Coronavirus - The Thread :(

[09 johno]

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7m1nwu

 

[DaveMcT]

I had flu a couple of years ago. As soon as I was able to get out of the house, I went to my GP as a precaution who said I did indeed have a chest infection and prescribed Amoxycillin. Four days later I was declining. Another trip to the GP feeling dog rough. I was borderline for hospital in-patient treatment but as I'd walked in the GP gave me a combination antibiotic. It worked but I was seriously close to a very bad situation. Infection happens very fast and can kill in hours.

I was in my late 50s. However I have friends who in their 30s developed flu with pneumonia. One was as fit as you get in your twenties, yet had a spell on a ventilator and was off work for two months.

This new SARS type virus is technically not infuenza but it is far more infectious and symptoms and the damage it causes are at least as bad.

 

[Cinq999]

My view is that as a free health service, the NHS is one of the best in the world.

Yes, other countries may have better....but I'd expect that if I'm paying out 1000's for an operation, or if I'm paying a dedicated health insurance.

My cousin in the US used to be in the army, and last year one of his ex-unit, a veteran, needed an operation, but couldn't afford health insurance. There was no option of free treatment.... either he payed or nothing. In the end, all those in his old unit and many others donated, and they paid the $8000 bill.

People bitch and moan about the NHS, but they'd soon kick up a fuss if they had to pay.

And something else I've had personal experience of....better equipment doesn't mean better service.

I worked in the ambulance service of a European country for a while. A country with a free health service, and better equipment than our NHS ambulances. But the level of care, was unbelievably worse.

It got to the point where we were directed that if we felt the patient wouldn't survive by the time we made it to A+E, don't bother. I always remember turning up to a RTC where a pedestrian had been hit by a car. A crew was already on scene, and there was a blanket covering the casualty. I assumed he had passed away....but no, he had a nasty head injury, but was alive and breathing. The crew had decided he wouldn't survive, so left him to die on the street! To cut a long story short, me and my colleague took him in, and he survived and made a full recovery.

But....I got a right b******ing from my supervisor for overriding the original crew.

Needless to say, I quit.

Sorry for the long rant....but we should be thanking our luck stars that we live here in the UK and we have the NHS....the world is envious of us.

And coming back to the here and now, if everyone did what they should, stayed home, then that is key to reducing the pressure on the NHS.

Also if we're able, the NHS will be looking for more volunteers in the near future. They've already received 750'000 applications to help, let's get that to over a million. If only 1% of those volunteers do something that stops someone going into hospital, that's 7500 beds saved.

 

[varesecrazy]

Just to specify.. if you 'volunteered'
And you resided outside ENGLAND you wont be contacted

 

[ben]

Eurgh, Taiwan made it compulsory to wear masks on public transit now.

I've only had it on for 10 mins and it's already irritating me, really hard to breath and it really heats up.

I can see why UK people are resisting wearing them.

 

[lazylobster]

My view is that as a free health service, the NHS is one of the best in the world.

To advise, NHS is not free, you are paying for it via small part of NI contribs and general taxation.

But yes, no big bills unlike other health care in other countries.


R

 

[09 johno]

Eurgh, Taiwan made it compulsory to wear masks on public transit now.

I've only had it on for 10 mins and it's already irritating me, really hard to breath and it really heats up.

I can see why UK people are resisting wearing them.

could you get away with a full Perspex/polycarb face-shield instead of a face mask?

I bought one a month or so ago because I am fed up with misting up goggles when grinding or cutting, if this gets to that stage here its what I will be using.

 

[Goudrons]

The amount of broken stuff and things that date back to the 70s 80s and 90s is shocking.

Never did I say anything was not ‘fit for purpose’

Broken is pretty much not fit for purpose.

your assumption that we have the best kit in the world.... we don’t.

I didn't make this assumption.

I made this statement.

I've never seen any evidence of anyone having better medical kit than the NHS.

There is a marked difference between the two.
You assumed I wrote something, even though what I had written is readily available in a previous post, when I actually made a statement of not seeing evidence.
The correct response if you disagreed would be to supply the evidence if it existed, not make an incorrect assumption I wrote something else.

I do enjoy how people’s agenda’s twist and turn on these forums as people get challenged.

This obviously includes your own, otherwise you'd be more accurate, you don't need to make assumptions about what has been written when it's there in a post in plain sight and contradicting ones self is never a base for a sound discussion.

because in your last post you made comments about the types of beds being used in the nightingale hospital, which are just not correct

Was it really, I assume you will of course explain the difference between the different beds used in the NHS, I'm particularly interested in the electric ICU beds and how they'd work when the power goes off, but you'd know how the generators back up vital systems which electric beds aren't.

ICU beds are manual for a reason, they are quick and easy to fold flat under any condition, with or without power, but to highlight this further, the Nightingale will have 4000 beds spread over 100,000 square metres, that's a lot of unnecessary plugs and leads to set up and trip over, but you state they should be top of the range electric ones (can you describe one, I've never heard a bed called this were I work) but offer no explanation why, yet you are prepared to question others.

 

[DaveMcT]

Face masks (as in dust masks) provide minimal protection to the wearer (1) because they do not seal against the outside air, (2) uncomfortable so user loosens them, (3) dirt, bugs and viruses build up and concentrate on the outside so user gets exposed to concentrated toxic crap.

The good news is they can be cleaned in alcohol.

The fabric masks used in Taiwan and Asia generally are not for the user's benefit. As with operating theatres anywhere, they are to protect others in the room. They prevent coughs (and maybe sneezes) from contaminating others nearby.

PHE says there is no point using masks unless you have symptoms. But how can this be right?
(1) We are told the infected often have no symptoms so they go about spreading virus for days. A simple mask would help contain coughs etc to themselves.
(2) If there was no point why do Taiwan, S Korea, etc use them and how do we know this is not contributing to their relative success against the disease?
(3) Why would people in those areas treat you as pariah if there was no point?

 

[Goudrons]

Face masks (as in dust masks) provide minimal protection to the wearer (1) because they do not seal against the outside air, (2) uncomfortable so user loosens them, (3) dirt, bugs and viruses build up and concentrate on the outside so user gets exposed to concentrated toxic crap.

What you describe above can make them more of a problem than you first think.

Whichever way they are used, covering the mouth and nose of someone infected or protected those that are not, they get fiddled with.

As Ben describes, they are pretty uncomfortable and wearers tend to "adjust" them with their hands all the time, so they are constantly touching their mask/face then touching other things, spreading the virus one way or the other.

They do seem more effective when worn by people used to wearing them.


I think we've all seen someone with a mask on their chin, head, pulled to one side having a fag (jesus, some decent hand to mouth action there) or dangling between a big pair of you know what's.

I hold my hands up and say I'm no expert on this but it does appear people in Japan and south east Asia that wear them, even when there's no outbreak, don't seem to fiddle as much with them as it's become as common as wearing a hat to some, though I guess Ben might have a better idea.


I guess if you want to wear one it's a trade off, they're good if used properly, if not they can be a liability.

There are guides on some hospital websites about how to use different types of mask, it might be worth looking them up before anyone decides.

I wear a mask most of the night as I'm on a CPAP machine, so when I need to wear one at work, it rarely bothers me, but before the CPAP they drove me bloody mad!

 

[AndyRKett]

Broken is pretty much not fit for purpose.

and things that date back to the 70s 80s and 90s is shocking.

You're playing tit for tat now. Not everything is broken. Just because something is broke or missing parts like a bed missing the foot rest, doesn't mean it can't be used. Many a time I have seen things "fixed" with medical tape.

I didn't make this assumption.

I made this statement.

There is a marked difference between the two.
You assumed I wrote something, even though what I had written is readily available in a previous post, when I actually made a statement of not seeing evidence.

OK you made a statement. The context of your statement is that no one else has better equipment than the NHS. Obviously this is not true, hence my comment about NHS patients having to travel abroad for treatments. We buy the same kit in the UK as other hospitals buy abroad. Many heath care equipment companies are german. Siemens is very good at making the CT scanners you talked about. Go look up what a german hospital looks like for kit and equipment. The way the german health care system is funded they spend more than twice what we do in the UK.

The correct response if you disagreed would be to supply the evidence if it existed, not make an incorrect assumption I wrote something else.

I provided anecdotal evidence. Feel free to look it up.

Was it really, I assume you will of course explain the difference between the different beds used in the NHS, I'm particularly interested in the electric ICU beds and how they'd work when the power goes off, but you'd know how the generators back up vital systems which electric beds aren't.

ICU beds are manual for a reason, they are quick and easy to fold flat under any condition, with or without power, but to highlight this further, the Nightingale will have 4000 beds spread over 100,000 square metres, that's a lot of unnecessary plugs and leads to set up and trip over, but you state they should be top of the range electric ones (can you describe one, I've never heard a bed called this were I work) but offer no explanation why, yet you are prepared to question others.

So this is the sort of thing that makes me question your claim of having worked in hospitals for 31 years.. Which I note you've still not clarified what you do?

Anyone who has worked in ITU (CCU or what ever acronym you want to use for intensive care) will know it's impossible to reposition an ITU patient on your own without an electric bed. There are many tricks you can use with an ITU bed to move someone to the position you want on your own adjusting the bed electrically and then using gravity and slide sheets. Also from what I have seen from the nightingale hospitals they are also using electric beds, just not the "top of the range" ones we'd use in ITU. More akin to the type used on normal wards (see below)

As for if there is a power cut, well every staff member who has undergone any sort of resus training will know every bed has a handle that collapses the bed flat using gravity and disengaging the motors. aside from that good ITU beds have a back up battery... That's kinda obvious, but not quick enough if you need to do CPR hence the handle.
looks like this

Also worth noting the comment you made I was referring to was your comment about the use of pressure relieving mattresses.
Here is why you're wrong about this. The arrows that are not labeled are pointing towards the pressure relieving mattress and the air pump used to inflate it.

You need loads of plugs for an ITU bed, putting an extra plug in for the bed is not going make the world of difference. I can count probably 13 3 pin plug sockets in the back of that photo without being able to see whats behind the headboard or the computer monitor.


So.... what do you actually do in the NHS as you don't seem very well informed.

 

[Goudrons]

I didn't write one thing then contradict it later, I only pointed it out, I'm sure it was obvious to others as well and that's hardly tit for tat, but that comment is pretty revealing about your intentions here if you think like that.

OK you made a statement. The context of your statement is that no one else has better equipment than the NHS.

Thanks for telling me what I meant in my statement, though you are wrong.
That may be a shock to you but I actually know what Imeant when I wrote it.
You have read into it and made assumptions you wanted for another purpose.

I-me have never seen (with my own eyes) evidence of anyone having better kit than the NHS and still haven't.


I have been to visit hospitals in Frankfurt, Paris and Brussels and was due to visit another one in Berne Switzerland, along with a supplier until this outbreak scuppered the trip and I repeat, I've never seen any evidence of anyone having any better kit.
I have looked and failed to see it, though if I do, I'll know it and believe it.
I know some of it is as good as ours as it came from us.


I have also sent time personally in a hospital in Greece and their kit was far older than anything I've seen elsewhere, it worked fine and their level of care was perhaps slightly higher, those it was a small local hospital.

I did laugh when the radiologist told me she trained at one of our sites.

 

[Italian Job]

I didn't write one thing then contradict it later, I only pointed it out, I'm sure it was obvious to others as well and that's hardly tit for tat,

Not obvious to me.

 

[jimboy]

FFS I'm still having kippers for breakfast tomorrow.....

 

[AndyRKett]

.

I-me have never seen (with my own eyes) evidence of anyone having better kit than the NHS and still haven't.

this is the exact argument flat earthers use “I’ve not seen it with my own eyes and therefore it is not true” you can show these people all the evidence in the world and they will still give the same argument.

As for what you actually do working in the NHS for 31 years, even the hospitals chief exec isn’t flying to as many foreign hospitals as you claim to be.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

FFS I'm still having kippers for breakfast tomorrow.....

My mum used to love kippers for breakfast, never could get my head round that. Used to quite like the continentals with their salamis, hams and fresh rolls but now I'm strictly a porridge or weetabix man - Special K if I'm feeling guilty about eating too much!

Can anyone tell me if the conversations taking place in this thread are going to affect the care I receive If I have to go into the hospital? If not I think I'm going to stop opening this thread as it's depressing the hell out of me!

 

[dave]

My view is that as a free health service

if you crash your car and the insurance fix it do you call that free? would you be happy of instead of using new parts they just told the bodyshop to use filler and rattle cans?

 

[dave]

I can see why UK people are resisting wearing them.

resisting wearing them they cant find stock of them even if they wanted to, ive seen loads of people over hear wearing filthy dirty masks and no gloves, then rub there eyes or mouth under the mask with their fingers

what is the reasoning for them over there?

we are getting your masks and its pissing of the Chinese apparently https://www.ft.com/content/e47a8cf4...zaighnJyXhpQ2Vy6yK2Va-U7yPt1Ol_4Q3cf0485EODVg

 

[Cinq999]

if you crash your car and the insurance fix it do you call that free? would you be happy of instead of using new parts they just told the bodyshop to use filler and rattle cans?

Except they wouldn't use filler and rattle cans as they have to provide a certain level of service.

Just as the NHS provides a certain level of service.

If I paid thousands of pounds for a private operation, I'd expect a better service.

But like the majority of the people in this country, I'm glad I'm able to be treated to a good standard and in a timely fashion.....and not left to die on the street.

Being technical, no it's not free....even if it worked out at £1 a day, that's sod all for what it could cost me.

My mother had a hernia repair done privately. NHS had a 3 month waiting list. Fortunately my parents had the money to spare, so they paid £3500 and it was done a week later.

Private hospital, same NHS doctor. Was the service any better....not really....they discharged her and within 20 minutes in the car she was bleeding everywhere.

What I do know is that we've had nothing but good experiences with the NHS. They've saved my father's life on more than one occasion, and for what is essentially a "budget insurance", they've done the job of a premier insurance.

No they don't have the best or newest equipment, I know, I've worked on the front line. However I've always had what I needed. Maybe not the best, but it's done the job.

I think most of us here can relate to that. I drive a Fiat Panda. I could afford to drive something much newer and better. However, it gets me from A to B, and it does its job just fine. By not spending out the money on a newer or better car, I can spend my money on other things.

Welcome to the real world....the NHS is the same. Got a problem with that, take out private medical insurance, and stop bitching about something a hell of a lot of people in this world would give their right arm for.

 

[dave]

I-me have never seen (with my own eyes) evidence of anyone having better kit than the NHS and still haven't.

Have i missed the bit where you actually said what you do in the nhs? we all know what Andy did and will do again and even what his wife does, so not only do i trust what he says on this subject i would also trust him with my life. But we don't even know if you really do anything.

Not obvious to me.

or me

FFS I'm still having kippers for breakfast tomorrow.....

My mum used to love kippers for breakfast,

oi this not a food thread try here https://www.fiatforum.com/leisure-lounge/13346-my-supper-92.html