Coronavirus - The Thread :(

[09 johno]

Ben, initially the manufacturer stated 4 weeks between doses, but the UK decided a 12 week gap, but this was to get the first dose into as many people as possible giving over 80% effectiveness, there was some research that indicated the longer time frame actually made the vaccine more effective.
We don't really have a choice as to when we get the second dose, its up to the GP's and NHS, also depends on availability.
Take what you can when you can, but minimum is 4 weeks apart 8-12 weeks seems to be the best practice.

 

[ben]

I see - thanks guys

Here they just ask you when do you want the next one and make the appointment accordingly.

I guess there is a possibility that they won't get any more in at all, but I suppose we cross that bridge if it happens.

 

[DaveMcT]

AZ vaccine is safe if injected properly, so don't worry, just ask them to aspirate.

A vaccine for a virus that kills by causing blood clots is likely to have a similar effect at a MUCH reduced level. But the numbers some countries are complaining about were so low as to be unmeasurable.

Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) found 79 cases and 19 deaths after 20 million doses. 79/20 million = 1 in 250,000. The risk is unmeasurably small especially as 8% of covid patients develop lung blood clots.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) found 79 cases and 19 deaths after 20 million doses. 79/20 million = 1 in 250,000. The risk is unmeasurably small

Arguably the risk is 4 in a million..... so not "unmeasurably"

It is a very specific blood clot, (CVT) that does occur in the general population, also there is a question over weather or not we are looking more into things because of covid, 80 year old doris who in 2021 had a stroke just a day or two after there covid vaccine, was investigated and found to die of a CVT, where as 80 year old Dorris who in 2018 died of a 'stroke' they didn't look to much into it, she was old and she had a stroke....

If a blood vessel is hit, it will draw in blood, which is obvious. It appears that some countries always aspirate, others not, and it can vary between those giving the vaccine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuyAtvwP2H4&t=1127s
AZ vaccine is safe if injected properly, so don't worry, just ask them to aspirate. Just typing this having returned from my second dose of AZ. I'm fine so far, but its only been 20 minutes.

When I went for mine, the women who did it "volunteers" where best described as 'dinner-lady-esque' and prodded my arm like they where trying to decide it if was ripe enough, I don't think they drew back, thinking about it, I was just happy that they managed to find the correct muscle and didn't hit the bone.
Realistically there is always a risk of hitting a blood vessel, but in 20 million+ jabs the likelihood of hitting a blood vessel is probably considerably more likely to have occurred than the 4 in a million instances of CVT blood clots that have been recorded.

Something like 24,000 people are struck by lightning every year in the UK?

Much more likely to be killed in a car accident, or hit by a bus?

Some of the issues with the Astra Zeneca vaccine are definitely political. When the EU roll out was going badly and they had issues with the UK roll out and the who Export/import of vaccines, certain people where looking to cast a shadow over the AZ vaccine as it was the "British" vaccine, and what they achieved was casing doubt over there own vaccine program once AZ supplies where shored up

 

[portland_bill]

Realistically there is always a risk of hitting a blood vessel, but in 20 million+ jabs the likelihood of hitting a blood vessel is probably considerably more likely to have occurred than the 4 in a million instances of CVT blood clots that have been recorded.

There is a lot of detail in the vid I linked to. The risk of clots is increased if the patient has a low platelet count. (From memory, I think that's the correct description, but it is something along those lines) So there needs to be other factors too, but it starts with the injectioninto the blood vessel.

Dr. John also shows that there have been more reports of clots, per number of doses, with the J&J vaccine, but strangely less fuss.

 

[nickinom]

Vaccine supplies are coming in very slow for developing and third world countries. Sad reality. Rich countries like the US are very fortunate.

 

[jimboy]

Vaccine supplies are coming in very slow for developing and third world countries. Sad reality. Rich countries like the US are very fortunate.

Aye, realistically we all need to come together on this if we are to eradicate this horrible pandemic. Looking at the TV and witnessing the likes of India and how things are so terrible, is so sad. Countries more stable should/must help other less fortunate countries. There is no other choice.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

We got our second Pfizer jags at around 2.30pm today. Mrs j is feeling absolutely fine so far, just a wee sore spot on the injection site on her arm, I'm not doing quite so well. The first one gave me a very slightly sore spot at site of injection then nothing for nearly 24 hours and then the arm got a bit stiff and sore and a sweaty couple of hours in the wee small hours of the next night, Ok after that.

Now, nearly 4 hours later after my second jag, I've got a really sore arm (left) - feels like muscle cramp as near as I can describe it - and I'm dizzy enough I wouldn't drive and I've got intermittent shivers too. Looking like an early night for me.

The nurse administering my jag warned me that people often experience a more obvious reaction with the second Pfizer jag so to get some paracetamol. As I write this I realize I've now got a bit of a headache starting. Oh well, if that's what it takes I'm happy to endure. - So glad I went for that walk this morning!

 

[jrkitching]

The nurse administering my jag warned me that people often experience a more obvious reaction with the second Pfizer jag

Thanks for that warning - I'm due for my second in a couple of weeks.

Some say a more pronounced side effect is a good sign of a healthy reaction; I'd also say that if the vaccine reaction is that strong, I'd be really glad not to go down with the real thing.

Here's hoping you have as comfortable a night as possible, and that any side effects are mild and short lived.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks for your kind wishes JR. I'm taking the reaction to mean that my system is actively "repelling boarders" and is probably all to the good?

Mrs J got Flue last year, just before the covid struck, which turned into pneumonia and her sat's dropped through the floor. She was placed in the isolation ward at the Western General on oxygen and it all got very dodgy for a while. The wonderful doctors and nurses somehow managed to give her back to me almost as good as when she went in - I can't find words to thank them enough - but if you can get that ill with Flue I sure don't want to get the covid!

 

[Kiltedboarder]

After my 2nd Pfizer I was shattered, felt like I had climbed Everest, whereas the wife had a really sore arm and a huge red Mark

Hope you feel better soon and get a good early night

 

[DaveMcT]

The other day daily Telegraph reported -
Exclusive: Only 32 people hospitalised with Covid after having vaccination
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/20/exclusive-just-32-people-hospital-covid-vaccination/ That's pretty damn good regards immunity though its early days for numbers on long term immunity.

Yesterday, the same outfit was implying that 32 people died directly due to the vaccine. Are we talking about apples and pears. Or is the press messing up (again). The number (32) is a heck of a coincidence.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...blood-clot-astrazeneca-jab-doubles-fortnight/
By the way, such risks cannot double in a fortnight. Either the older data was wrong or the current data is wrong.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

As I posted earlier, We had our second Jags last Thursday mid afternoon. Mrs J has only experienced mild soreness at the site of injection, as she did with the first dose, and mildly "off colour" until about midday on Friday.

Unfortunately I have to report that it's made me feel really quite unwell for the last couple of days. I have a large bruise at the injection site around the size of a 20p piece. My arm feels like I've got muscle cramp right down to the wrist and I've been feeling light headed with alternate hot flushes (I can sympathize with menopausal women on this) and cold shivers and I've had a headache which has intermittently come and gone. Also very tired, I've been in my bed before 9pm every night where I would usually watch the 10 o'clock news first. However I think it's just about done with me now as I've, quite suddenly, been feeling much better since about 4 o'clock this afternoon. The nurse administering my jag did warn me that the Pfizer can "bite" you 2nd time round - and she was right!

 

[09 johno]

Lets hope you feel better soon, sounds like the way I felt after my first Oxford jab hoping the second one (4th June) isn't so bad.

 

[varesecrazy]

Lets hope you feel better soon, sounds like the way I felt after my first Oxford jab hoping the second one (4th June) isn't so bad.

I hear thats the way..

AZ : worse first
PFIZER: easier first

There is also a train of thought whereby previous Covid exposure can effect your reaction to the jab

 

[Cinq999]

After being jabbed like a pin cushion for the fast few weeks, having a blood sample taken every week, I've had some results through today and the doctor rang me.

So just before my 1st Pfizer jab around 6 weeks ago, they took a blood sample which was 6 months after my 2nd AZ jab. The doctor said my antibody levels were still relatively high, and produced a good response during testing, which is good news.

Then I had my first Pfizer jab....felt slightly rough for a couple of days after, but not too bad.

Then I've had a blood sample taken every week since.

Doctor said after week 3, my immune response was "massively high", not just for Covid antibodies, but also the T cell response and the other immune cells.

She said it was just as effective against "all current variants" as the original strain, so guessing Indian variant as well.

For the next 6 weeks until my 2nd Pfizer dose, I've got a blood sample every two weeks, then again every 2 weeks after that until further notice.

But the most important thing is, it looks like mix/match does work, and a booster dose does provide protection against variants.....so hopefully by autumn, if they give whole country a booster, we should be okay for the foreseeable future. Even if it doesn't stop mild infections, just keeping people out of hospital and dying has got to be the main goal.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I managed to see the news last night and feeling very much better today although still have a stiffness in the arm and a bit light headed and slightly dizzy still.

Previous exposure Charlie? As I've mentioned elsewhere Mrs J was very ill indeed with Flue "A" - confirmed in testing at the hospital - just before the whole Covid "thing" got going last year. She got pneumonia very seriously and was on a ventilator with oxygen in the infectious diseases isolation ward for over a week.

Last autumn we had our flue jags to which I got a mild but definite reaction whereas she got no reaction at all. Our Doc thinks this is probably because of her infection earlier that year. I'm wondering if there could be some element at work here in her lack of perceived reaction to the Covid jag compared to my quite obvious and slightly debilitating reaction?

The "train of thought" to which you refer, does it suggest a lesser reaction due to previous exposure to the virus or a more severe reaction. I ask because it occurs to me that she goes to the supermarket much more often than I do so could have come into contact when I hadn't, which might explain her lack of obvious reaction to the jags?

 

[ben]

I actually changed my appointment and got the jab (AZ) last Friday - felt fine after and went to the gym in the evening.

Next day was a different story though, the injection site hurt so much, I couldn't move my arm (more specifically do any activity that tenses the muscle) - raising it higher than a few cm was painful - sleeping on it was impossible too.

Also got hit with the sickness feeling, which lasted a day and then left - the tiredness hasn't though, I am still sleeping all the time

No regrets though - I'm halfway ready to get back home to Nando's

 

[DaveMcT]

Ive had the AZ jab before Easter. Not yet heard about a follow-up. I had assumed the second jab would be the same vaccine. We will see.

 

[David C]

Ive had the AZ jab before Easter. Not yet heard about a follow-up. I had assumed the second jab would be the same vaccine. We will see.

Yes the 2nd jab should match the first.

There is an ongoing trial for mixed doses, but that is currently still a trial.
Becomes more important later on when 3rd booster jabs are needed, so it is to see if a different jab is ok then.

I've not heard anything to say that 2nd jabs will be mixed.

My 1st AZ jab was 20th March, so 2nd due before the 1st week of June.