You should see some of the over head videos being taken by private pilots flying over the major airports which have had their airspace de-restricted as nothing is flying in or out, the runways are lined with airliners
Coronavirus - The Thread :(
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Coronavirus - The Thread :(
Having no idea what..or where..
They will only have supplies on board for 10 to 14 days.. because they call into ports VERY regularly..
SO deliveries keeping people fed are the risk
but they will all be eating the same thing
hammer67xke
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If it was not how the world acted, I would say it is politics in America. Most places in America the flu kills more people than the covid 19. In Kentucky 260 people died of covid 19, and 2600 have died of the flu. The death count of the flu vs covid is that way in the majority of America. This is worse than the Spanish flu of 1918 where 300,000 died, because back then technology and isolation was not used to slow or stop it. Covid 19 and the flu have very low mortality rates. It does spread easier than the flu, I think. America news is dangerous. Hard to know what is true. We hear conflicting reports and do not know what is propaganda.
Just like the "war on drugs", The American government (cia) is responsible for the majority of the drugs in america. They make over $17,000 (in 2000) a kelo in profit according to the book called drugging America the trojan horse. The book info was very conservative in the areas that I had personal knowledge from people fighting against crimes that happened where I lived. smoke and mirrors over here.
Just like the "war on drugs", The American government (cia) is responsible for the majority of the drugs in america. They make over $17,000 (in 2000) a kelo in profit according to the book called drugging America the trojan horse. The book info was very conservative in the areas that I had personal knowledge from people fighting against crimes that happened where I lived. smoke and mirrors over here.
:bang: you have no idea how many in a year covid 19 will kill yet, you have no idea of the real figures of it yet its only just started, the way i see a lot of Americans acting its going to kill a lot more over there.Also like a lot of countries the US is not counting all the deaths properly.
There is also a vaccine for flu. if you had obama care more people could have had it less would die from the flu.
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OP
OP
I was reading about this and why the UK wasn't counting deaths in care homes, it makes sense.
To see how a virus affects the *general* population, you have to take out the "wildcard" part of it.
Of course this isn't to say those people are any less important, just it is expected that the more vulnerable will die, so would skew the results.
So here is my MGO, it is my Covid transport at the moment (we use it for essential shopping) no point in driving the Panda a mile to the shop (OH is disabled)
the gearbox end of the belt drive from underneath. gears are neutral forward and reverse max restricted speed is 72mph (which you can do in reverse if you had the nerve!)
the gearbox end of the belt drive from underneath. gears are neutral forward and reverse max restricted speed is 72mph (which you can do in reverse if you had the nerve!)
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hammer67xke
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When I quoted American deaths comparing flu and covid 19, that is current. It is true more will die on both sides. The final count will tell all, if counted correctly on both sides. Currently America lies on covid deaths. the hospitals get more money for covid patients deaths compared to the flu.
I caution you quoting Obama care when you do not live in country. America is not socialist yet, and Obama care is going down that road. Freedoms are removed, and the size of America, the socialist medicine will be a big scale of the current Veteran Affairs medical. Long lines, long wait times, poor diagnosis, and somebody determines that you are not worth the money for the procedure--so we will not spend money on you. That is not freedom.
Funny, vaccines of flu? In America I know many that get sick feeling after the shot. Many who do not get the shot are also healthy. Some get the shot and still get the flu. The excuse they use is the flu is different than the vaccine, we missed guessed. And finally the person that got the shot and did not get sick-- does not mean that is proof that the vaccine worked-- because that person may not have been exposed to it.
This works on both sides, and like the quote "liers figure, and figures rarely lie."
I caution you quoting Obama care when you do not live in country. America is not socialist yet, and Obama care is going down that road. Freedoms are removed, and the size of America, the socialist medicine will be a big scale of the current Veteran Affairs medical. Long lines, long wait times, poor diagnosis, and somebody determines that you are not worth the money for the procedure--so we will not spend money on you. That is not freedom.
Funny, vaccines of flu? In America I know many that get sick feeling after the shot. Many who do not get the shot are also healthy. Some get the shot and still get the flu. The excuse they use is the flu is different than the vaccine, we missed guessed. And finally the person that got the shot and did not get sick-- does not mean that is proof that the vaccine worked-- because that person may not have been exposed to it.
This works on both sides, and like the quote "liers figure, and figures rarely lie."
Out of curiosity, how many US Covid deaths are directly related to people not having any form of health insurance?
How much does a Covid test cost if you don’t have insurance?
How much does an ITU admission cost without insurance?
What personal freedoms does a person In the USA give up as a result of Obama care?
hammer67xke
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For a short answer and not getting into the weeds too deep.
Covid 19 is free in America.
Most emergency rooms must treat everyone, even if they do not have insurance. Even illegal alliens.
Most people who do not have health insurance choose not to have it. Freedom is a choice. Not sure what county you are from, and do not fully understand freedom and what the constitution of America says. I do not want to offend you, but you need only to speak on things you know of. And you do not know the American laws, rules, freedoms and how the consitiution has been changed and what is ignored in the constitution.
In all saying there is no excuse for people to be treated medically or even go hungry. Every child is given three meals a day if they want it year around. Currently busses drive to locations and give food to any child even if they are not enrolled into school. That is a different subject.
What America is missing is personal responsibility. Responsible for your health, responsible for taking care of your children, and responsible for your crimes you commite. One does the crime, they should do the time. It is not the goverment's bussness to take care of us. That is what family, church, and charities are for if and when a person falls on tough time. The local area's see and know if the individual is milking the system or in real need.
Covid 19 is free in America.
Most emergency rooms must treat everyone, even if they do not have insurance. Even illegal alliens.
Most people who do not have health insurance choose not to have it. Freedom is a choice. Not sure what county you are from, and do not fully understand freedom and what the constitution of America says. I do not want to offend you, but you need only to speak on things you know of. And you do not know the American laws, rules, freedoms and how the consitiution has been changed and what is ignored in the constitution.
In all saying there is no excuse for people to be treated medically or even go hungry. Every child is given three meals a day if they want it year around. Currently busses drive to locations and give food to any child even if they are not enrolled into school. That is a different subject.
What America is missing is personal responsibility. Responsible for your health, responsible for taking care of your children, and responsible for your crimes you commite. One does the crime, they should do the time. It is not the goverment's bussness to take care of us. That is what family, church, and charities are for if and when a person falls on tough time. The local area's see and know if the individual is milking the system or in real need.
Not sure where crimes or feeding children came into the question...
“How many people In the United States have died as a result of not having insurance” now your answer would tend to imply it’s non, buts that not true is it. People are still being turned away for not having insurance?
Also to say not having insurance is a choice is as ignorant as saying being poor is a choice. The poor don’t have insurance because they can’t afford it.
Also doesn’t the affordable care act make it illegal for health insurance companies to discriminate on the grounds of pre-existing conditions, something that used to stop over a fifth of Americans from getting any sort of health insurance..
Still not sure what liberties Obama care has taken from anyone ?
Just because someone doesn’t live in a country, it doesn’t mean they can’t understand what’s going on there. (I get that the other way round most Americans have very little idea of what goes on outside their own country) Let’s be honest you have a president who does not know or understand the constitution but people still elected him!!
Your whole argument here is a contradiction, Obama care is bad as the US is not a socialist country, but Covid care is free for all at any ER (except for the ones who get turned away) all this Covid care is being paid for by the states while the federal government wash their hands of it and pretend everything is ok. Yet all of this is being paid for by multi trillion dollar aid packages being put together in the senate.... so it’s socialist but it’s not socialist because socialism is bad except this socialism is saving some lives. And those who are too poor took a choice to die from a disease they can’t afford to treat, and in those cases the community should look after them and make sure they are not milking the system kinda like socialism..... and you tell me not to talk about what I don’t know about !?
“How many people In the United States have died as a result of not having insurance” now your answer would tend to imply it’s non, buts that not true is it. People are still being turned away for not having insurance?
Also to say not having insurance is a choice is as ignorant as saying being poor is a choice. The poor don’t have insurance because they can’t afford it.
Also doesn’t the affordable care act make it illegal for health insurance companies to discriminate on the grounds of pre-existing conditions, something that used to stop over a fifth of Americans from getting any sort of health insurance..
Still not sure what liberties Obama care has taken from anyone ?
Just because someone doesn’t live in a country, it doesn’t mean they can’t understand what’s going on there. (I get that the other way round most Americans have very little idea of what goes on outside their own country) Let’s be honest you have a president who does not know or understand the constitution but people still elected him!!
Your whole argument here is a contradiction, Obama care is bad as the US is not a socialist country, but Covid care is free for all at any ER (except for the ones who get turned away) all this Covid care is being paid for by the states while the federal government wash their hands of it and pretend everything is ok. Yet all of this is being paid for by multi trillion dollar aid packages being put together in the senate.... so it’s socialist but it’s not socialist because socialism is bad except this socialism is saving some lives. And those who are too poor took a choice to die from a disease they can’t afford to treat, and in those cases the community should look after them and make sure they are not milking the system kinda like socialism..... and you tell me not to talk about what I don’t know about !?
I should also point out at worst the US deaths from the flu tops about 61k but is generally lower for a 12 month period, where as Covid has now killed 65k in a 3 month period which doesn’t seem to me like the flu is comparable.
hammer67xke
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Andy is an example of can not fix stupid.
hammer67xke
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This is also an example why the American British subjects revolted from the country and won the freedom of them. Brits do not really understand the freedom, and why we broke away from them.
America is close to going back to being subjects, but is will be our fault if we vote the current democrat's into office. Then we deserve what we get.
I am done with this stupid back and forth. Pearls before swine, comes to mind.
America is close to going back to being subjects, but is will be our fault if we vote the current democrat's into office. Then we deserve what we get.
I am done with this stupid back and forth. Pearls before swine, comes to mind.
We are perfectly free in the UK
Despite what your American news may lead you to believe
What part of our country do you think isn't "free"?
The above conversation is really interesting. One side is trying to claim helping others through regulation and state funded services (ultimately taxation) is entirely socialist idea as pure as the driven snow, while another describes another world where individuals are free to live and die by their choices and ability to, in every sense, look after themselves.
So there are 2 good discussion points here and let's assume we apply these 2 examples to a relatively well off family. In socialist society they pay more tax than the free one, the free one feels obliged to have either more cash or more private insurance, possibly also more charitable outgoings.
The socialist society runs out of tax money for ideal healthcare so starts top down social engineering and legislation, such as making crash helmets and seat belts the law with police enforcement, to reduce A&E burden.
The free insurance companies also notice these costs and either lobby the small government for legislation (with a vocal public who don't like top down efforts) or instead stop payments on victims of avoidable injury by use of small print so people adjust willingly anyway.
In one state private industry, dealing with higher legislation on the whole, has state encouraged trade unions to answer to with a presumption of right to work.
In the other employers have higher potential staff mobility but also greater obligations to look after them through insurance management and other benefits, because it is good for businesses. Both societies need to make decisions as to how much gets spent on a hard case. Each respective administration has tools, such as direct funding and administration in one, licensing and legal framework for the other, in order to steer the ship.
In a perfect world both might work.
Now take account of the fact that, most, moderate modern countries have a balanced approach between both of these worlds and it is not a perfect world.
Personally I prefer to believe that gently wishing society to function well is not only a 'socialist' idea and it normally boils down to careful management of all resources and maintenance of social expectations and that needs a mix of private employment and good targeted public bodies.
There are many examples old and new where private enterprises have ultimately done their best for a given area such as Bournville at times when it was not socially expected, not least because it is good for business, also sometimes patronising idealigical reasons, and that was unleashed private enterprise for which there are bad examples.
The national coal board is an excellent example of out of control publicly managed disaster.
We can all trot out more to sway according to your private ideals, however, I feel a responsibility to advocate against either extreme as real life needs one or other in the right amount and planting yourself deep in an idealist world hinders a good outcome.
So there are 2 good discussion points here and let's assume we apply these 2 examples to a relatively well off family. In socialist society they pay more tax than the free one, the free one feels obliged to have either more cash or more private insurance, possibly also more charitable outgoings.
The socialist society runs out of tax money for ideal healthcare so starts top down social engineering and legislation, such as making crash helmets and seat belts the law with police enforcement, to reduce A&E burden.
The free insurance companies also notice these costs and either lobby the small government for legislation (with a vocal public who don't like top down efforts) or instead stop payments on victims of avoidable injury by use of small print so people adjust willingly anyway.
In one state private industry, dealing with higher legislation on the whole, has state encouraged trade unions to answer to with a presumption of right to work.
In the other employers have higher potential staff mobility but also greater obligations to look after them through insurance management and other benefits, because it is good for businesses. Both societies need to make decisions as to how much gets spent on a hard case. Each respective administration has tools, such as direct funding and administration in one, licensing and legal framework for the other, in order to steer the ship.
In a perfect world both might work.
Now take account of the fact that, most, moderate modern countries have a balanced approach between both of these worlds and it is not a perfect world.
Personally I prefer to believe that gently wishing society to function well is not only a 'socialist' idea and it normally boils down to careful management of all resources and maintenance of social expectations and that needs a mix of private employment and good targeted public bodies.
There are many examples old and new where private enterprises have ultimately done their best for a given area such as Bournville at times when it was not socially expected, not least because it is good for business, also sometimes patronising idealigical reasons, and that was unleashed private enterprise for which there are bad examples.
The national coal board is an excellent example of out of control publicly managed disaster.
We can all trot out more to sway according to your private ideals, however, I feel a responsibility to advocate against either extreme as real life needs one or other in the right amount and planting yourself deep in an idealist world hinders a good outcome.
I take it by Bournville you mean Cadbury
The up here was close to Britains last built castle.. to save the boss from his employees..
Perception of freedom is a strange one isnt it..
Australian visitors cannot understand how we survive in the UK without armed police..
The up here was close to Britains last built castle.. to save the boss from his employees..
Perception of freedom is a strange one isnt it..
Australian visitors cannot understand how we survive in the UK without armed police..
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Well that plea didn't work :bang:.
A question for BEN :worship: Can you give this thread its own Forum instead of putting it onto every other forum ?
That way folk can pontificate to their hearts content without involving some of us who have simply joined to discuss cars.
.
Yep (to the armed or not armed police) Policing by consent its called, the assumption that they (and by extension the state) are there for your protection and service. It is a very delicate balance and extremists on all sides need to be kept in check for it to work.
I am worried for many, however, the ultimate fix is quiet prosperity and a moderate government expressly avoiding idealogic decisions which unnecessarily rock the boat.
I am worried for many, however, the ultimate fix is quiet prosperity and a moderate government expressly avoiding idealogic decisions which unnecessarily rock the boat.
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don't click to open the thread if you don't want to read it, its that simple.
