Boosting MPG with hydrogen (HHO) cell

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Boosting MPG with hydrogen (HHO) cell

:ROFLMAO:

A 6 feet long spirit level would give the impression the surface of the earth was flat but a 600 mile long level would rock too and fro on the curvature of the earth.

Putting it in the van ready for the next job might be difficult too .. ;)

A spirit level less than 3 miles long would suffice - I think the horizon is about 3 miles away if eye level is 6', so less if eye level was at the shoreline.

People also believed that the earth was the centre of the universe & everything revolved around it.

Millions of people believe in God - As far as I'm aware, there is no scientific proof.
Just because science hasn't got the answer yet, doesn't make something 'snake oil'.
 
I always thought it was 30 miles :confused: :eek:

Distance to the horizon from an observer close to the Earth's surface is about[5]

where d is in kilometres and h is height above sea level in metres.
Examples:
For an observer standing on the ground with h = 1.70 metres (5 ft 7 in) (average eye-level height), the horizon is at a distance of 5.0 kilometres (3.1 mi).
For an observer standing on a hill or tower of 100 metres (330 ft) in height, the horizon is at a distance of 39 kilometres (24 mi).
For an observer standing at the top of the Burj Khalifa (828 metres (2,717 ft) in height), the horizon is at a distance of 111 kilometres (69 mi).
With d in miles[6] and h in feet,

Examples, assuming no refraction:
For an observer on the ground with eye level at h = 5 ft 7 in (5.583 ft), the horizon is at a distance of 2.9 miles (4.7 km).
For an observer standing on a hill or tower 100 feet (30 m) in height, the horizon is at a distance of 12.2 miles (19.6 km).
For an observer on the summit of Aconcagua (22,841 feet (6,962 m) in height), the sea-level horizon to the west is at a distance of 184 miles (296 km).

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon[/ame]
 
Just because science hasn't got the answer yet, doesn't make something 'snake oil'.

True, the fact there's scientific fact going against it does make it snake oil. If some cheap eBay piece of tat improved MPG everyone would have one.

Hydrogen in one way or another is the fuel of the future. Electric cars with heavy environmently unfriendly batteries are a short term leap frog.
 
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Just because science hasn't got the answer yet, doesn't make something 'snake oil'.


Science has got the answer on this one, time and time again scientists disprove it, once such scientific example http://www.aardvark.co.nz/hho_fraud.shtml
its only people who have either paid out, who will viciously claim it increases MPG, those that sell the systems, and those that like playing with these things in their garage that actually believe they work.

if they were so good they would come fitted as standard to all new cars and we would all be rushing out to buy them, yet only one person in this thread claims to have one and they are a new member who made one post and hasn't been back since, i also think its safe to discount Dave's 'I once talked to a bloke'
 
Science has got the answer on this one, time and time again scientists disprove it, once such scientific example http://www.aardvark.co.nz/hho_fraud.shtml
its only people who have either paid out, who will viciously claim it increases MPG, those that sell the systems, and those that like playing with these things in their garage that actually believe they work.

if they were so good they would come fitted as standard to all new cars and we would all be rushing out to buy them, yet only one person in this thread claims to have one and they are a new member who made one post and hasn't been back since, i also think its safe to discount Dave's 'I once talked to a bloke'

It doesn't bother me in the slightest to say that I have bought into something and it turned out to be crap.
The other day my dentist was laughing because I told him I had been using magnets to ease the pain of toothache. Seems he'd been lead to believe that there was no scientific evidence that magnets worked as a method of pain relief - I guess it's hard to measure pain, which explains why there are so many malingerers with bad backs or whiplash injuries. As if I care, all I know is that my magnets reduced the toothache to a tolerable level so I could sleep.
As for magnets on car fuel lines being hokum - if that's what people choose to believe, that's their choice, but I'll be keeping my magnets firmly attached as I have had tangible results for the past 20 years.
 
Science has got the answer on this one, time and time again scientists disprove it, once such scientific example http://www.aardvark.co.nz/hho_fraud.shtml
its only people who have either paid out, who will viciously claim it increases MPG, those that sell the systems, and those that like playing with these things in their garage that actually believe they work.

Your example seems to use a low tech approach, for example it states a standard vehicle alternator is used, every viable example I've read about requires an uprated alternator, similar to the high efficiency/output ones they fit to ambulances, some have actually used alternators from ambulances.

if they were so good they would come fitted as standard to all new cars and we would all be rushing out to buy them, yet only one person in this thread claims to have one and they are a new member who made one post and hasn't been back since, i also think its safe to discount Dave's 'I once talked to a bloke'

Even if the technology was available today there is no way the large oil companies would allow them on to the open market untill their oil resources were close to being depleted, far too much money involved for that to happen.

I'm not saying your wrong, it may well be impossible at the moment but IMO if someone is serious about proving or disproving this they should aproach it with an open mind and at least use the very best of equipment and science fact, not results published on youtube.
 
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As for magnets on car fuel lines being hokum - if that's what people choose to believe, that's their choice, but I'll be keeping my magnets firmly attached as I have had tangible results for the past 20 years.

in which case I challenge you to take the magnets off and record the difference it makes to your fuel economy over an extended period of time.

This isn't based on people's belief, it's based on scientific evidence. Where as you have a belief that it works based on no scientific evidence. Just like their is no scientific evidence that magnets have any effect on pain or the perception of pain, there is plenty of evidence that magnets have a great placebo effect on pain in many different studies.

You make a great point however, if you believe something works then you are inevitably going to assume it does work, even if it doesn't.
 
in which case I challenge you to take the magnets off and record the difference it makes to your fuel economy over an extended period of time.

This isn't based on people's belief, it's based on scientific evidence. Where as you have a belief that it works based on no scientific evidence. Just like their is no scientific evidence that magnets have any effect on pain or the perception of pain, there is plenty of evidence that magnets have a great placebo effect on pain in many different studies.

You make a great point however, if you believe something works then you are inevitably going to assume it does work, even if it doesn't.

I've already done this on a much earlier thread - hence the fuelly tag. With the magnets on I was averaging about 45mpg - all town driving, I accepted the challenge and removed the magnets & my mpg dropped.
I believe there was also an accusation of the placebo effect - of me adjusting my driving style to get higher mpg results - yeah, right. I've tried the sedate stuff & can hit high 40s - if I stick to driving like it's a chauffer driven roller, 0 - 30 in forever, hit highest gear as soon as possible without labouring the engine, constanlty monitoring tyre pressures, ditching excess weight in the car (including fuel - never more than half a tank) - but I'd rather keep my usual style and get 45 than 48/49mpg and have everyone else abusing me
 
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Your example seems to use a low tech approach, for example it states a standard vehicle alternator is used, every viable example I've read about requires an uprated alternator, similar to the high efficiency/output ones they fit to ambulances, some have actually used alternators from ambulances.

What good is an uprated alternator going to do? Bigger armature needs more energy to turn, but if you have a standard alternator and the car battery isn't running flat mid journey then you have enough power from the alternator to charge the battery and power your hydrogen generator,

If your argument on the oil companies were true then we wouldn't have all electric cars and hybrids flooding the market like we do.
 
What good is an uprated alternator going to do?

The efficiency of the alternator has a huge impact on the amount of HHO that can be produced, I would of thought that was obvious.

Bigger armature needs more energy to turn, but if you have a standard alternator and the car battery isn't running flat mid journey then you have enough power from the alternator to charge the battery and power your hydrogen generator,

Efficiency in this case is not size related. The uprated alternators used on ambulances are about the same size as the standard alternator, wouldn't fit if they weren't, but its able to produce far more power than the standard one. It produces more than enough to run the engine and all the equipment in the back of the ambulance, produces 6 times more power than standard if I remember correctly.

If your argument on the oil companies were true then we wouldn't have all electric cars and hybrids flooding the market like we do.

If you really think large oil and car companies would allow a device to flood the world markets that effectively turned their multi-billion pound industries into expensive scrap you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

As I've already said:

if someone is serious about proving or disproving this they should aproach it with an open mind and at least use the very best of equipment and science fact, not results published on youtube.

Custom built equipment is required for this, not washing up liquid bottles, youtube and an old mondeo alternator.
 
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in which case I challenge you to take the magnets off and record the difference it makes to your fuel economy over an extended period of time.
.

I looked at my fuelly figures. I reckoned I was getting mid 40s, removed the magnets (as per the original challenge) and my fuelly account showed I was getting high 30s/low 40s (between 38 and 41mpg).
With the magnets back on, my fuelly account showed I was getting 45mpg.

I'd rather keep the placebo & get 45 than take them off & get 40!
 
I looked at my fuelly figures. I reckoned I was getting mid 40s, removed the magnets (as per the original challenge) and my fuelly account showed I was getting high 30s/low 40s

this would only be scientifically accurate if you as the driver had no idea if the magnets were in place or not.
and it was conducted over many different cars driven by many different people.

when i bought my 1.3mjt i had just sold a 2litre Saab. for the first year or so in my punto the fuel economy was fantastic usually about 60+mpg but this was because i was being extra careful because i know i could get even more economy if i was careful. fast forwards 4 years and i've slipped back into driving like i drove my Saab, more sloppy and heavy footed its dropped to about 55mpg on average. if i go back to driving carefully, like when money is tight, i can easily get back my 60+mpg,

without removing your subconscious actions from an experiment you're never going to find the truth but if you believe driving round with magnets clamped to your fuel line, with its non magnetic fuel flowing though it, then so be it. but like HHO generators and vortex devices, magnets and a whole list of other rubbish, if these things work then why are they not fitted to production cars?

Simple because they don't work. and they are perpetuated by those who put faith in them, without scientific evidence or knowledge.
 
The efficiency of the alternator has a huge impact on the amount of HHO that can be produced, I would of thought that was obvious.

Efficiency in this case is not size related. The uprated alternators used on ambulances are about the same size as the standard alternator, wouldn't fit if they weren't, but its able to produce far more power than the standard one. It produces more than enough to run the engine and all the equipment in the back of the ambulance, produces 6 times more power than standard if I remember correctly.

Actually higher output doesn't mean more efficient, it means more turns of copper wire, which means more dead weight to carry and more rotational weight to turn. a car alternator like on most fiats is about 65/70amps all the ambulances round here are mercedes sprinters a low end standard sprinter van has a 90amp alternator, an ambulance probably uses the top end 220amp alternator in truth this is only needed to keep the huge leisure batteries topped up to power the tail lift and rear cabin lights, and charge a couple of pieces of equipment the heating is done off a fuel burning heater and and engine block heater powered off the mains. There really isn't a lot else in there, our critical care paramedics car carries a fluid warming cabinet thats the only additional thing.
yet a HHO generator only needs a few amps maybe 3-4amps for the big fuel cell you pictured. (in perspective turning your lights on draws more current) you would need a lot of them in a car to warrant a £500 200+amp alternator?

If you really think large oil and car companies would allow a device to flood the world markets that effectively turned their multi-billion pound industries into expensive scrap you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Oil companies have already had to stand by and watch the influx of hybrid cars, and all electric cars. along with biodiesel and other forms of alternative energy which does little to benefit them.
additionally car companies have spent millions on developing hydrogen powered cars and the best they've come up with use hydrogen powered cells to produce electricity, and power electric motors, to get anything close to viable as an alternative to fossil fuel. these are still stupidly heavy and inefficient. and more importantly horrifically expensive.

you don't believe that the millions that people like BMW, Audi, Fiat, Ford, Mercedes, Volvo etc; spend every year on alternative fuels research and development, this technology hasn't been tested? with properly developed equipment.

there is no denying an engine can be run on hydrogen, the problems come with getting it to run properly and not damage an engine. while still carrying enough to have a decent range. You will never get something for nothing, so you will never see an improvement in fuel economy by taking power away from the driven wheels of a car.
 
in which case I challenge you to take the magnets off and record the difference it makes to your fuel economy over an extended period of time. .

this would only be scientifically accurate if you as the driver had no idea if the magnets were in place or not.
and it was conducted over many different cars driven by many different people.

without removing your subconscious actions from an experiment you're never going to find the truth


So, on the one hand, you want me to remove the magnets to see if there is a difference yet on the other hand, you say there WILL be a difference because my subconscious is making the effort on my behalf.

in which case, the magnets DO work - they might not EFFECT the fuel (according to many) but they AFFECT my subconscious.
Either way, I'm getting a positive result for just a few quid.(y)
 
so i don't need no magnets. all i have to do is think positive that i will have more mpg then i will get more mpg :cool: thanks Andy thats going to save me a fortune

As sarcastic as you are trying to be (and failing) this is true, if I fitted a fake HHO generator to your car and told you it was going to work, and increase your mpg I guarantee your fuel economy would improve. (subconscious influence is again a well documented Science) why do you think in randomised controlled drug trials they use placebos and the subjects who use those placebos inevitably show improvement as well?

If you don't want to believe in science and the laws of physics fine, go spend your money and wreck your engines, hopefully though others with a modicum of common sense will see this thread and not waste their money on a load of junk.

I think the key point here is that no one who is arguing the benefits of HHO generators here has any actual hands on experience, I actually respect Shadeyman for saying 'who knows what might happen in the future' and that it needs properly testing with proper equipment. Other than than that it's a lot of blind faith without knowledge or reason.

With magnets of fuel lines well if they work for you then super it is your belief and not any action of science that causes the results you see, but the only cost is a couple of quid and a tie wrap.
Spending hundreds on a HHO generator is a different matter though. And the more people who aviod getting sucked in by these scams the better
 
If magnets and all this other borlocks actually worked do you not think that some manufacturer like Fiat wouldn't incorporate it into production and absolutely kill the competition on fuel economy?
 
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