Technical bloomfieldliam's brake overhaul

[Liam]

Hi all,

This week I am replacing the rear brakes, fitting Punto GT stoppers on the front and upgrading to Goodridge hoses (Council Zinc Ends though LOL).

Anyhows, not much in the way of pics cos everyone has seen rear and fronts but I thought I would post up a few of my findings as I go along.

So I put the car on four axle stands and took off the wheels and stripped most of the old brakes off, my fronts were dead completely, discs near anorexic and starting to chew up my pads.

Rears were rusty, one backplate had a hole in it so the inside was filthy, one of the friction materials had came away from the shoe and the pins were all crusty plus the levers were seized solid.

I left the back plates on as I am going to be removing all the hoses and wondered about the best way to drain the tank plus I have been giving all the brake unions and other suspect bolts a good soaking with Wynns Super Rust Penetrator was looking for PlusGAS but couldn't find any.

So as it stands it is awaing the hoses and backplates being removed before I fit up the new stuff but this might have to wait a couple of days cos

1. My GT calipers are still needing brought up to scratch/painted.

2. My wheel locating pins shearer off in the front OS hub so I am still wondering what to do about that.

Not a great deal to report about the job aside from the hadbrake levers free up quite easily, everything inside the drums looking a hundred years old and off topic but when replacing a fuel filter don't tighten the clips with a 7mm socket cos the filter is soft metal and you will snap the little end off:bang:

More tomorrow.

Liam

 

[Liam]

Well day too was eventful alright!

Got the front flexi hoses off very easily and let the fluid drain out, went to the rears and started on the pipes and hoses there.

First bit of trouble was a seized union behind the drivers side wheel cylinder, I broke the pipe removing it but it's short and a local place will make me one up no probs (this was an original I think) so after that I left the rear flexis loose and removed the old backplates and cleaned up the stub axles.

Now I tried at great lenght to access the union to remove the rear flexis but no success

cue this thread

https://www.fiatforum.com/cinq-sei-technical/62386-how-do-you-get-rear-flexy-hoses-off.html

So fuel tank off and pipes off, one was seized so needed a pair of Vise grips using as I rounded the union previously, Haynes tell you to replace the unions when this course of action is used but I just screwed the new braided hoses on as the pipe is one piece all the way to the master cylinder.

I then fitted all the braided hoses all round and put in the spring clips.

Back into the breach tomorrow.

Liam

 

[arc]

you are actually fitting the stainless rear hoses too I would've left it, totally couldnt be arsed to remove the fuel tank!

 

[custard]

though just to add that once you can access,if you have a brake flaring tool you can cut the pipe and 'just' add in a saction though from fixits experience the steel piping is tough to flare.
incidently liam the 2 rear brake lines terminate just forward of the fuel filter

 

[Liam]

Ah, didn't look there cheers Custard.

Yes Arc all the lines are on, although I won't be the first to have lines all round (DJ Bucho and MDB have but thats' all i can remember)

So today was a mixed bag, got myself a plumber blowtorch to remove a stud that snapped when removing the fuel tank, heated the are for a song length according to the radio, put on the Vise grips and off it came, well chuffed!

Got a new section made up of trailing arm brake pipe for nowt which was also good!

Decided to get the fuel tank in then disaster, in my haste to fit it quickly I broke the evaparation valve (little thing that plugs in the tank) fcuk! Found that it looks like £20 but I'll ring around a few scrappies tomorrow.

So stopped doing that and I fitted all the back plates, cylinders, shoes, springs etc

The springs are a bitch, I put on the cylinder then the handbrake lever, hook on the bottom spring, toughest one, then lever on the shoes, fiddly and you won't get it first time but moving the bottom spring with the shoes in place would be ny impossible without special tools or 60lb sea fishing reel!

I also connected up one side of the brake pipe, I'll do the other side later.

Success and failure all in one day, typical my luck.

Liam

 

[woj]

The springs are a bitch, I put on the cylinder then the handbrake lever, hook on the bottom spring, toughest one, then lever on the shoes, fiddly and you won't get it first time but moving the bottom spring with the shoes in place would be ny impossible without special tools or 60lb sea fishing reel!

It's perfectly possible, I gave a hint about this here:

https://www.fiatforum.com/cinq-sei-technical/58679-new-brakes.html

Cheers,

Woj

 

[Liam]

I forgot about that Woj, that is likely something like that in the rear brake service tools that garages have.

So today I didn't do too much, started to get my GT calipers ready for painting so I started to remove as much rust and paint from them as possible.

A drill with some rough grinding stone bits and a copper brush set is perfect IMO, the stone bits get off the heavy stuff and the copper brushes are ideal for the more delicate bits. I was doing this out the back garden in the sun but then it started thunder and lightening so I went in the garage started to fit my last bit of solid brake pipe but water was creeping in the door and I was getting soaking so called it quits for today.

I'll get the pipe fitted and the drums and calipers looking spiffy and painted tomorrow.

Oh and top tip, suspected seized bleed screw? No problem, big pair of vise grips, get a good grip on it, one of those all your strength jobs! LOL and then turn no probs.

To apply heat is a big NO NO.

Liam

 

[woj]

I forgot about that Woj, that is likely something like that in the rear brake service tools that garages have.

They actually use some sort of a spring stretcher, an opposite of pliers or something like this. I've never seen it, but I know it exists (and costs too).

Oh and top tip, suspected seized bleed screw? No problem, big pair of vise grips, get a good grip on it, one of those all your strength jobs! LOL and then turn no probs.

To apply heat is a big NO NO.

I don't know about heat, but putting heavy force on the bleeder can give you serious problems too. Together with my bro, we broke the tip off his bleeder once. Long story short we ended up with getting (that was a bitch, because the sort he has fitted in his fiat 126 is no longer made) and fitting a new calliper.

/Woj

 

[Liam]

Wow, not had much time to spend on this as of late but I forced myself in the garage last night and got the fuel tank in and got the new solid brake pipe on.

Tonight I am going to fit the front calipers, replace a few trim parts and tidy up some misc jobs that I started but never finished then I will bleed the system @ the weekend.

After that I can drop the car down and get the front hub carrier fixed then it's Cinq time again and thank god cos this Cor*a C is doing my head in!

Liam

 

[Liam]

OK, well last time I worked on it I hardly done anything and ended up tidying up the garage cos my stuff was everywhere.

Anyway, I've got the front discs, calipers, spacers and stud conversion on but there is a slight hiccup, one of the studs is fubared, thread is squint so it's no use and one of the wheel nuts is now screwed cos I tried to force it on.

I'll see how rallydesigns customer service is tomorrow morning.

So I went to the rear, hubs on, brakes shoes etc all been waiting for ages, I go to place on the drums and they won't slip over, everything was on right as it only really goes one way so I tried the old drum and it still wouldn't fit and then I dug out the old shoes and put them on and the drum went on as it should, compared the shoes and there is a slight difference meaning they stick out further.

Have contacted shop4parts about this.

Getting pissed off now as it is just itching to go and these silly snags are holding me up.

Oh and one final thing tonight, when using the Sei spacers the wheel or disc locating screw isn't long enough so you need to get longer bolts but it is a common thread so your local garage should stock them, the ones I got were a bit long but Mr Grinder seen to that!

Come to think of it, Mr Grinder might sort out my shoe problem if I get no joy with S4P.

Liam

 

[GhostWKD]

S4P sent me wrong shoes also, well right shoes just a manufacturing fault in 1 of them, sent them pics and they replaced for free

 

[J333EVO]

Oh and one final thing tonight, when using the Sei spacers the wheel or disc locating screw isn't long enough so you need to get longer bolts but it is a common thread so your local garage should stock them, the ones I got were a bit long but Mr Grinder seen to that!

Come to think of it, Mr Grinder might sort out my shoe problem if I get no joy with S4P.

Liam

You don't need wheel locating bolts when using studs, that must be obvious to you Liam, the studs locate the wheels, when fitted by Fiat on the Sei they just have disc retaining bolts, but TBH with the nature of the Fiat supplied studs, they are not needed as the studs hold the disc in place.

I have found Rally Design customer service to be excellent, when i ordered my studs/nuts i for some reason placed an order for 8*38mm ones for rear wheels and 1*48mm one for front wheels in stead of 8, and then they sent the wrong pitch nuts, so when i phoned they said, we'll replace all the nuts as its our fault and give you the studs you under ordered for free if you send the wrong nuts back.

Then last week on another order i didn't receive a 32mm alloy pipe joiner, i received a 16mm joiner not ordered but cam in handy anyway they said we'll send it out today 1st class and keep the 16mm one.

 

[Liam]

Mine is the part that rests on the bottom of the back plate is too wide so the shoes stick out at the bottom and the drum won't go.

Liam

 

[Hellcat]

I thought someone else had problems with S4P drum shoes..

Sounds like some progress coming on there Liam, even if it isn't all going to plan. Jogs me that I need to do mine.

 

[Liam]

You don't need wheel locating bolts when using studs, that must be obvious to you Liam, the studs locate the wheels, when fitted by Fiat on the Sei they just have disc retaining bolts, but TBH with the nature of the Fiat supplied studs, they are not needed as the studs hold the disc in place.

I've just got normal studs without the cool collar bit, didn't fancy paying £80 for them eithers.

I meant the little screws that hold the disc on, I have chucked the old pins and there is just plain bolts on there now.

Liam

 

[fingers99]

To apply heat is a big NO NO.

Well, to apply a lot of heat everywhere (as with a plumber's torch) is a no no (melts the seals, evaporates the brake fluid, etc). A lot of heat in a short time frame in the place it counts (gas welding torch, fine nozzle) will do the job.

One trick I've used with these buggers is to mig weld on a cheap ring spanner and then bop it with a mallet. Always works..........

 

[J333EVO]

I've just got normal studs without the cool collar bit, didn't fancy paying £80 for them eithers.

I meant the little screws that hold the disc on, I have chucked the old pins and there is just plain bolts on there now.

Liam

Ah yeah cool, yeah feck paying that for Fiat for them, tho the collar bit is cool, and as the collar a 19mm hex on dead easy to get on and off for serviceing etc if you have no stud remover.

 

[Liam]

Just checked the pic of Emma's brakes, mines are the same i.e. spacer and bolts but shinier.

Liam

 

[J333EVO]

Just checked the pic of Emma's brakes, mines are the same i.e. spacer and bolts but shinier.

Liam

She has Fiat ones, came with the Abarth Sei rims.

 

[Liam]

Rallydesign sorted me out with new bits FOC but the guy was kinda cheeky.

Anyway, had a look at the shoes again and I think they are the same now, I must be doing something wrong when fitting them cos last night the old shoes would accept the new drum and now after being taken off and swopped about the drum is stuck on the old shoes.

Help!

Liam