Technical Clutch failure @ 12,000 miles

[D4nny8oy]

Its a shame we havent had any word from BSM instructors on here, especially ones who had Corsa`s prior to 500`s...

Never had any clutch replacements or wear issues on any BSM 500's (petrol and diesel), or any other 500, at our place.

Only problems were two cases of master cylinder's failing internally leaving the pedal stuck at the floor as the seals didn't pump the fluid to the slave.

 

[a73uk]

Never had any clutch replacements or wear issues on any BSM 500's (petrol and diesel), or any other 500, at our place.

Only problems were two cases of master cylinder's failing internally leaving the pedal stuck at the floor as the seals didn't pump the fluid to the slave.

Bloody hell! Has there been a recall on that?

 

[T14086]

2 cases! (out of how many 500's sold!)

 

[a73uk]

2 cases that Danny knows about T14, & as far as safety faults go, thats a fairly big one wouldnt you say...

2 cases! (out of how many 500's sold!)

 

[T14086]

no I would say thats well within predicted falure rate.

 

[Ulpian]

Anyway, you can drive a car quite safely without a clutch - or just bring it to a stop. I remember when a clutch cable snapped on a Citroen I was driving in the middle of Portugal, at night. I was able to get home simply by timing gear changes with engine speed and I managed to go up and down the gearbox with barely a crunch. It was incredible actually.

I limped into the drive and stalled the car. The following morning a man came with a replacement cable and the thing was fixed in ten minutes.

 

[D4nny8oy]

2 cases that Danny knows about T14, & as far as safety faults go, thats a fairly big one wouldnt you say...

Not really. The problem only occured when the vehicle was stopped and clutch pedal held down for a long period of time while out of gear- fluid gradually leaked back to the reservoir, then failed to release the clutch when trying to select first.

It's hardly dangerous if the vehicle is stuck stationary- and even then, pumping the pedal a couple of times would restore function for a while. One of the cars was being driven by a Salesman (with little mechanical knowledge), and managed to happily drive through the busy centre of town at rush hour without issues.

2 clutch master cylinders out of many thousands used on both 500's and Panda's, and Ford Ka's, is well within the normal margin of failure expected to occur with mass-produced parts.

 

[jrkitching]

If you think about it, you likely depress the clutch pedal far more frequently than you depress the brake pedal & the clutch hydraulics will likely fail first.

The clutch hydraulic system on my 500 seems very flimsy to me and appears to be a bit of a hack when FIAT converted the car to RHD.

I'd suggest to anyone doing their own maintenance that they change the clutch fluid whenever they change the brake fluid.

I wonder - do the dealers do this as part of the 2yr brake fluid change?

 

[306maxi]

I'd suggest to anyone doing their own maintenance that they change the clutch fluid whenever they change the brake fluid.

I wonder - do the dealers do this as part of the 2yr brake fluid change?

Overkill.

The brake fluid needs to be changed more often as it absorbs water which lowers its boiling point. Boiling is not a problem for clutch fluid.

 

[jrkitching]

I agree that boiling is not a problem for the clutch but that's not the only reason for changing the fluid. Corrosion caused by the absorbed moisture will rust the steel components and once this happens the seals will not last for very long.

Stripping down brake & clutch cylinders on cars where the fluid hasn't been changed regularly almost always reveals rusty pistons & bores.

For the slight extra work when you've got the bleeding toolkit out, it is to me a worthwhile extra precaution.

 

[D4nny8oy]

The 2 failures we had were new (under 1000 miles) cars. It was just a faulty couple of units- nothing to fret about.

Rust can't have been a cause as the master cylinder body and internals are plastic, with rubber seals. In fact, so is the slave (only the rod is metal, but it doesn't come into contact with the fluid).

 

[jrkitching]

Rust can't have been a cause as the master cylinder body and internals are plastic, with rubber seals. In fact, so is the slave (only the rod is metal, but it doesn't come into contact with the fluid).

That's useful info - thanks. I'd still worry that, in the long term, corrosion on the pushrod could flake off into the fluid & damage the seals but that's obviously not going to happen on a 1000 mile car.

 

[306maxi]

Meh. For the money you will spend on changing the clutch fluid every 2 years for however long you have the car you could just buy a spare master and slave cylinder and have it sitting in your garage ready to go.

 

[jrkitching]

Meh. For the money you will spend on changing the clutch fluid every 2 years for however long you have the car you could just buy a spare master and slave cylinder and have it sitting in your garage ready to go.

Agreed it's probably overkill (& much less of an issue if all the bits are plastic) but it's not going to cost anything if you're doing the brakes at the same time & gives you something useful to do with that last bit of new brake fluid that always seems to be left over & would otherwise have to go in the bin.

 

[Spoons]

Anyone else had clutch issues?

Yes me...

59 Plate 1.2 Sport

4 months old... 4000 miles and master cylinder siezed.

Replaced under warrantee. works fine now on 6,500 miles

 

[D4nny8oy]

Technically not a clutch wear/friction plate issue, which is what a73uk is after.

 

[a73uk]

Ohhh, I thought you meant the brake master, not the clutch... fair enough...

Not really. The problem only occured when the vehicle was stopped and clutch pedal held down for a long period of time while out of gear- fluid gradually leaked back to the reservoir, then failed to release the clutch when trying to select first.

It's hardly dangerous if the vehicle is stuck stationary- and even then, pumping the pedal a couple of times would restore function for a while. One of the cars was being driven by a Salesman (with little mechanical knowledge), and managed to happily drive through the busy centre of town at rush hour without issues.

2 clutch master cylinders out of many thousands used on both 500's and Panda's, and Ford Ka's, is well within the normal margin of failure expected to occur with mass-produced parts.

 

[a73uk]

Ok, update.

Went in first thing Monday, he had a call on Tuesday to say the clutch wasnt going to be covered under warranty again as it was worn not broken (so then why didnt they replace the 1st one under warranty that obviously wasnt worn but was broken ), however the were going to replace the clutch master under warranty as it was leaking (a contributing factor?) as well as fitting a new starter under warranty as it was noisy & starting to struggle.

He got it back Tuesday night (quicker than normal from them, I`m wondering if they really did do the strip down & examination...) & they did the clutch at cost price as it was the 4th in under 50,000 miles (£430).

He got the old clutch back & said it is visably worn this time.

He`s now deciding whether he wants to risk getting more Fiats (maybe diesel or a 1.4 as the clutches should be stronger in theory) or whether to change brand entirely.

I have been looking out for upgraded/sports clutches for the 1.2 for him, but nothing so far.

 

[a73uk]

Oh, & what engines are the BSM ones? I`m guessing densils?

Never had any clutch replacements or wear issues on any BSM 500's (petrol and diesel), or any other 500, at our place.

Only problems were two cases of master cylinder's failing internally leaving the pedal stuck at the floor as the seals didn't pump the fluid to the slave.

 

[306maxi]

Ok, update.

Went in first thing Monday, he had a call on Tuesday to say the clutch wasnt going to be covered under warranty again as it was worn not broken (so then why didnt they replace the 1st one under warranty that obviously wasnt worn but was broken ), however the were going to replace the clutch master under warranty as it was leaking (a contributing factor?) as well as fitting a new starter under warranty as it was noisy & starting to struggle.

He got it back Tuesday night (quicker than normal from them, I`m wondering if they really did do the strip down & examination...) & they did the clutch at cost price as it was the 4th in under 50,000 miles (£430).

He got the old clutch back & said it is visably worn this time.

He`s now deciding whether he wants to risk getting more Fiats (maybe diesel or a 1.4 as the clutches should be stronger in theory) or whether to change brand entirely.

I have been looking out for upgraded/sports clutches for the 1.2 for him, but nothing so far.

Clutch is the same on the 1.4 as on the 1.2.

Clutch is 96.88 ex VAT on shop4parts so they're hardly doing a great deal unless there's a lot of labour involved.