DPF Issues

[T14086]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

Hi,

I bought a new Ducato Motorhome last August, £40k, it has now done 5500 miles. I was recovered home last Monday night. I own two garages employ 8 mechanics and also own a kitcar business. I use the Motorhome for trackdays and Kitcar shows. No suprise code P2002 DPF filter blocked. I only use Shell or BP fuel, it always tows my trailer with a car in it. Minimum journey is 50 miles to the nearest track. I always drive as fast as I am legally allowed to. I am waiting for an engineers report from Fiat and want to see any parts replaced and will need to know why. My garages have removed DPF systems from customers cars to resolve major problems. I am a trained diesel engineer, and will not be fobbed off with lame excuses or poor repairs. I am due to take it to Scotland later next week so it needs repairing/modifying correctly. If it lets me down again, legal action will follow. My Landcruiser is 13 years old, done 155000 miles and never let me down once.

__________________

My point is don't buy a Fiat Ducato it is obviouly not fit for it's purpose. 2668Griffin
It is under warranty, I expect Fiat to fix it. Most Easterly Pandas
Still waiting after 3 days for Fiat Technical to tell me what is wrong with it, how they intend to fix it and why it went wrong. I was told by the 'repairing dealer' that a lambda sensor was faulty until I pointed out they are only fitted to petrol engines.

Here we go again a personal attack on me, we have scanners that will read the EOBD codes, however the vehicle does 5mph. So it was recovered to the Iveco/Fiat dealer as it is only 8 months old/5500 miles and under the manufacturers warranty. This was arranged between Fiat and the RAC.
A point worth making is the engine went into limp mode while driving at 60mph with the cruise control on towing a Brian James Shuttle trailer with a car in it.
In heavy traffic on the M1 that was an unpleasent experience, luckily the vehicles near me reacted quickly otherwise an accident could have occurred. The dealer read the codes on Tuesday afternoon and informed Fiat UK technical. I spoke with Fiat at 5.00pm tonight and was passed to yet another person who would look into it for me, four people there I have spoken to so far. Yet no nearer to getting my vehicle back or an update on how they intend to fix it, I was due at a track event this weekend and was going to Scotland next week. Everything is booked and paid for at both events.

mikeal200, this is an old thread, it's forum 'etiquette' not to hijack other peoples threads.....please start your own.

Anyway your posts confuse me, as a multiple garage owner you must be aware of problems that can occur is diagnosing faults and the length of time they can take. I also 'assume' you garages are not franchises as you would be aware of a set procedure to follow under warranty. Gone are the days of throwing parts at the vehicle, diagnosis has to be accurate and technical support is encouraged.

Please remember this is a Fiat owners site, if you are here to vent your anger then maybe somewhere like 'honestjohns website' would be better. Motorhome owners often get priority with help and I am sure all is being done to get you back on the road.

Personally I find Fiat's dpf system not too bad and certainly well ahead of many other manufacturers who are having no end of problems.

 

[mikeal200]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

Not my intention to high jack this.

I am surprised by the lack of customer support from Fiat (not the dealer) we often have vehicles in longer than intended, but at least we try and keep the customer up to date with the situation. Not sure why Fiat customer services cannot let me or the dealer know what is going on regarding the repair. They told me today the dealers Master Technician was on holiday !!! The dealer has shifts and is open 24 hours a day !

 

[2668GRIFFIN]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

We are not getting anywhere fast with this thread, and leave mikeal200 to it, with his attitude and manner in handling this issue will not get his motor home fixed any quicker, i'm just glad i haven't got to deal with him as a customer.
Luigi
ps. so you never go on holiday now?

 

[s130]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

Ignoring all the posts/discussion about "approach" etc.....

I would like to tender a *possible* cause for why some vehicles, even those driven on long distances may be have DPF issues more than others.

I'll use mikeal200's case as an example.

1) any diesel engine that is loaded, especially at lower rpms is a very high soot producer
2) small diesel engines are easier to overload and drive into soot mode
3) A camper van is as aero dynamic as a brick and also heavy so a 1.9l 130BHP diesel engine could? be marginal. A 2.2 or large engine is more commonly used.
4) vehicle is also used to tow another car on a trailer - even more load

Now the gross train weight in this case may be within Fiats homologated criteria but I've seen campers struggle on hills or against strong winds.

So what I'm speculating is that 1.9l 130BHP unit in a car whilst in most cases is OK the use in the camber scenario could be a little taxing for the DPF system UNLESS the DPF / exhaust system has been specifically reengineered to cater with much higher and more continuous soot production???

Now only Fiat Technical will know for sure what if any design changes were made to the DPF system on any given vehicle and application so this is why it is import to thoroughly follow the manufacturer's technical support chain of command from dealer to Fiat UK and beyond.

Final point I'd make it that all design is a exercise of compromise, reiteration and cost. No design (for the pricess we are prepared to pay anyway) is bullet proof and there will always be a few cases where one user's 'normal' operation is actually on or over the limit a given design can handle.

Lets hope our friends problem is discovered and solved.

I had a similar problem type of scenario with my Stilo Abarth. I could get the engine to just start detonating at high RPM under load. e.g. when towing my caravan in the UK or sometimes normal power driving in high ambient temperatures.

Fiat technical took this on and eventually confirmed it was a design criteria related to Euro emissions control.

Anyone who knows their onions that when detonation occurs there are 3 basic ways to cure it, and one not normally used way in normal road cars

1) retard ignition
2) increase mixture
3) colder running plugs
4) water injection.

While I was waiting for Fiat technical to come back I fitted/tried two sets of colder running plugs to no avail. Both knock sensors were working and the ignition was being retarded, but no enough.

Final response from Fiat was that the map was as good as they could get it without exceeding Euro emissions. Retarding ignition and increasing fuel BOTH increase the emissions.

Only solution available for me was to have the ECU independently remapped which I chose not to do as the car was under warranty and I didn't want any insurance issues.


It could be that in Mike's case/usage he is generating soot at a faster rate than a DPF regen cycle can keep up with.

 

[dombooth]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

The dealer has shifts and is open 24 hours a day !

24 hours a day? Care to share who this is?

Dom

 

[fingers99]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

A

nyone who knows their onions that when detonation occurs there are 3 basic ways to cure it, and one not normally used way in normal road cars

1) retard ignition
2) increase mixture
3) colder running plugs
4) water injection.

There is a 5th way -- run on higher octane fuel or use an octane booster.

3) will deter pre-ignition, which isn't quite the same as det.

 

[mikeal200]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

North Eastern Trucks Hull. Iveco and Fiat Commercial main dealer.

Rang me at 5.00pm tonight to say Fiat have authorized a new DPF (£1629 plus VAT). I think they have spent most of the day trying a regeneration. Bad news is they now say it has to come from Italy, This weekend arrangements now scrapped, just hoping it is sorted for Scotland on Thursday next week.

 

[dombooth]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

North Eastern Trucks Hull. Iveco and Fiat Commercial main dealer.

Rang me at 5.00pm tonight to say Fiat have authorized a new DPF (£1629 plus VAT). I think they have spent most of the day trying a regeneration. Bad news is they now say it has to come from Italy, This weekend arrangements now scrapped, just hoping it is sorted for Scotland on Thursday next week.

Not 24 hours then......

http://www.northeasttruckandvan.com/downloads/onestop/OneStopShop.pdf

Dom

 

[mikeal200]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

The engine is a 2.3 130bhp unit. It cruises nicely at 2500rpm in sixth gear (cruise control usually on) This is 60 mph almost no difference when towing the trailer, I think due to the fact the trailer sits in the low pressure zone behind the motorhome. Fuel consumption normally 24/22 mpg or 22/20 towing the trailer. The last journey it was 18/16 so (with hindsight a bit of a warning) I think the oil level is higher as well, not by much but another clue I suppose that regeneration by the ECU was being tried. I asked Fiat if there was any ECU firmware upgrades after some time checking he confirmed there is. On Wednesday I asked parts if they stock the DPF and how much it cost. He said not in stock but same day as some in the U.K. That contradicts what I was told tonight. It may be a newer/different make/updated one will be fitted. It could go over the Ouse Bridge M62 in sixth gear only losing 300 rpm, due to the boost increasing under load from the turbo. It would appear driving above 2000 rpm and over 40 mph is recommended for keeping the DPF clear !!

 

[ban1111]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

That ****ty news and not just the ruining of your weekend plans either a new DPF! not even a sensor problem. i would be asking are they going to be cleaning the inlet and egr valve out for you? after all if the dpf has ****ed up due to soot,then what will the internals
of those bits be like and oil change too.I know you know this stuff but tell them you will be
taking an oil analysis if this isn't all done.
goood luck.

 

[mikeal200]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

I assume the night shift is for the large commercials, or work load.

 

[mikeal200]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

I will expect them to change the oil, they have said they will give me a full report on what is being done including the firmware/software upgrade. I left a note in the vehicle that all parts removed/replaced are made available for inspection. We keep parts we remove for minimum 24 hours after customer collection. I often find people like to see parts (especially if they have paid a lot of money for new parts) even non technical people at least can have some idea what the parts look like and the reason it has failed.

 

[dombooth]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

I will expect them to change the oil, they have said they will give me a full report on what is being done including the firmware/software upgrade. I left a note in the vehicle that all parts removed/replaced are made available for inspection. We keep parts we remove for minimum 24 hours after customer collection. I often find people like to see parts (especially if they have paid a lot of money for new parts) even non technical people at least can have some idea what the parts look like and the reason it has failed.

Why should they change the oil? :s What's it got to do the oil?

Dom

 

[mikeal200]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

Regeneration can cause the oil level to rise, the oil is then compromised by being diluted, I would expect to be charged for it, as it is a consumable item.

 

[ban1111]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

oil contamination is the result of the failure of a warranted part it is therefore a consequence and you should not be asked to pay for even the oil.of course if a oil service
is due in the very near future then that might make a difference.

 

[s130]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

The engine is a 2.3 130bhp unit.

Ooops

I had forgotten that the older 2.3 units develop lower bhp to the later more current 1.9 units.

It will be very interesting to see how things progress after the new DPF etc. are fitted.

Please keep us posted.

Nick /////

 

[mikeal200]

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

I agree with you, but as long as they don't try charging me silly money for the oil. I will not object to paying for it. My only hope is it is ready for my trip to Scotland followed by a trouble free trip there and back. I am doing a 300 mile round trip later today, it would have been a perfect test for it had it been ready. My plans for the weekend have had to change at great cost to me, just hoping next weeks arrangements are not scrapped as well.

 

[Chris muff diver]

On my fiat 500 multijet 1.3 diesel 08 My dpf filter keeps clogging up I used dpf cleaner a few times I have drove the car at 3000. Rpm till light goes out but a few days later it will start to block up again.i drive around 300 miles a week also I know people are having problems with fiats dpf so is there any better after market filters I can buy that are not made by fiat I seen one on eBay but am unsure if I should buy it plz can some one help

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

On my fiat 500 multijet 1.3 diesel 08 My dpf filter keeps clogging up I used dpf cleaner a few times I have drove the car at 3000. Rpm till light goes out but a few days later it will start to block up again.i drive around 300 miles a week also I know people are having problems with fiats dpf so is there any better after market filters I can buy that are not made by fiat I seen one on eBay but am unsure if I should buy it plz can some one help

Shouldn't be clogging up with that sort of mileage. Sounds like there is some sort of a fault. Have you had the sensors checked?

 

[Chris muff diver]

No sure fiat did a filter regen a couple of months ago so you would think they did that