Technical DPF not regening on its own

[JamesDM]

Hi,

My DPF had to be force regenerated on Sunday as it was showing the DPF warning light it competed fine and was showing it at 70%

Today at around 8:30pm it came back on the filter was at 102%, so I did a force regen brought it back down

At idle the differential pressure sensor is showing 8mbar just for extra info so can’t be blocked

Why is the DPF not doing regens itself? I drive mostly on the motorways there are no engine warning lights or codes on the body.

I’ve done at least 3 DPF regens in the life of this van someone told me you can only do 3 forced regens before it stops attempting it’s own, is this true?

How can I resolve this

 

[JamesDM]

@bugsymike have you any idea?

 

[The Panda Nut]

I never once in 106000 miles noticed my Bravo 1.6D regenerate. If you drive a few miles on a ,otorway etc at speed I think it does this all by itself. What are you expecting to see or hear. Running a forced regen changed the numbers but that all. My handbook said the light would show if it was actually regenerating. I never saw it.

I think the three forced regen tale is a myth. It will do it when the ECU gets the relevant signals.

I asked the dealer why it didnt regen and they checked it. It had done some 800 regens. They gave me a printout. MES didnt see these. I hope something here may add to your thinking.

 

[bugsymike]

Has the vehicle done a high mileage, not had regular oil changes etc. are the injectors worn/ running on the rich side?
I bought a C3 1.6 Picasso with over 200K miles on it a few years ago, it was not revving up and chucking out horrible foul smelling whitish/grey fumes, it was trying to do regens. I removed the DPF and cleaned it using commercial bleach and oven cleaner , then steam cleaned it thoroughly, used a Snap On diagnostic tool to tell the ECU the DPF had been replaced, it ran happily and passed Mots for around three years, mostly local driving but not hanging about, more recently I renewed the Eloys Fluid as low and told the ECU, but eventually I had to replace the DPF, it has now done around 223k miles.
Although it then flew through emissions test and runs cleanly, I did notice when DPF off a fair amount of soot pre DPF, so I suspect whilst DPF is doing it's job the vehicle is starting to feel it's age.
As Panda Nut above, I suspect forced Regens are not a miracle cure.
Basically modern diesel emission designed cars are not happy as town vehicles which is where most drivers use them. Whilst they may get away with it for the first 80/100K miles with regular correct low ash oil changes etc.
Most modern diesel vehicles are happy, fully warmed up driving up and down Motorways at the legal limit along with regular servicing, however when sold to customers the salesmen rarely advise the buyers as to best use, they are too busy telling them the vehicle will do 70mpg etc. along with large service intervals, non of which is accurate for regular town use.
Old London taxis could regularly clock up half a million miles in their lives driving around in stop /go conditions, unfortunately at the same time they were chucking out all the soot etc. which in modern vehicles is captured until it blocks up every thing.
You could argue that the modern diesel when it does it's "Regen" spews out all that soot on the Dual carriageway, but maybe that is me being cynical.

 

[JamesDM]

Has the vehicle done a high mileage, not had regular oil changes etc. are the injectors worn/ running on the rich side?
I bought a C3 1.6 Picasso with over 200K miles on it a few years ago, it was not revving up and chucking out horrible foul smelling whitish/grey fumes, it was trying to do regens. I removed the DPF and cleaned it using commercial bleach and oven cleaner , then steam cleaned it thoroughly, used a Snap On diagnostic tool to tell the ECU the DPF had been replaced, it ran happily and passed Mots for around three years, mostly local driving but not hanging about, more recently I renewed the Eloys Fluid as low and told the ECU, but eventually I had to replace the DPF, it has now done around 223k miles.
Although it then flew through emissions test and runs cleanly, I did notice when DPF off a fair amount of soot pre DPF, so I suspect whilst DPF is doing it's job the vehicle is starting to feel it's age.
As Panda Nut above, I suspect forced Regens are not a miracle cure.
Basically modern diesel emission designed cars are not happy as town vehicles which is where most drivers use them. Whilst they may get away with it for the first 80/100K miles with regular correct low ash oil changes etc.
Most modern diesel vehicles are happy, fully warmed up driving up and down Motorways at the legal limit along with regular servicing, however when sold to customers the salesmen rarely advise the buyers as to best use, they are too busy telling them the vehicle will do 70mpg etc. along with large service intervals, non of which is accurate for regular town use.
Old London taxis could regularly clock up half a million miles in their lives driving around in stop /go conditions, unfortunately at the same time they were chucking out all the soot etc. which in modern vehicles is captured until it blocks up every thing.
You could argue that the modern diesel when it does it's "Regen" spews out all that soot on the Dual carriageway, but maybe that is me being cynical.

It's at 98,000 miles not sure you recall my other cries for help, but the bottom end of the engine was worn, so I ended up having a new block etc. the engine runs very well now; I've just done an oil change and reset the oil degradation value it's at 96%.

Regarding the injectors, I'm unsure what's the best way to test them.

I also tried telling the ECU the DPF had been replaced but it didn't like it for some reason MES says the engine needs to be running but other tools say it doesn't so I'll have to see if I can get someone to try using Snap-On Diagnostics.

 

[bugsymike]

It's at 98,000 miles not sure you recall my other cries for help, but the bottom end of the engine was worn, so I ended up having a new block etc. the engine runs very well now; I've just done an oil change and reset the oil degradation value it's at 96%.

Regarding the injectors, I'm unsure what's the best way to test them.

I also tried telling the ECU the DPF had been replaced but it didn't like it for some reason MES says the engine needs to be running but other tools say it doesn't so I'll have to see if I can get someone to try using Snap-On Diagnostics.

If it's running sweet with no black smoke at any time, I would hold off on the injector side.
As I mentioned for the Citroen C3 Picasso 1.6 Diesel I used a friends Snap On Zeus which was very good, I assume it would be the same for a Fiat.
Purely out of interest and re weight of cinder etc. Since just fitting the new DPF, I took these pictures this morning on the Citroen, just started up using a Launch Creader 7+ I had handy, it can't do regens or a lot of other things but the price was right at the time. Sorry about pic quality.

 

[JamesDM]

If it's running sweet with no black smoke at any time, I would hold off on the injector side.
As I mentioned for the Citroen C3 Picasso 1.6 Diesel I used a friends Snap On Zeus which was very good, I assume it would be the same for a Fiat.
Purely out of interest and re weight of cinder etc. Since just fitting the new DPF, I took these pictures this morning on the Citroen, just started up using a Launch Creader 7+ I had handy, it can't do regens or a lot of other things but the price was right at the time. Sorry about pic quality.

Thanks Mike; no black smoke at any time and runs fine so will leave the injectors for now.

I'll need to get back to you on the weight of the cinder, does Fiat Doblos support this parameter if so I'll ask a friend to plug in a better tool than I have.

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks Mike; no black smoke at any time and runs fine so will leave the injectors for now.

I'll need to get back to you on the weight of the cinder, does Fiat Doblos support this parameter if so I'll ask a friend to plug in a better tool than I have.

I have a 2010 1.6 Doblo Maxi van , but I have not checked that function on friends Snap On tool. Mike

 

[JamesDM]

I have a 2010 1.6 Doblo Maxi van , but I have not checked that function on friends Snap On tool. Mike

I was in first moving a bit when this photo was taken

 

[The Panda Nut]

Has the vehicle done a high mileage, not had regular oil changes etc. are the injectors worn/ running on the rich side?
I bought a C3 1.6 Picasso with over 200K miles on it a few years ago, it was not revving up and chucking out horrible foul smelling whitish/grey fumes, it was trying to do regens. I removed the DPF and cleaned it using commercial bleach and oven cleaner , then steam cleaned it thoroughly, used a Snap On diagnostic tool to tell the ECU the DPF had been replaced, it ran happily and passed Mots for around three years, mostly local driving but not hanging about, more recently I renewed the Eloys Fluid as low and told the ECU, but eventually I had to replace the DPF, it has now done around 223k miles.
Although it then flew through emissions test and runs cleanly, I did notice when DPF off a fair amount of soot pre DPF, so I suspect whilst DPF is doing it's job the vehicle is starting to feel it's age.
As Panda Nut above, I suspect forced Regens are not a miracle cure.
Basically modern diesel emission designed cars are not happy as town vehicles which is where most drivers use them. Whilst they may get away with it for the first 80/100K miles with regular correct low ash oil changes etc.
Most modern diesel vehicles are happy, fully warmed up driving up and down Motorways at the legal limit along with regular servicing, however when sold to customers the salesmen rarely advise the buyers as to best use, they are too busy telling them the vehicle will do 70mpg etc. along with large service intervals, non of which is accurate for regular town use.
Old London taxis could regularly clock up half a million miles in their lives driving around in stop /go conditions, unfortunately at the same time they were chucking out all the soot etc. which in modern vehicles is captured until it blocks up every thing.
You could argue that the modern diesel when it does it's "Regen" spews out all that soot on the Dual carriageway, but maybe that is me being cynical.

When the Bravo was forced exhaust gas temperature was c 850C!!! I think it was burning its soot. It REALLY smelled very very hot.

 

[bugsymike]

I was in first moving a bit when this photo was taken

Readings seem a bit odd regen temp 0 degrees , distance since replacement and regen etc. plus 72% clogged and yet states replaced. I assume it was a good quality new DPF filter fitted.
When I replaced mine I had to tell the diagnostic tool it had been replaced then delete any error codes before starting up etc. There was a sequence with ignition off then on and so on , but I had read about it on uTube before actually using the tool and as you can see on my pics it shows zero cinder count etc.
Maybe someone familiar with MES can advise you better, my OS is not compatible with MES and I don't use Mobiles.

 

[JamesDM]

Readings seem a bit odd regen temp 0 degrees , distance since replacement and regen etc. plus 72% clogged and yet states replaced. I assume it was a good quality new DPF filter fitted.
When I replaced mine I had to tell the diagnostic tool it had been replaced then delete any error codes before starting up etc. There was a sequence with ignition off then on and so on , but I had read about it on uTube before actually using the tool and as you can see on my pics it shows zero cinder count etc.
Maybe someone familiar with MES can advise you better, my OS is not compatible with MES and I don't use Mobiles.

That was me, I told the van it had a new DPF I did a forced regen (the van is moving here in this screenshot) still at 70ish% now and no sign of it doing a regen on its own I took it on an 80-mile drive down the motorway.

I'm stumped as to why it won't regen itself

 

[bugsymike]

That was me, I told the van it had a new DPF I did a forced regen (the van is moving here in this screenshot) still at 70ish% now and no sign of it doing a regen on its own I took it on an 80-mile drive down the motorway.

I'm stumped as to why it won't regen itself

Temp difference seems strange to me, though I am not familiar with MES, it says temp 268 at particulate filter and 652 average at last regen, does this mean it isn't getting hot enough to regen?
I notice the Panda Nut mentions a temp of 850C on a Bravo.
My other question is why would it even need a regen if new DPF just fitted?
I know the figures I gave earlier for a car with a new DPF just fitted were a different make of vehicle and using a different tool (Snap On) but there doesn't seem to be any correlation in the figures at all.
I don't know if possible on your vehicle , but on the Citroen after taking the old DPF off I was able to start the car and notice it revved much more freely than even with the new DPF, I did this just to see what happened and when reconnected to the Diagnostic Tool it had registered that the DPF wasn't there in one of the error codes, I deleted all those error codes then ran the "new DPF" installation process with the Snap On Tool as per it's instructions , followed by the final error code delete and job was done.

 

[Poperon]

Hi,
Not sure if this helps, when my Doblo 1.9 2006 does its regen (on its own) it starts at 105% and when completed it drops it down to about 20%.

Cheers
Ron

 

[JamesDM]

Temp difference seems strange to me, though I am not familiar with MES, it says temp 268 at particulate filter and 652 average at last regen, does this mean it isn't getting hot enough to regen?
I notice the Panda Nut mentions a temp of 850C on a Bravo.
My other question is why would it even need a regen if new DPF just fitted?
I know the figures I gave earlier for a car with a new DPF just fitted were a different make of vehicle and using a different tool (Snap On) but there doesn't seem to be any correlation in the figures at all.
I don't know if possible on your vehicle , but on the Citroen after taking the old DPF off I was able to start the car and notice it revved much more freely than even with the new DPF, I did this just to see what happened and when reconnected to the Diagnostic Tool it had registered that the DPF wasn't there in one of the error codes, I deleted all those error codes then ran the "new DPF" installation process with the Snap On Tool as per it's instructions , followed by the final error code delete and job was done.

I spoke to the guy who sorted my engine out, and he said to tell it it's had a new DPF so the temp being at 268 was when the vehicle was driving so it wasn't stationary.

The 650ish degrees seem about right for a regen, the issue is it isn't telling the DPF to regen, Poperon said his regens at 105% so I will have to take it for a drive to get it up.

Hi,
Not sure if this helps, when my Doblo 1.9 2006 does its regen (on its own) it starts at 105% and when completed it drops it down to about 20%.

Cheers
Ron

Thanks Ron, I'll take a spin in the van today and get it to 105%+ and see if it does a regen or if the status at least changes to 'To be regenerated'

 

[Poperon]

Hi,

The other thing I found was that it takes 60 to 70 miles to increase the clogging by 10%.

Cheers

Ron

 

[JamesDM]

Hi,

The other thing I found was that it takes 60 to 70 miles to increase the clogging by 10%.

Cheers

Ron

Issue seems sorted after telling the van it had a new DPF and taking it on a drive it got to 95.5% and then the van decided to do a regen.

So now it's all working as expected, strange why before it wasn't as it wasn't regening on it's own and going past 95.5% but all is fine now!

Thanks for your help Ron and @bugsymike!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Readings seem a bit odd regen temp 0 degrees , distance since replacement and regen etc. plus 72% clogged and yet states replaced. I assume it was a good quality new DPF filter fitted.
When I replaced mine I had to tell the diagnostic tool it had been replaced then delete any error codes before starting up etc. There was a sequence with ignition off then on and so on , but I had read about it on uTube before actually using the tool and as you can see on my pics it shows zero cinder count etc.
Maybe someone familiar with MES can advise you better, my OS is not compatible with MES and I don't use Mobiles.

Just for a bit more info. The Bravo seemed to be normal at 70%. I used to plug in regularly and this was almost a constant. I used to wonder why is appeared to be saying 70% blocked. I suspect its not a blockage percentage but a measurable facot expressed as a %. It was never lower but ran pefectly. I sold it at 108000 and felt the enginer really was running better than ever in its entire life,
Re injectors, I think you are wise to leave alone if you have no smoke. You will get indications an injector is not right if there is a major issue and can then get them serviced or replaced. Rough idle, difficult starting and smoke would be the order of the day. If the car has been used normally and serviced I would be suprised if they need changing yet based on my experiences with diesels. In all the time I dorb=ve diesel the only injector problems were the result of revious DIY owners efforts.
I think doing the spped and distance with the engine running is yoour best way to clear any deposits in teh DPF but it tkaes a bit if nerve and determination to do 10 miles at 4500 in third... May be best done just before an oil change too. I think the volumes of air being drawn through the system while the engine is under load exceed a standing load free regen and also help dry out and clear the whole exhaust. This again is opinion and a bit of logic thrown in I hope.
I will have a pole around in MES and see if I can see anything that looks interesting / useful
The Bravo handbook (1.6D 105) said the dpf light woud come on as and when the regen was required / underway. Is the car still running OK when the light is on? Have you taken it out and given it a damned good thrashing to see if this extinguishes it. The trouble with these regens is they require 4500 revs and in 4th or 5th this would equate to 100mph+ let alone top gear.

 

[varesecrazy]

Being the last post was March,
I am guessing a conclusion has been reached.?
@JamesDM

 

[The Panda Nut]

OK Im good at talking to myself. 1st sign of madness. I shall as trhey say leeve it aawt.
Just one last append for future reference from MES. I was suprised to see it state 200% may still not be blocked! I think my suggestion that this %age clogging being some idea / factor expressed as % may be correct.