Domestic electrical question.

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Domestic electrical question.

If you have replaced the starter it's probably the ballast but faulty tubes can also do this. But there's no point replacing the parts. Pull down the fitting and replace it with LED.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2ft-3ft-...958323?hash=item440f35c573:g:YlgAAOSwFERgGUye
That was my first instinct but it's the type which doesn't have one of those wee cylindrical replaceable starter cartridges.

I'm just going to let it run until it "dies".

I know nothing about these new fangled LED ones but the ones shown to me by my local electrical factor were pretty expensive. This one you've linked to is much cheaper. Also, if they fail, is it simply a matter of renewing the "tube" or do you throw away the whole fitting and renew the lot? At this time I have two, twin tube, 5ft units. If I go with the LED jobbies do I just go for the same - ie. 5ft twin "tube" units - I like the workshop to be "bright". Also do they give out comparable light or are they dimmer or brighter than my existing "Daylight" 5ft tubes? (trying to decide if a single tube fitment would be adequate?

Thanks to anyone who can shed any "light" (ho! ho!) on this.
 
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https://home.howstuffworks.com/question337.htm

The above is Not totally clear but the filaments at each end of the tube are turned on by the starter to heat up, after a short time the starter turns off heating and switchs the voltage to either end of tube , if the stuff in the tube is warm enough then current will flow in the tube producing light.

The filaments are like diesel glow plugs if doesn't get warm enough it won't start.

Pugglt Auld Jock
Jock -the filaments in your tube probably on their last legs , warmer ambient temperature probably why working now.

Led tubes use Leds to produce ultraviolet light to excite the phosphor coating inside tube and give off light.

A "double" led tube can be encased in a single tube. I have 3 singles and they are very bright.

Cheers Jack
 
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The old fluorescent tubes emit UV light. The white boron coating inside the tube fluoresces in visible light. They also emit light all around so some gets wasted lighting the fitting and ceiling.

The LEDs are strings of LED cells on a flat strip with a diffuser over the top. They give more light per unit length and they direct all of the light down from the fitting.

Search "review LED fluorescent" and you'll be absorbed for hours.
 
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Update to my lighting problems.

I was gardening this morning but was frustrated by the rain coming on so decided to do a little bit of sorting out in my garage. I have shelves high up near the ceiling where I keep stuff I don't use so often and as I haven't been up there for quite some time I made a start there. This means climbing up a few rungs of my step ladder and as I got up higher I realized one of the tubes on the light fitting is black at one end for a distance of maybe 2 inches in from the end.

The strange thing is that the end of the tube looks Ok from below, it's only when you get up level with it that you can see the top is black. I got a long garden cane so I can operate the switch whilst up the ladder and switched it on. Well, the end of the tube glowed an angry red for an instant, went out and then glowed red again and fired up. I let it run for a few minutes and then switched it off and tried again but it wouldn't light off - just gave me the red glow twice and then went dead. It's twin tube (this is a twin tube 5ft fitting) flashed and lit up when the "blackened" tube lit up, but subsequently only flashed in syncro with it's "sick" pal and failed to light off when the "duff" tube failed to light.

So what we have is two tubes which flash in synchro with each other when switched on. Sometimes they go on to stay alight and sometimes both stay "dead" after 2 flashes.

Whilst I was up there near the ceiling I came across a spare tube I had forgotten I had (there is another twin tube batten at the door end of the garage and a single 5ft batten in the kitchen) I must have bought a spare at some time and forgotten it was up there. Anyway, I thought the blackened tube didn't look "right" so I took it out and fitted the new tube. Now when you switch the light on both tubes flash once and then light up - which is what they always used to do - I must have switched it on and off at least a half dozen times this evening and it's worked perfectly every time.

I guess the blackened end and excessive red glow on the "duff" tube is therefore an indication that a tube is at the end of it's life and I'll look out for this on the other ones (in fact I can see this blackening - to a much lesser extent - on the other tubes now I'm looking for it) I have two questions I don't know the answer too:-
1) Given that the blackened tube is worn out? I can understand why it stopped lighting up but why did the other tube in this twin tube batten also stop lighting? By the way that other tube looks in good order with only a very slight blackening visible.
2) Because it's been "misfiring" for a few months now - sometimes lighting sometimes not, but even when not lit I would just leave the switch on and use the light cast over from the other batten near the door - will I have caused damage to this unit's electronics?

So, with a bit of luck and good fortune all it needed was a new tube - happy days, fingers crossed.
 
Blackened tube ends = worn out. Fitting should be ok just remove the faulty tubes. If it fails to start, try a starter from a working fitting.
 
Thanks PB and Dave. I'm the last person in the world to question things concerning electronics but, wired in parallel PB? That way each tube will be supplied separately? so a "good" one should run fine? My simple mind could better understand if they are wired in series then any problem with one would have an effect on the other? However I'm not going to spend time thinking about this as it all seems to be working fine this morning too.

Regarding these "starters" Dave. My old "fat tube" fittings - which were also 5ft twin units - had little bayonet fitting removable starters in their sides. These new slim tube units which I fitted about 2 years ago, do not have this feature and I've read of people referring to Ballast units which, apparently, take their place? I believe mine have these Ballast units so have no renewable starters? Is this a good thing. Are Ballast units superior to having starters? I'm way out of my "comfort zone" with this.

In my ignorance I can guess that, whatever type I've got, they act a bit like a capacitor when starting by discharging a relatively high "spike" of current through the tube to excite it and initiate excitation of the gas which is then maintained by a much lower current? But I don't really know what I'm talking about here.
 
Hi Jock,

The blackening is coming from the starter filament (it is like a glow plug in a diesel engine to warm up the stuff in the tube prior to attempting to start)

The starter turns on the glow filaments a set time , then turns off the glow plugs and turns on the power to light the tube.

Traditional fluorescent tubes must have a ballast or they can explode.

The starter (glow plug timer and on switch)
Will be inside the fitting if it is not accessible bayonet type.

Cheers

Jack
 
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Hi Jock,

The blackening is coming from the starter filament (it is like a glow plug in a diesel engine to warm up the stuff in the tube prior to attempting to start)

The starter turns on the glow filaments a set time , then turns off the glow plugs and turns on the power to light the tube.

Traditional fluorescent tubes must have a ballast or they can explode.

The starter (glow plug timer and on switch)
Will be inside the fitting if it is not accessible bayonet type.

Cheers

Jack

Thanks Jack I think I almost understand that. Glad to say I've been in and out of my garage all morning getting Becky ready for her MOT on Wednesday - good thing too because she needed new wiper blades and I've discovered a tyre N/S/R with a degree of cracking. Don't think it'll fail on it but i can now start to search for a good price on one - and the light has been behaving itself magnificently! Obviously it's just been the tube. Glad I didn't just go and buy a new batten complete!

So the starter is internal? is it completely integral with the main unit or can it be replaced separately. I ask because, over the years, it occurs to me I've replaced the starters on the old "fat tube" fittings a number of times. Or are these new integral units more durable?
 
Thanks Jack I think I almost understand that. Glad to say I've been in and out of my garage all morning getting Becky ready for her MOT on Wednesday - good thing too because she needed new wiper blades and I've discovered a tyre N/S/R with a degree of cracking. Don't think it'll fail on it but i can now start to search for a good price on one - and the light has been behaving itself magnificently! Obviously it's just been the tube. Glad I didn't just go and buy a new batten complete!

So the starter is internal? is it completely integral with the main unit or can it be replaced separately. I ask because, over the years, it occurs to me I've replaced the starters on the old "fat tube" fittings a number of times. Or are these new integral units more durable?
The only tube fittings I have seen with internal starters have the same type of starter as the external type but it is inside the case so still replaceable. The ones I have seen have a long cover plate that can be removed after the tube has been removed.
 
The only tube fittings I have seen with internal starters have the same type of starter as the external type but it is inside the case so still replaceable. The ones I have seen have a long cover plate that can be removed after the tube has been removed.
Thanks Jack. That can be something to investigate when I've run out of other things to do.
 
The only tube fittings I have seen with internal starters have the same type of starter as the external type but it is inside the case so still replaceable. The ones I have seen have a long cover plate that can be removed after the tube has been removed.
Doesn't seem to be any access other than taking the whole batten fitting off the roof to allow access to the rear of it. Anyway, it's still working just fine with it's new tube so that's obviously been the problem. I've had a very careful look at the other tube and it's a little black at one end so I think it's possibly not long for this world - logical I suppose that if one has worn out the other will soon too? I probably should go and buy a couple of spares being as how the other garage light is the same and the kitchen takes a single 5 ft tube too.

Still puzzled about the starter "thing" and I may just drop the whole light off the ceiling for a look see inside.
 
Speciality tools for the job
15-hammer-png-image-picture.png
 
Speciality tools for the job
15-hammer-png-image-picture.png
Couple of claw hammers thought I, what's so specialist about them. Then I clocked they are not claw hammers are they? So what's the specialist use for these Dave?

PS. Bizarrely perhaps, I can't now get Pink Floyd's "Wall" out of my mind, I've been humming along to it for the last wee while : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrxX9TBj2zY Which then leads me on to one of my all time favorites : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hftlEpHYh0 Oh Gawd help me, I'm going off on one again!
 
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They are just pretty hammers perfect for carefully taking a light fitting apart. ;)
No body else think they are "funny" looking? The curved bit behind the head is not split like a conventional joiner's claw hammer. It's going to trouble me until I find out what this is used for/what trade it relates to.
 
No body else think they are "funny" looking? The curved bit behind the head is not split like a conventional joiner's claw hammer. It's going to trouble me until I find out what this is used for/what trade it relates to.
Hi Jock,

I think it is a computer image generated by a computer technician who had a hammer described to him or her by another computer technician who once saw a hammer.

Best wishes

Jack
 
No body else think they are "funny" looking? The curved bit behind the head is not split like a conventional joiner's claw hammer. It's going to trouble me until I find out what this is used for/what trade it relates to.

They are designed in CAD by people who have only ever seen hammers used on old films of men making ships.
 
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