General Broken Springs POLL II

[nidza]

I was thinking about the issue. Maybe FIAT actually solved the problem with addition part? What was the idea - most of the people suffered spring failure when they were driving slowely, probably with major turning of steering wheel... I am thinking that the failure happens because of some toric forces that put pressure on the spring. There might be aproblem with a friction between spring and probably bottom plate, which touches the shock absorber and holds the car.

I've seen additional part only on the pictures and assumed this as an option. My father had that problem with our old car. The suspension was crankling when turning the steering wheel, and the issue was spring, nothing else. Lots of people report ugly sounds comming from suspension.

What if additional part actually loweres the friction, and helps spring turns freely together with the rest of the suspension?

 

[Argonought]

This subject has been covered exhaustively (use Search to find ALL threads).

The mod or 'spring catcher' as most people call it (bodge is another favourite) only catches the spring when it breaks and is therefore nothing but a safety device.

The original springs will almost certainly fail eventually but you're pretty safe in the first 3 years as corrosion needs to take place first.

Study both the polls for more info.

 

[nidza]

Yes, I've read the polls. Only there are not official data, as I recall, but only assumptions, similar to mine...

Does the cranking continues?

I made a phonecall to chief of official Fiat service here in Serbia. They had spring recall for some of the vehicles, but! Zero spring failures reported here! How is it possible? The guy also drives Stilo, and has not claimed the recall for himself? I saw his car, there are no so called 'spring catchers'.

 

[Argonought]

Does the cranking continues?

Creaking appears to have no connection with the spring break problem.

I made a phonecall to chief of official Fiat service here in Serbia. They had spring recall for some of the vehicles, but! Zero spring failures reported here! How is it possible?.

I suspect Fiat would say "That's because Serbia doesn't put salt on its roads". Maybe you do but then Fiat would say "it must be different salt"

 

[wotnowarninglight]

As I sit here, I am looking at the last 2 thirds of a turn of my broken N/S/F spring :bang: Started with a rattling from the nearside front leaving friends in Canvey Island this Monday... anyway that was 240-250 miles ago and 2 days ago. Cup mod recall finger bore the brunt of it, its slightly bent back and tyre is ok!

So I now at 36300 miles and 4 years and 2 months old... I have a broken spring. The spring mod works... but what is the latest position on spring replacement? Is it worth speaking to FIAT Customer Services?

 

[DHaste]

Took my car into Fiat in early February to have the recall notice carried out and the inspection notes said campaign XXX carried out no further work neccessary.

Low and behold yesterday the spring snapped and imbedded it's self into my tyre. Luckily at this point I was 400 yards from home and only doing 10 miles per hour as I turned a corner. 5 minutes earlier I had been on the A12 doing 70mph, with my 11 week old daughter and girlfriend in the back.

I don't like to imagine what could have happened to us all, had this happened at 70mph!!!!!

I rang D Salmon Cars of Colchester, where I have my car serviced and who carried out the recall work. They said the modification is supposed to stop this, obviously it never!! In fact if you look at the pictures I have attached it looks like the cup that fitted has snapped??

They are contacting Fiat UK to see if they will pay some of it as the car is out of warranty. I told them that Fiat UK can either pay it in full or buy the car off me. Failing that I've told them not to touch the car and I will take it to an independant garage to have it inspected and I will contact my solicitor.

I'll keep you posted!!

 

[DHaste]

Just had a phone call from D Salmon cars and we have a positive result!!

Fiat UK have agreed to pay for the lot:

New springs - both sides
New shocks
New tyre

and interestingly new spring clamping kits, not that there was anything wrong with the old ones they said?????

That said my girlfriend never wants to go in it again, so anybody want to buy a Stilo Abarth???

3dr, full tan leather, 03 plate, 50,000 miles, full fiat service history and new springs, shocks and tyres all round!!

Offers around the £4,200 mark!

 

[Argonought]

That's really bad

Puts a whole new complexion on the mod/bodge issue.

Fiat are going to need to resolve this properly before someone gets killed.

 

[wotnowarninglight]

I have today received a cheque by recorded delivery from Fiat UK for the replacement of both front springs on the JTD, for which I am grateful.

It took the firm persistance of Mrs WNWL on the phone to Fiat UK get the offer increased from payment for the broken spring to cover the replacement of both front springs, but we got the result we wanted. Now we can settle up with our flexible friends...

The covering letter with the cheque said something along the line of... we hope this restores your confidence in Fiat products. OK confidence restored, temporarily, until I saw the two posts above by DHaste - fully agree with Argo, its very bad as it was assumed that the recall mod would prevent what is shown in DH's photos.

Think its time Fiat come clean and reassure us by confirming:
1. What is wrong with the original factory fitted springs to make them snap?
2. What is different with the replacements to prevent re-occurance?
3. Why is the recall mod still required with the replacement Fiat springs fitted?
Like argo says, preferably before anybody gets killed, maimed or disfigured by driving, riding in or being present near any moving Stilo... and before owners form suicide pacts due to their cars no exsistent residual value after this one blows up in the media spotlight!

 

[jim cooper]

Spring breakage is one of the most serious faults that can afflict a car. As DHaze has shown, a tyre can be puntured at speed and lives could be lost. Fiat seem to have understood this to the extent they have issued a recall, but their remedies don't inspire confidence. You may be unaware that Skoda Favorits and Felicias suffered from a related problem (including 3 on my street alone). The front springs did not break but the lower cups on the McPherson struts that held the springs in place rusted through and could not stop the springs dropping onto the tyre. As far as I know there was no recall by the manufacturer. Is the Stilo problem a combination of broken springs and inadequate spring support plates/cups on the suspension struts? Has the problem been cured on the last spec upgrade Stilos from 2006?

 

[jim cooper]

Just checked the front spring support cups on my Nov 06 Stilo 1.4 active aircon. They are drilled with multiple holes to allow good drainage of any water that gets inside the cups (a necessity to minimise rusting). I can't detect the presence of any rubber mat; the spring seems to rest directly on the base of the metal cup. Cup itself and spring also show no sign of rust. Spring has an adhesive paper tag attached but this is too dirty for me to read what's on it.
To me this looks like a sound design which could only fail if the cup and spring metal were unusually prone to rust.
Someone once suggested to me (in relation to above mentioned related Skoda problem) that lack of a strut brace to bridge the suspension turrets could cause excessive movement of springs in cups as the body flexed, setting up electrostatic charge leading to rapid corrosion of cups. Personally I thought it was due to poor quality metal and coating of the cups. Any comments?

 

[jim cooper]

Another thought on McPherson struts. Unless they are well engineered and made out of quality materials it seems to me they are a disaster waiting to happen. All the force of the spring for the life of the car is supposed to be borne by the steel cup welded onto the lower part of the strut. This cup is usually placed concave side up, so it is a natural water trap, and in some cases the drainage holes are too few or too small to allow water to get out. Some makers have managed to invert the cup so that the upper side is convex; this sheds water more effectively but needs some way of making sure the spring doesn't slip off it (e.g. tabs on the circumference).

 

[jim cooper]

Apologies if some of the content of the above 3 posts covers old ground. Just got round to looking at the original, huge, broken spring thread.
I can definitely say that the cup design on my post-recall Stilo is different to and far more substantial than the one on cars subject to recall.

 

[Argonought]

Apologies if some of the content of the above 3 posts covers old ground. Just got round to looking at the original, huge, broken spring thread.
I can definitely say that the cup design on my post-recall Stilo is different to and far more substantial than the one on cars subject to recall.

Interesting post Jim

What we'd all like to know is if Fiat have changed their front spring supplier. It's bad enough to have them fail in the first place but to expect the replacements to fail again within something like 4 years (or maybe less) takes the biscuit

Even with your improved strut design (safer) does it follow your springs wont fail like the early ones have :chin: Seems incredible that Fiat would continue to fit suspect springs but no one seems to have any definite facts to prove otherwize :bang:

One thing we do seem to know is that fitting after market springs resolves the issue completely

If only Fiat would find a good supplier and replace the springs under a recall then we'd all be a lot happier (although it's a bit late in the day now ).

 

[wotnowarninglight]

Jim, answer to Favorit / Felicia spring cups was check for drainage holes in bottom spring cup, if none present add some (2 as per later type struts) then clean it up and lightly grease job done 94-04 Owned 1 Felicia, 3 Favorits & 1 Estelle

Re. Stilo, would be further re-assured by official (read Fiat) confirmation of what was wrong with the original springs and how the new springs differ. As I cover 25Kish a year I tend to end up with insurance companies that are not mod. friendly/compatible i.e. lowering springs Otherwise would have taken this option in preference to more OEM springs...

 

[jim cooper]

Jim, answer to Favorit / Felicia spring cups was check for drainage holes in bottom spring cup, if none present add some (2 as per later type struts) then clean it up and lightly grease job done 94-04 Owned 1 Felicia, 3 Favorits & 1 Estelle

Re. Stilo, would be further re-assured by official (read Fiat) confirmation of what was wrong with the original springs and how the new springs differ. As I cover 25Kish a year I tend to end up with insurance companies that are not mod. friendly/compatible i.e. lowering springs Otherwise would have taken this option in preference to more OEM springs...

Re Skoda. Forgot to mention Skodas suffered this problem long after the VW takeover. I also had an Estelle (130L) and its front struts were rock solid.

Re Stilo. Yes, this is still a crucial issue; the new cups look fine but we would need to know whether the spring spec/supplier was changed to one that did not snap. Looking at some of the pics from older thread it seems clear the spring could break even though it was not rusty.

 

[Argonought]

Looking at some of the pics from older thread it seems clear the spring could break even though it was not rusty.

Perhaps you've seen something I've missed but personally I like to see some evidence (it does have serious implications) :bang:

 

[jim cooper]

Perhaps you've seen something I've missed but personally I like to see some evidence (it does have serious implications) :bang:

I thought the DHaste pics showed a fairly clean spring but on second look they could have been rusty enough to break. Examples given of springs breaking a couple of coils up would be interesting to see. I don't know enough about spring manufacture and materials to make a worthwhile comment but as a driver (or passenger!) I would be really concerned if a spring could break under normal driving conditions when it showed no sign of rust.

 

[Argonought]

It only takes a pin-prick of corrosion to penetrate the protective sheath and I think this may have fooled a few people who state their springs showed no signs of corrosion.

All the same, if anyone can provide evidence to the contrary then a lot of people on here would be very interested to see it.

If only Fiat would declare they're now supplying/fitting springs that don't break then this whole discussion would be academic :bang:

 

[j0nny]

the broken springs has claimed another victim, lol
no idea how the broke but front drivers side was away with it, so i replaced them all with 35mm Lowering springs and going to get it realigned tomorrow, looks nicer on the floor