General Calling all start 'n' stop owners!

[Helen173]

It is definitely still happening. I have a new Fiat 500C and have just over 1000 miles on it. I have now collected it from the garage for the 3rd time in 10 days due to 3 engine warning lights (General warning S&S, and EOBD) coming on each time. The service manager has just told me that this is due to my "driving style"!
Having been driving for 24 years and never had any clutch problems before I am disappointed ( to say the least) to be told that the problem is not with my brand new car but with me.... that I must now adapt my driving style to suit the car and avoid holding the car on the clutch at a junction, something I admit to doing but no more than many drivers I know, especially in heavy traffic.
Interesting enough, although being told this is due to my driving, the service manager did acknowledge it would be a relatively simple fix for Fiat to make to increase the time before the sensor determines there is an engine problem.... and another point is that he said it wouldn't make any difference if I switched the S&S off as it still passes back the information on clutch use.

Posted by a very disappointed Fiat Customer

 

[zanes]

It is definitely still happening. I have a new Fiat 500C and have just over 1000 miles on it. I have now collected it from the garage for the 3rd time in 10 days due to 3 engine warning lights (General warning S&S, and EOBD) coming on each time. The service manager has just told me that this is due to my "driving style"!
Having been driving for 24 years and never had any clutch problems before I am disappointed ( to say the least) to be told that the problem is not with my brand new car but with me.... that I must now adapt my driving style to suit the car and avoid holding the car on the clutch at a junction, something I admit to doing but no more than many drivers I know, especially in heavy traffic.
Interesting enough, although being told this is due to my driving, the service manager did acknowledge it would be a relatively simple fix for Fiat to make to increase the time before the sensor determines there is an engine problem.... and another point is that he said it wouldn't make any difference if I switched the S&S off as it still passes back the information on clutch use.

Posted by a very disappointed Fiat Customer

I believe the SnS system now tolerates a driver holding it on the clutch for 10 seconds. I can't believe a clutch will last long with that sort of abuse.

 

[Helen173]

I believe the SnS system now tolerates a driver holding it on the clutch for 10 seconds. I can't believe a clutch will last long with that sort of abuse.

So maybe the fact that I haven't , until now, had any clutch issues over 24 years suggests that I don't hold the car on the clutch for 10 seconds......

 

[IainG GPS]

Our 1.4 sport had this problem last week one week after picking it up and then promptly reset it self after a week!

Its due in the Garage tomorrow so we will see what they have to say. I have heard the riding clutch excuse before so I am half expecting it.

I suspect it is a known and a common problem having discussed this with a technician with sns on his GP Evo. His advice switch it off and that is what we will continue to do.

 

[D4nny8oy]

I must now adapt my driving style to suit the car and avoid holding the car on the clutch at a junction, something I admit to doing but no more than many drivers I know, especially in heavy traffic.

Not thought of using that ratcheting lever in the middle to hold the car still, then bring the clutch to the biting point when you can see a gap appearing?

Having 20/30/40 years driving experience means little, as bad habits creep-in from day one. As has been said- Fiat have already increased the timescale, yet still some people moan it's not enough. There has to be a reasonable limit, or else a faulty clutch/neutral switch would not be detected.


If there is any doubt to the cause of the S/S failure, and you don't believe the Dealer Tech, get them to print-off and show you the detailed parameters for S/S which list everything related to it, including a counter which shows exactly why, and for what reason, S/S was unavailable and how many times it has happened. Then, if it happens again, get them to read the data again and you can see which parameter has 'clocked-up' another cause for S/S to be disabled.

For example, we had one which regularly 'failed' and we could never replicate the fault ourselves. After looking through the data before and after she had the fault re-occur, we were able to see that the cause was the customer releasing her seatbelt. After mentioning this, she recalled she always did this as she pulled into a parking space and funnily enough, that's when the lights would come on (yet before we saw the data, she insisted there was no common cause to it happening)!

 

[306maxi]

Not thought of using that ratcheting lever in the middle to hold the car still, then bring the clutch to the biting point when you can see a gap appearing?

Having 20/30/40 years driving experience means little, as bad habits creep-in from day one. As has been said- Fiat have already increased the timescale, yet still some people moan it's not enough. There has to be a reasonable limit, or else a faulty clutch/neutral switch would not be detected.

The wife does this sometimes and every time she gets a bollocking for it. If she wants to do it in her Subaru that's fine, even though the clutch will probably be twice as expensive as the Fiat's but it's the car I use to go to work every day and the car I pay for the fuel and tyres and all the maintenance on....

Some here will whine that I'm horrible or something. You can chat with someone and sort things out for free, a clutch costs money to sort and once it's ****ed it's ****ed.

 

[georgeshair]

This is possibly a silly question. I've only had the car three weeks and I'm still getting used to the different style of driving, having driven a Mini before. A couple of times, I've been stopped at traffic lights, in neutral with the handbrake on. Start n Stop works at first, but after a couple of minutes the engine comes back on without me touching anything. I only had the AC on '1' and the radio was off, so there weren't too many electrical things running. Is this normal or do I have a problem? It was more than 10 minutes into the journey, but the temperature outside was 3 or 4 degrees C, so it was fairly cold.

 

[keeforelli]

This is possibly a silly question. I've only had the car three weeks and I'm still getting used to the different style of driving, having driven a Mini before. A couple of times, I've been stopped at traffic lights, in neutral with the handbrake on. Start n Stop works at first, but after a couple of minutes the engine comes back on without me touching anything. I only had the AC on '1' and the radio was off, so there weren't too many electrical things running. Is this normal or do I have a problem? It was more than 10 minutes into the journey, but the temperature outside was 3 or 4 degrees C, so it was fairly cold.

this is entirely normal. dont worry- it operates differently at different points in a driving cycle-

i would say read the thread but im guessing you dont have a week to spare....;-)

 

[jrkitching]

This is possibly a silly question. I've only had the car three weeks and I'm still getting used to the different style of driving, having driven a Mini before. A couple of times, I've been stopped at traffic lights, in neutral with the handbrake on. Start n Stop works at first, but after a couple of minutes the engine comes back on without me touching anything. I only had the AC on '1' and the radio was off, so there weren't too many electrical things running. Is this normal or do I have a problem? It was more than 10 minutes into the journey, but the temperature outside was 3 or 4 degrees C, so it was fairly cold.

Not a silly question at all. Mine does exactly the same; it's programmed to automatically restart the engine after (from memory) 3 minutes.

Best advice I can give is to drive the car as if the system wasn't there - it really is that easy to use. There are many differing circumstances under which the engine will automatically restart and in time you will likely discover most of them

 

[Donnak72]

I have the stop and start and have had this issue for the last month. Some times the stop start works, some times it comes up with unavailable as a digital message and some times it stops but less than a minute later restarts by itself. I had the recall upgrade for the airbags done and it seemed to not work at all. I called the garage and was told that my battery was low (5 months old at the time with 2600 on clock) not high mileage but no more than my other older cars have done a year and I have not had any electrical issues with them. Should I take it in to the garage or is this just a "thing"?

 

[Ryuno]

For obvious reasons, stop n'start is always disabled whilst in reverse.

Just to clarify, should S&S always disable when you go into reverse? I.e If you start up the car and put it in reverse, should it disable then? In my car it isn't disabled when I first start the car up and start reversing.

My 1.4 500 is only about 2 months old and ever since I've got it I've been getting the dreaded engine warning light and having to take it back to the garage. I was told on Friday (the 3rd time it had been in) that the cause is me holding the car on the clutch for longer than 10 seconds.

I'm 99% sure I'm not doing this, so I'm trying to figure out why it's going wrong! All times I've got this warning light I've been reversing (where I obviously can't lift completely off the clutch or I'd have no control of the car??)

 

[jguiver]

Twice in the last few days my wife's 500 has revealed it's little foible.

Scenario is this:

Car parked on slope facing downhill
Start up, engage reverse, and a few seconds later whilst reversing uphill out of a parking space with clutch in & out several times, the ! light & S and S light come on.
Stop engine, remove key, lock car, unlock car, start engine, lights still on.
Ignore lights & carry on driving
After about 10 minutes, stop engine, restart engine and normal service is resumed, with no lights

Reading previous comments, there seems little point in going back to the dealers, but if it starts playing up on level ground we will.

I tried to replicate on level ground, reversing out of the drive & slipping the clutch a bit, but the fault did not appear.

Maybe it's to do with a combination of clutch movement & engine load?

 

[tinareet]

I seem to be having this exact problem with my Fiat 500 1.4 lounge. When I put the car in to reverse and use the clutch to move the car, and if i get close to something when I'm reversing the car beeps at me telling me to check engine, start stop unavailable and has the 3 dreaded warning lights, the car is brand new, i've had it for about 1 month now. The car still seems totally normal to drive, so many times I have continued driving with the lights on or I'm reversing into a parking space so i leave the car and it can be hours or sometimes days I come back to the car and when i turn it on the car displays the same thing, and then one day it will just dissappear. It's quite weird. and it doesn't always happen when i reverse. just when it feels like it.:bang:

 

[Ryuno]

Not good news from me on the reversing front I'm afraid. I rejected my car on Monday because the garage could not fix the problem.

Essentially I was told that I should make sure I lift the clutch all the way up when I'm moving, which is of course stupid when reversing!

I got a "check engine" & warning light whenever I reversed for more than a few seconds, and it became much more of a problem in the snow where I needed to control the car with the clutch much more during reverse.

 

[500alex]

Hi All, Interesting to know I'm not alone with S/S issues! Bought my 500 1.2 pop in October, and within the first couple of weeks the generic warning light came on with S/s unavailable. It would also re-start itself for no apparent reason between 10 second and 1 min of engaging S/S. Tried to work out if there was a pattern, butb there wasnt so took it back. Saw the salesman who sold me the car whilst they were checking it, and he mentioned riding the clutch and said that is what they would tell me. Its sounds like a common solution! HOWEVER, the service manager returned to tell me that the problem was a faulty 'Voltage Stabiliser' (Never heard of one of those before!) Anyway it ws ordered, and replaced, and so far... the problem has not returned - BUT this was only Wednesday, and I've only used S/S a few times. Maybe Its sorted... Maybe I've just jinxed it!

I've not taken the time to read all the posts... So I apoplogise if someone else has suggested this before...

All in all what a great little car!

 

[mjsmke]

I get the same message come up but only when reversing in my drive which is down a steep slope. I wouldn't want it to come on the anyway.

I did wonder why it wasnt working the other day then realised it was because the heated rear window was on.

 

[Mikey1985]

Hi all, new to this discussion. Was just thinking to myself has anyone ever had this happen while test driving a fiat with start stop? would be interesting to know how the salesman would handle it. I'm going for a test drive in one on friday but it's a busy area so don't wanna do anything silly.

 

[monkeynic110]

Well, our 500 sport is making its first trip back to the garage after 2k miles and 4 months of ownership as the three warning lights have come on as mentioned many times in this thread. A call to the garage to describe the problems resulted in them mentioned the 'riding the clutch' , which we have no real option but to do when reversing in the drive. But they came up with a new reason to me and to this thread as far as ive read.

'Leaving your hand on the gearstick once you have already changed gear' That apparentley can cause the lights to come on also, this really does sound like nonsense to me, next they will say having your hands on the steering wheel is the cause, deary me.....:bang:

 

[306maxi]

Leaving your hand on the gearstick once you have already changed gear' That apparentley can cause the lights to come on also, this really does sound like nonsense to me, next they will say having your hands on the steering wheel is the cause, deary me.....:bang:

Well there is a sensor in the gearshift assembly.... have you tried doing what they say?

 

[D4nny8oy]

'Leaving your hand on the gearstick once you have already changed gear' That apparentley can cause the lights to come on also, this really does sound like nonsense to me, next they will say having your hands on the steering wheel is the cause, deary me.....:bang:

I had this issue with a customer's 500. The issue was down to where the gearlever 'neutral' position was calibrated, and resting your hand on the lever was enough to pull it down and register that it was 'in-gear'.

Recalibrated the sensor, and the customer never reported the fault again.

All the Tech's need to do is record the 4+ pages of diagnostic data regarding the S/S system and read the counters for why it failed to stop, failed to start, etc, then attempt to recreate the fault. If they can't replicate it, return the vehicle to the customer and get them to try. If it fails again, the data can be re-read, and whichever counter has increased by 1 highlights the problem area. It really is that simple, but for some reason, many can't be arsed.

I also don't understand why it's failing in reverse as the system shouldn't be active when cold, and should also disabled during low-speed parking manoevers.