Panda (Classic) Charmanda(er) - mania continued......

[blu73]

Yay, parts, my favourite lol.

Sump, timing belt cover & fuel pump. Pump is completely overkill, its a 4 bar pump but hey, it will run the engine no problems lol - even if it ended up turbocharged its plenty powerful enough (not that i'm planning to, but i wasn't planning to do engine conversion either so you never know lol)

I think original birth are my new favourite aftermarket manufacturer of parts, everything I've had of there's has been second to none on quality and this belt cover is excellent, if anything better than factory.

Not actually first deliveries but I didn't think new thread locker and sump sealer was that exciting.

 

[blu73]

So normally when doing this kinda overhaul I have started with an engine thats in a car.. And when you do that, before you drop the engine out you can use a wedge in the flywheel or get a friend to use a hefty screwdriver in the flywheel to stop it rotating while you crack off the bolt that holds the bottom crank sprocket on - its really damned tight that bolt...

Now I am at home on my own and I just have the engine on my crane to hold it up, i don't have a engine stand sadly. Trying to undo said bolt so i can replace the fron crank seal and not fairing well. I tried putting some bolts in the crank on other end (where the bolts that hold flywheel on the crank screw in), screwing them in as far as i can and still get a ring spanner on one, resting on another and then the spanner on a big screwdriver through one of the bolt holes that the big bolts that hold the box to engine go through - that seemed pretty stout but leaning on the breaker bar to undo the bolt and its just bent the bolts at flywheel end, i could keep going but I'm scared the bolts will shear off in the crank and cause an absolute nightmare...

Had to come in to write a work email so thought i'd ask if anyone had this issue, got any suggestions other than bolt the flywheel and box on...? I'm not even sure that would help much without it all being in the car anyway. I can't think of another way other than what I've been doing but i really really really don't want to snap the bolt in the crank and have to try get it out

 

[panda panda]

Have you sorted it?

I was surprised at how cheap engine stands were when I was looking!

Got a link to those birth belt covers, one of cars has a broken one.

 

[blu73]

Yeah I know, like 35quid for a stand. Silly that I don't have one yet I have a crane that was way way more..

The belt cover was from shop4parts. What engine you wanting a cover for as they are all different sizes.

And no, not messed with it again yet. Hoping to get few hours on it tomorrow.

Received another parcel today, no pic this time but it's waterpump, crank seals, rocker cover gasket and both belts.

Think I got everything to physically put engine in now.

 

[blu73]

OK, because I am nice, I had a quick look for timing belt cover for you, I think you will want one for a 1000, wild guess granted being i know you have about half the pandas in the UK.

But this is one for a 1000 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BIRTH-Cover-timing-belt-8258-/151723358333

 

[blu73]

One uno inline filter.. this is normally pre filter on an uno turbo. Not sure what size the pipe coming out the panda tank is but this matches the inlet of my inline pump at least. Still need to buy some fuel lines suitable for injection rather than carb. Lines under the car will be metal so they will be ok but for in the engine bay and connecting the filter to the tank and pump I'm gonna need some new lines.

 

[blu73]

Few more bits done.

New rear crank seal in. Decided to leave the front in end, hopefully it won't leak but at least it's easily accessible when in car unlike rear one.
And new sump on too.


New metal water rail fitted


New waterpump in.


Cleaned the rocker cover up inside, totally forgot to take after pics but needless to say it was very grimy and now it's not. And fitted with new rocker gasket.


Seicento flywheel cleaned up and fitted. Thread lock and an actual torque wrench for these ones.


New 180mm AP clutch and pressure plate fitted. Also new thermostat swapped from the 750


And forgot pics but new timing belt fitted and the new timing belt cover is on too. Also attached drivers side engine mount to engine with a brand new mount (also filled mount with puraflex silicone).
Think that's all for today, getting pretty close to sticking the box on and putting it back in car. Prob do a bit of tidying and cleaning of the bay first though (maybe).

 

[blu73]

Another piece for the jigsaw puzzle

 

[blu73]

OK so the report today is that the gearbox is now on the engine, changed the front mount on it too (just rear one to go).

Went to stick the starter on and alas, there is like a rib on the back of the P75 block which is not present on teh 750 and the starter will not fit. Hey ho, I was a little worried about it being upto the job so that has kinda defunct that issue, new starter required - may even have one in my cento parts bin, will look before buying one.

Also stuck the alternator on and had a light bulb moment. This is a 65A one from a punto, but its from a mk2 thus if i use the matching bottom pulley the crank sensor is not aligned right and if i use a mk1 punto/cento one then the belt won't line up. Bugger, should have realised this before now. So now either I get a cento/mk1 punto one, which will be 55A or 60A depending on model iirc. Or i get the pully from one and fit to my 65A alternator, might just swap the whole alternator for ease and not worry about the extra amperage which i will prob never need.

In other news, whilst looking for stuff, found a cento +ve battery loom which will make connecting the alt and starter and engine loom up a bit quicker and easier

 

[blu73]

Right, after looking at loads of alternators I struggle to work out what this one i have is off exactly, the crank sensor is inboard and pulley has space for 2 belts. Whatever, it doesn't really matter other than I was curious. I thought it was a mk2b one but they all seem to be 70A or higher which I assume is for PAS whereas mine is 65A. Meh, it has numbers on it still so will look it up when i take it back off. Ordered another one, which i hope is gonne be the right pulley lol. Also ordered a starter.

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Chris I think there was some info about the alternator issues on Dragon Man's thread. Sorry I can do links on my "classic" phone.

 

[panda1408]

If you have a double crank pulley, you will need to remove the outer part to get enough clearance on the inner wing. I am fitting a 16v into a 4x4 currently and with the double pulley there is less than 1mm clearance.

I searched for a pulley that would fit but all of the single pulleys I found had the crank sensor ring on the outside rather than inboard so the only option is to remove the outer part of the original pulley, ideally you want to remove it with a lathe or mill but I reckon it could be done carefully with a hacksaw if needed.

I am of course assuming here that your engine is the same as the 16v I am using from a Brava, it might be different in which case forget the above!

 

[Didge3]

Not sure for definite but I think the 16v Brava engine is more similar to the engine used in mk2 Puntos rather than the mk1 8v Punto engine, not sure if that's relevant here.

 

[panda1408]

Not sure for definite but I think the 16v Brava engine is more similar to the engine used in mk2 Puntos rather than the mk1 8v Punto engine, not sure if that's relevant here.

It is, I was assuming that the 8v block will be pretty much the same as the 16v one so therefore likely the pulley situation will be the same.

However saying this a Panda starter fits without issue with the engine I am using, so there must be some differences in the ribs and casting in the block. The original 16v starter does not fit as the bolt spacing is different.

 

[blu73]

yeah the engine has the crank sensor such that the toothed ring part needs to be on the outside of a single belt pulley - i have like 4 or 5 bottom pulleys from various puntos and centos, they all fit fine and line up with the crank sensor position correctly (still need to order a crank sensor actually).

I knida knew i should have checked the pulley alignment but it just kinda skipped my mind. I remember reading Johns thread and if i remember correctly he swapped teh pulley on the alternator for the panda one, thus using the normal v-band style belt rather than multi ribbed one. When i got this alternator I got it as a matching set from one car, just never really twigged to check the pulleys as i knew they matched each other but forgot to test alignment on the engine. Totally my fault - I pretty sure the crank pulley I Like best is off a seicento so ordered a 2nd hand seicento alternator - 60A one it is - 99% sure its got the right pulley on it but we shall see, cheap if not so no great loss, keep as spares or sell on for no profit basically.

edit: Basically the pulley and alternator thing, as far as i can tell, mk1 with power steering and bravo/a had double pulley for the power steering pulley - looking at the pulley i am assuming they had a slightly different oil pump housing meaning crank sensors sits further in cause all the pulleys i have seen on cinqs, sei, later puntos look basically same, slightly different tooth design on some. Later cars have electric PAS and seem to have 70A or higher alternators. So I'm thinking this one I have is either a mk1 punto with power steering or from a bravo/a for same reason. When you look at the alternator you can easily see the pulley sits further out than what i am used to (basically cinq/sei ones). And looking on ebay at pics a cinq/sei one looks just like a a much later punto alternator, i could have bought a newer one for not much more but i think 70-90A is prob overkill lol.

 

[blu73]

It is, I was assuming that the 8v block will be pretty much the same as the 16v one so therefore likely the pulley situation will be the same.

However saying this a Panda starter fits without issue with the engine I am using, so there must be some differences in the ribs and casting in the block. The original 16v starter does not fit as the bolt spacing is different.

Well, talking 1242 8v to 16v form a mk1, i do have some experience there.. Block externally look exactly same, head will even bolt down from one on the other, but there is a mismatched coolant channel so you can't actually run them if you were to bolt it on properly. The pulley either has to be from the right car, or one the same to line up with crank sensor - i suspect there is only really 2 types but several more part numbers.

on starter front, i thought i was being mad - persisted for a long time before I conceded it wouldn't fit. We prob started with different engines - i bet if you had a 1000 to begin with the block will be same as a punto 1242.
And my starter might not be the original too. who knows.

I'll try get a few pics of all the different parts side by side when the new bits arrive

 

[blu73]

Well the alternator arrived.. not particularly happy with state of it really, different amperage to advertise and looks like it's been sat in a hedge and bearings are knackered. Might ask for a partial refund instead of sending it back and then just swap pulleys over.

Or might swap pulleys and then send it back and request refund ?

 

[AndyReact]

why can't people just advertise what they are actually selling?!

keep the updates coming!

 

[blu73]

OK change of plan, my mates mk2 punto 1.2 8v decided its had enough had enough of life and commited suicide. So been over there today and stole a few bits, crank sensor, some bits of pipe and its alternator, which is a 70A and from looking at it has the right pulley and works and doesn't sound like its filled with gravel when you turn it

So I will bolt that on 2moro and check alignment is right and then will send this silly ebay alternator back for a refund.

edit: In other news, I was rummaging in the garage for scrap metal yesterday (my friend/neighbour has a mx5 going to scrap so chucking loads of old crap parts i have lying about in it) and i came across a bit of tinware, the piece that goes between the gearbox and block which the starter goes though and it covers the flywheel at the front of the block. Thoguht to myself, mmmmm didn't know i had one of them spare, look at engine...... bugger. So will have to unbolt the box and slide that in and bolt it back together, hassles!

 

[blu73]

So been a while, no huge updates i'm afraid. But I can report that I sent the silly fubar alternator back and got a full refund, didn't even have to pay to send it back - select teh right options when you start a return and ebay gives you a return pre-paid label and charges seller

Got the alternator from Simons punto and also the crank sensor, they are on the engine and everything lines up - I even got a posh dampened crank pulley


I dropped box off again and put that bit of tinware on. I received a starter which i got off ebay - this time it appears the guy was a good honest chap. This is a refurbed but never fitted starter he got for his punto and then discovered it was the battery not the starter and so never actually fitted, thats the story at least. It clearly has been refurbished and not just cleaned - but i guess we will have to wait until i try start the car to see if it really works haha. No pics but you know what a starter looks like I'm sure. I would have got the one off Simons punto but I had already ordered the one off ebay and it was cheap so I'll try this one first.

Incidentally, the bolt pattern is not the same as the panda starter - 2 of the bolt holes line up but the one that would be the upper rear bolt doesn't. But at this point i don't have much choice, i stuck thread lock on the bolts and tightened them down, i'm happy it will be fine and not come loose.

Apart from them I've been a bit too busy during the week to do anything and last weekend I was at a show so nothing got done either. But I think the engine is ready