General Clutch

[Accc1987]

Hi folks.

I have the 1.9JTD punto. 2006

Last few days my bitting point got lower and lower and now clutch pedal hits the floor and clutch doesn’t engage. Could it just be a stretched clutch cable?

Regards in advance

Andrew

 

[chris3234]

Checking the cable/fluid if hydrolic would likely be the first step do you feel any resistance when pressing the pedal down?

 

[portland_bill]

Cables don't really stretch, or not by a measurable amount.

First, are you sure it is a cable? Or is this an assumption?

Find the other end, at the gearbox. There will be a lever on the gearbox operated either by the cable or a hydraulic cylinder. Get someone to push the pedal down while you watch the lever. See if it travels as far as expected, or barely at all.

If it does not move far enough, hydraulics or cable are at fault. If it moves OK, but clutch does not disengage, gearbox needs to come out. Either needs a new clutch, or the release pivot or fork need attention.

 

[Accc1987]

Checking the cable/fluid if hydrolic would likely be the first step do you feel any resistance when pressing the pedal down?

Thanks for the reply. You feel resistance for about an inch from the floor that it all.

 

[Accc1987]

Cables don't really stretch, or not by a measurable amount.

First, are you sure it is a cable? Or is this an assumption?

Find the other end, at the gearbox. There will be a lever on the gearbox operated either by the cable or a hydraulic cylinder. Get someone to push the pedal down while you watch the lever. See if it travels as far as expected, or barely at all.

If it does not move far enough, hydraulics or cable are at fault. If it moves OK, but clutch does not disengage, gearbox needs to come out. Either needs a new clutch, or the release pivot or fork need attention.

Thanks for the reply. The clutch goes all the way down, but only comes up a inch if that on release. And it doesn’t engage the clutch at all. Resistance is only for about an inch from the floor. It’s an assumption as it happened on way to parents so had to drive it in second all the way there and left it as it’s dark now.

 

[chris3234]

That sounds more like it's a hydrolic system then cable
And it's been leaking fluid until it's got to the point where the clutch will no longer engage
Check under the bonnet for a clutch fluid reservoir and look at the fluid level

 

[Moimo]

If the system is the same as mine and similar to a lot of modern cars the fluid reservoir will be shared with the brake fluid, it is likely that it is a concentric slave so the hydraulics will be inside the gearbox bell housing, meaning that there will only be a pipe with a connection going into the gear box, no leaver to see. It is well worth bleeding the system as if it’s been a small leak over a period of time then you can buy yourself some time and get the system working again, obviously speed of leak will depend how long for. If you look up concentric slave on eBay you will see pics of the item and then it is quite clear how it operates. I have seen this before and having bled the system as a gesture of good will with a full brief not to expect it to work for long, then not seen that fault again, you never know your luck. If you detect the leak then you know that there is a failure in the system.

 

[Accc1987]

That sounds more like it's a hydrolic system then cable

And it's been leaking fluid until it's got to the point where the clutch will no longer engage

Check under the bonnet for a clutch fluid reservoir and look at the fluid level

Thank you for your reply I’ll have a look for this. I’ll keep you updated.

 

[Accc1987]

If the system is the same as mine and similar to a lot of modern cars the fluid reservoir will be shared with the brake fluid, it is likely that it is a concentric slave so the hydraulics will be inside the gearbox bell housing, meaning that there will only be a pipe with a connection going into the gear box, no leaver to see. It is well worth bleeding the system as if it’s been a small leak over a period of time then you can buy yourself some time and get the system working again, obviously speed of leak will depend how long for. If you look up concentric slave on eBay you will see pics of the item and then it is quite clear how it operates. I have seen this before and having bled the system as a gesture of good will with a full brief not to expect it to work for long, then not seen that fault again, you never know your luck. If you detect the leak then you know that there is a failure in the system.

Perfect I’ll check this on Tuesday and let everyone know.

Appreciate all the responses

 

[Accc1987]

Hello everyone. I tried to bleed the system today but no such luck. I have the bleed nipple but all I was getting out of that was minimal fluid and lots of air. Opened and closed it at least 20/30 times and no luck.

 

[aurick86]

Continue bleeding it until you no longer have any air coming out.

(That looks so similar to the M32 box on My T-jet)

It takes hours to bleed the clutch ..make sure you continue topping up the reservoir.
Have somebody in the car doing the pumping.

2-3 pumps=> pedal pressed => release nipple =>tighten nipple
Repeat X 100

The clutch line is't a straight direct piece of pipe... it goes through a restrictor and then there is a loop and some more nonsense just to make it feel a certain way.

Pushing a few bubbles of air through all that is really difficult.
A vacuum bleeder might work better.


When i replaced the clutch on mine. and had to bleed the clutch i had to re-bleed it over the next few days.. because at first start the pedal felt mushy .. about 4 days later it was finally ok.

When i bled mine i used a one-way check valve to be able to bleed it by myself.
something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hydraulic-Brake-Bleeder-CNC-Billet-Aluminum-One-Way-Valve-Check-Siphon-Tool-Kit-/182055523241

It works better on brakes than the the clutch.. but i did manage to use it.

 

[Accc1987]

Continue bleeding it until you no longer have any air coming out.

(That looks so similar to the M32 box on My T-jet)

It takes hours to bleed the clutch ..make sure you continue topping up the reservoir.
Have somebody in the car doing the pumping.

2-3 pumps=> pedal pressed => release nipple =>tighten nipple
Repeat X 100

The clutch line is't a straight direct piece of pipe... it goes through a restrictor and then there is a loop and some more nonsense just to make it feel a certain way.

Pushing a few bubbles of air through all that is really difficult.
A vacuum bleeder might work better.


When i replaced the clutch on mine. and had to bleed the clutch i had to re-bleed it over the next few days.. because at first start the pedal felt mushy .. about 4 days later it was finally ok.

When i bled mine i used a one-way check valve to be able to bleed it by myself.
something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hydraulic-...Way-Valve-Check-Siphon-Tool-Kit-/182055523241

It works better on brakes than the the clutch.. but i did manage to use it.

Perfect I’ll try again tomorrow lol. My pedal is still just no resistance. From it being pressed to the floor there’s nothing.

 

[nikrox]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GUNSON-O...639549?hash=item2a067f687d:g:aPEAAOSwHhpZ3fs2

This is what I use...NOT saying buy this one just using the image as reference.Available from places like Halfords or ECP

 

[Ben D]

When I had my box replaced the clutch was not right so bled it until it was. I used the same as I use for my brakes which is a draper one man bleed kit. Worked fine every time I've had to use it.

My concern would be the reason it needs bleeding. If it was fine and now isn't, you have a leak somewhere that needs to be addressed asap. Brakes and clutch share same reservoir, get it all checked out properly.

Cheers

Ben

 

[portland_bill]

Bleeding it will not fix the problem.
If air has got in, fluid has got out.
Master cylinder letting air in, or fluid out? Check carpet above pedal for damp.
Slave letting fluid out? You're stuffed. Gearbox out to fix as it is a concentric cylinder. Probably best to replace the clutch at same time, as little extra labour.

 

[Accc1987]

Thanks for the info. I’ll check it soon. Wouldn’t I see the fluid coming out the slave when trying to bleed it?
Thanks for the reply

 

[portland_bill]

If the master cylinder is not pumping, you'll get little or nothing at the slave bleed.
Also check for leaks along the pipes.
If the slave is leaking, I'd still expect to be able to bleed.
But. Each push of the master cylinder only moves a small amount of fluid. Air trapped is pushed, but may not travel all the way along with one push. As the pedal is released for the next push, the air and fluid can travel back up the pipe towards the master cylinder, so instead of gently pushing it along, you are just moving it back and forth.
Get help.
Open bleed nipple, just enough, get assistant to push pedal gently all the way down and hold. Tighten nipple. Gently release pedal.
Repeat.
A leak from the slave will be inside the clutch housing. Look underneath for it leaking out, might be a drip, or just a wet patch.

 

[digger58]

Bleeding it will not fix the problem.
If air has got in, fluid has got out.
Master cylinder letting air in, or fluid out? Check carpet above pedal for damp.
Slave letting fluid out? You're stuffed. Gearbox out to fix as it is a concentric cylinder. Probably best to replace the clutch at same time, as little extra labour.

Picture he put up looks like external slave!

 

[Accc1987]

I’ve checked carpets no wet patches ect. I’ll try find the leak. I’m not too clued up with clutches tbh I find all your advice very helpful.

 

[aurick86]

Picture he put up looks like external slave!

No,... that actually looks like a internal concentric bearing/slave cylinder.



OP, you should try pressure bleeding, while slightly pressing the clutch pedal (down-up...repeat).