. You should have a fault reported for the headlight disconnect. See if you can clear it - if you can, then no gateway. Then reconnect headlight to restore vehicle.

 

[Killykix]

Hi

The DPF performance is measured by a differential pressure sensor, which (as you would expect from the name) measures the pressure difference between DPF input and output. The pressure difference will increase as more engine power is demanded and exhaust gas flow increases. A pressure difference higher than a programmed threshold indicates excessive resistance to flow and will trigger warnings.

These sensors are known to fail, and there can also be problems with water condensation in their rubber connecting hoses. As a first step it may be worth disconnecting the pipes and blowing them through, and checking for water in the sensor. Also check the hose condition, especially at the joints.

If replacing, the sensor needs to be programmed/learned to the ECU. In the UK these sensors are not expensive, about £30

I think a sensor fault is more likely than a blocked DPF. If replacing, I would recommend a genuine Bosch unit.

Thank you, that’s helpful. A few questions if you don’t mind:
- How easy is it to disconnect the pipe and blow them through? I’m not an expert at all, I don’t know if I can do it myself
- I understand replacing sensors would potentially solve the issue. Does it have to be done in a specific Fiat retailer? Or any garage will do? I’m asking because I’m traveling across Europe and currently in Romania. Not easy to find official retailers.

We had no problems the first 5 months of travel (from May to October). Problem started end of October, with cold weather and humidity coming, so your explanation might make sense…

 

[Reg 65]

One way to find out if it has a gateway is to disconnect one headlight and then turn the ignition on, then off. Then connect your scan tool and scan for faults. You should have a fault reported for the headlight disconnect. See if you can clear it - if you can, then no gateway. Then reconnect headlight to restore vehicle.

My Ducato 2.3 140hp was built in December 2020

I have just tried the above with my generic code reader from Aldi and it read 'no codes'

So I tried the free Google Car Scanner app, connected via a 'Streetwize' wireless dongle from Euro Car Parts
Unfortunately it doesn't list my 2.3 Ducato, only the 2.0, 2.2, and 3.0. So I set it to the 2.2
It showed fault codes B12C1 15, B11AF 15, and B11AO 15 which a google search indicates are the lights in the front light unit I disconnected (they are all fed by the same plug) Then it successfully cleared them

There is something else which suggests it doesn't have the SGW It says it will detect all the modules in its list which includes SGW. So I ticked all the modules on the list and it unticked all the modules it could not find including the SGW.

Incidentally the free Google Car Scanner app also gives a lot of live information on the engine running - rpm, adblu & fuel levels, temperature of coolant, engine oil, inlet air and a lot more

 

[Ninja21]

Ive just connected to my Van with a carista obd and using Alfaobd demo version and it connected fine and did show Secure Gateway Module in the list?
when i tried to connect to the BCM the app asked for :- Enter Code Card 5 digits? Underneath there is an option to login with code card.
Anyone can advise on this.

Thanks Dave

 

[Fat Albert]

Do you think that means that an integrated SGW was fitted as early as 2020

 

[Ninja21]

Do you think that means that an integrated SGW was fitted as early as 2020

Im not sure or convinced just yet, but I doubt it, im gonna try what Reg has suggested with the headlight tomorrow.

 

[Ninja21]

Well I thought about it. But I don't know if I have the security gateway, and am not very tech savvy so don't know how to use it properly. So I have just been erasing the codes and carrying on. It can go thousands of miles and many months before it comes on again. It would be nice to get it sorted though because its a bit of a worry it could break down a long way from home. Especially after the wait and the battle I had just to get the sensor changed - although that was a warranty job I expect it would be easier to find someone to look at it if I was paying cash.

If you have been erasing the codes then doesnt that kind of suggest you dont have the SGW because if you did you wouldnt be able to erase the fault codes.

 

[deejays]

My Ducato 2.3 140hp was built in December 2020

I have just tried the above with my generic code reader from Aldi and it read 'no codes'

So I tried the free Google Car Scanner app, connected via a 'Streetwize' wireless dongle from Euro Car Parts
Unfortunately it doesn't list my 2.3 Ducato, only the 2.0, 2.2, and 3.0. So I set it to the 2.2
It showed fault codes B12C1 15, B11AF 15, and B11AO 15 which a google search indicates are the lights in the front light unit I disconnected (they are all fed by the same plug) Then it successfully cleared them

There is something else which suggests it doesn't have the SGW It says it will detect all the modules in its list which includes SGW. So I ticked all the modules on the list and it unticked all the modules it could not find including the SGW.

Incidentally the free Google Car Scanner app also gives a lot of live information on the engine running - rpm, adblu & fuel levels, temperature of coolant, engine oil, inlet air and a lot more

OK Reg, sounds like good news. It also shows that cheap fault code readers are likely a waste of money and time. If you want to try another free app, then you could look at the free version of AfaOBD, which is quite good. But if you want the best of the best, then MES is it.

 

[deejays]

Ive just connected to my Van with a carista obd and using Alfaobd demo version and it connected fine and did show Secure Gateway Module in the list?
when i tried to connect to the BCM the app asked for :- Enter Code Card 5 digits? Underneath there is an option to login with code card.
Anyone can advise on this.

Thanks Dave

Do not worry about that - it is a function of AlfaOBD not anything to do with a SGW. AlfaOBD operates the same on my 2018 2.3l dual EGR which has no SGW. There is no need to input the code. The code it refers to is on the id card that came with my vehicle at purchase. I understand that FIAT no longer supply that code card, but can be obtained from FIAT PRO by specifying the VIN. It is the key code for the ignition key.

 

[Ninja21]

Do not worry about that - it is a function of AlfaOBD not anything to do with a SGW. AlfaOBD operates the same on my 2018 2.3l dual EGR which has no SGW. There is no need to input the code. The code it refers to is on the id card that came with my vehicle at purchase. I understand that FIAT no longer supply that code card, but can be obtained from FIAT PRO by specifying the VIN. It is the key code for the ignition key.

Thanks Deejays, I tried with the Demo version but i have just gone and bought the pro version on Playstore so will have another go tomorrow, im also looking at buying MES but Mike couldnt confirm if i can program the LED lights with MES but if I can that is the route im going down. I have also contacted mes support asking the question but they have not vome back to me as yet.

Also How do you go about requesting the code from Fiat Pro, i dont see anything on the website, do you need to contact them directly?

Dave

 

[deejays]

Thanks Deejays, I tried with the Demo version but i have just gone and bought the pro version on Playstore so will have another go tomorrow, im also looking at buying MES but Mike couldnt confirm if i can program the LED lights with MES but if I can that is the route im going down. I have also contacted mes support asking the question but they have not vome back to me as yet.

Also How do you go about requesting the code from Fiat Pro, i dont see anything on the website, do you need to contact them directly?

Dave

You will need to present yourself and the vehicle to a FIAT PRO shop.

 

[PL 8]

My Ducato 2.3 140hp was built in December 2020

I have just tried the above with my generic code reader from Aldi and it read 'no codes'

So I tried the free Google Car Scanner app, connected via a 'Streetwize' wireless dongle from Euro Car Parts
Unfortunately it doesn't list my 2.3 Ducato, only the 2.0, 2.2, and 3.0. So I set it to the 2.2
It showed fault codes B12C1 15, B11AF 15, and B11AO 15 which a google search indicates are the lights in the front light unit I disconnected (they are all fed by the same plug) Then it successfully cleared them

There is something else which suggests it doesn't have the SGW It says it will detect all the modules in its list which includes SGW. So I ticked all the modules on the list and it unticked all the modules it could not find including the SGW.

Incidentally the free Google Car Scanner app also gives a lot of live information on the engine running - rpm, adblu & fuel levels, temperature of coolant, engine oil, inlet air and a lot more

As I wrote in the thread https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/s...cation-ducato-2020.500898/page-3#post-4840132 I managed, with help of a MES-user, to make a proxy alignement (is this the correct expression?) on my Ducato 2.3 l 140hp built in October 2020. This was made without any adapter for SGW. I think this also indicates that my Ducato doesn´t have SGW.

 

[Ninja21]

Mine is also Oct 2020 so that hopefully means mine doesnt have it fit either.

 

[Reg 65]

OK Reg, sounds like good news. It also shows that cheap fault code readers are likely a waste of money and time. If you want to try another free app, then you could look at the free version of AfaOBD, which is quite good.

Sounds good. Do you have to have cables, or can you connect via a wireless OBDII Code reader

like I can with google free car scanner app

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