Boosting MPG with hydrogen (HHO) cell

[sludgeguts]

Basically, chuck a few volts through some distilled water with a few teaspoons of bicarb added and you get instant hydrogen production.
This is then piped to your air intake where the gases replace some/most/all? of the air being drawn into the carb/engine.

There are claims of up to 70% increase in MPG.

As the 'fuel cell' is wired through the ignition, the gas is only generated when the engine is running (ignition on).

I know people are skeptical about whether you can produce enough hydrogen to completely power the car but what about claims that you can produce enough to simply boost mpg from existing fuel?

Obviously there will be a small increase in consumption to account for the electricity used to power the cell but then the boost given more than makes up for this?

Any thoughts?

 

[dronenrs]

as we all know though hydrogen is a highly volatile gas to work with if any thing goes wrong it could go bang in true style

 

[sludgeguts]

On the other hand, when the alternator is charging the battery, volatile gases are being produced.

 

[dronenrs]

true of course we all know cars are dangerous places to work on i think this would end up the same way that people add LPG tanks to cars

 

[Shadeyman]

The gas produced is called "Hydroxy gas" and its illegal in the US due to the way road tax is collected, tax on fuel. No petrol/diesel no road tax.

Want to know all there is about it?

Check this site out:
http://www.waterpoweredcar.com

 

[David C]

The term "up to" is widely used with this sort of thing.
Remember that getting an extra 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000001% MPG is still in the "up to 70%" range!!

 

[sludgeguts]

The term "up to" is widely used with this sort of thing.
Remember that getting an extra 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000001% MPG is still in the "up to 70%" range!!

But there are also many claiming 25% +
As I already get 450 miles to a 10 gallon fill, the prospect of getting an additional 100+ miles for the sake of a handful of bicarb (or some other reasonably priced chemical) is very enticing.

BTW thanks for the link shadey.

 

[dronenrs]

i would love to see proof of the MPG figures. thing is thatll be as rare as hens teeth as i doubt many people do it/ do it and dont blow themselves into tiny bits

 

[sludgeguts]

There's loads of vids on youtube where people have made these cells and attached them to their cars.
Trouble is, for each site extolling the virtues, there's a site claiming the tech doesn't work (they haven't tried it but like to cite laws of thermodynamics & such like).
Yet I can clearly remember our ageing physics teacher giving us jamjars and getting us to experiment with a couple of large nails as electrodes. The gas we collected from just a small battery was flammable and constant.

 

[Focus Owner]

we always had trouble in sience. never worked
i think they tried too much to show us rather than burn it

 

[Percyhahn]

i can see this becoming another biodiesel/veg oil will it/wont it work argument, as that to has just as many no's as yes's. until someone on here does it, i suppose we just dont know.

of the people that claim improved mpgs, was any of them fiats? if so what sort?

 

[sludgeguts]

I blend used veg oil with diesel, currently 1 gallon veg to 4 of diesel.
Am tempted to make biodiesel but wonder about the value of adding certain chemicals to the mix (is it any wonder some seals perish?).
I'm currently on 45mpg around town, not really noticed any drop in performance - certainly still flies along the road when I want it to & still quick off the mark as well.
I've just done a run down to the south coast, so far, 350 miles and just under half a tank left - shame I haven't the time to run it forever to see what I could get on a run.

As to hydrogen boosting mpg, I cannot see why an improvement somewhere cannot be had, after all, you are replacing air with hydrogen and oxygen - 2 elements in air but at more concentrated levels, making the mix far more prone to explode.
Only thing is, would the more concentrated hydrogen & oxygen gases be prone to detonating slightly earlier in the cycle - would they be more susceptible to the heat of compression?

 

[Percyhahn]

I blend used veg oil with diesel, currently 1 gallon veg to 4 of diesel.
Am tempted to make biodiesel but wonder about the value of adding certain chemicals to the mix (is it any wonder some seals perish?).
I'm currently on 45mpg around town, not really noticed any drop in performance - certainly still flies along the road when I want it to & still quick off the mark as well.
I've just done a run down to the south coast, so far, 350 miles and just under half a tank left - shame I haven't the time to run it forever to see what I could get on a run.

As to hydrogen boosting mpg, I cannot see why an improvement somewhere cannot be had, after all, you are replacing air with hydrogen and oxygen - 2 elements in air but at more concentrated levels, making the mix far more prone to explode.
Only thing is, would the more concentrated hydrogen & oxygen gases be prone to detonating slightly earlier in the cycle - would they be more susceptible to the heat of compression?

how long have you blended veg oil and diesel for? have you got a common rail diesel? im tempted to do it as i do 120miles a day, and it would save me a few pounds, but have heard veg oil can ruin common rails, so not brave enough to do it yet, until i get confirmation it doesn't.

 

[sludgeguts]

how long have you blended veg oil and diesel for? have you got a common rail diesel? im tempted to do it as i do 120miles a day, and it would save me a few pounds, but have heard veg oil can ruin common rails, so not brave enough to do it yet, until i get confirmation it doesn't.

Tentatively, July 2008...
https://www.fiatforum.com/doblo/151720-alternative-fuels.html
When I first started the blending process.

I manage to get my hands on 20litres used now and then so filter the muck & blend 1:4.
I always make sure I first fill the tank with diesel, run it for 90 miles then add 2 gallons of veg - If I can get this new shell stuff for the same price as anywhere else then I like to use that - just to give the engine a better chance - you never know.

 

[sludgeguts]

I reckon the problems are caused through people processing the heck out of veg oil - turning it into biodiesel.
The process seems to involve filtering out the muck but then adding sodium hydroxide - a lovely potent drain cleaner to methanol, warming the oil and adding the sodium/meth mix into the warm oil.
this splits the glycerine which is removed from the bottom.
The oil is then washed & an airstone is added to encourage the water to draw any remaining soaps out of the bio.
Now I might be wrong but glycerine & soaps all sounds a bit 'lubey' to me, so keeping these things in the mix would help the internals stay lubed up?
In any case, why mess about getting them out when they are simply burnt away in the pots?

I simply warm the oil to encourage it through a 75 micron filter. I then have a 1 micron sock filter in a spin dryer (too tight to buy a proper centrifuge) which takes out any finer muck.
I'm told a fuel filter is around 5 - 10 microns so if anything can get through 1 micron filter I don't think it can harm the engine.
Once it's gone through that, I add 3% petrol to 'thin' the oil.
There are websites saying to use thinners etc but they aren't taxed for fuel use - also, petrol is cheaper per litre than thinners/white spirit.
I have some 20litre containers which originally contained fresh engine oil - whatever was left in them also went into the mix.

My exhaust doesn't stink of chips but then again, it doesn't stink of normal diesel fumes either.
The engine runs perfectly, it is happy to sit at 70 all day with a car full of people/luggage etc & it also seems to idle better - although as the mornings get colder, the idle can be a tad lumpy - but no worse than it ever was.
As we come into autumn and the frost starts, I'll be dropping the ratio.
summer mix is 10 litres veg added to approx 35 litres diesel.
As I said earlier, I fill up with diesel, generally 45 litres. I get 45mpg so drive 90 miles then add 10 litres veg.
With frosty/cold mornings I will fill up with diesel, drive 45 - 50 miles and add 5 litres veg and when we expect the coldest weather, I only add 5 litres veg every 2nd fill.
I always like to use the better quality diesels (at the moment I plump for the shell which supposedly gets you an extra litre's worth of motoring per tank - presumably down to additives?) I figure it all helps along the way.

So, basically, I've been on used veg oil for about a year and on a blend with fresh oil since July 2008. I'll only use used veg if I can get it free or considerably cheaper than fresh.

 

[Percyhahn]

cheers for that il have a try i think, would save me alot in the long run

 

[mountaingoat]

Hello all,

Just fitted 2 hydrogen cells to my Stilo multiwagon jtd... First test to town and back (around 6 miles) Returned 65mpg. Will to testing to London tomorrow (100 miles).

More to come..

 

[richydraper]

...Now I might be wrong but glycerine & soaps all sounds a bit 'lubey' to me, so keeping these things in the mix would help the internals stay lubed up?
In any case, why mess about getting them out when they are simply burnt away in the pots?...

glycerine is a by-product of soap making and you wouldnt really want either in your cylinders. glycerine is used as a sugar replacement in a whole host of foods and i dread to think what would happen if it gummed up . It's also hygroscopic meaning it holds water... not good in a cylinder.

and id be kinda worried of either glycerine or soaps washing the bores increasing the chances of piston rings picking up... theres obviously a reason why its being filtered out and im sure someone with a better idea of how it work would be able to elaborate!

 

[dave]

Hello all,

Just fitted 2 hydrogen cells to my Stilo multiwagon jtd... First test to town and back (around 6 miles) Returned 65mpg. Will to testing to London tomorrow (100 miles).

More to come..

hi, would like to see more details photos and so on please

 

[sludgeguts]

hi, would like to see more details photos and so on please

Indeed. the only drawback I can think of is that the computer will need to know that the air coming in now contains hydrogen and much more oxygen than it did before (air is 20% oxygen, 78% nitrogen some carbon dioxide, & a few other bits and pieces).