General Battery

[bazjay]

Hi all
Have not been on for a while,my panda has been behaving it's self,until now ,went out this morning stopped and started fine maybe twice.
Got home,left car 30 mins went to start again "nothing" will not start no started motor noise ,nothing.
Dash board lights all on,all side lights,head lights all ok ,just nothing when you turn key,does sound like the battery,but my experience of this problem is that no lights or dash board would light up ,strange,hope someone has an idea

Thanks

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi all
Have not been on for a while,my panda has been behaving it's self,until now ,went out this morning stopped and started fine maybe twice.
Got home,left car 30 mins went to start again "nothing" will not start no started motor noise ,nothing.
Dash board lights all on,all side lights,head lights all ok ,just nothing when you turn key,does sound like the battery,but my experience of this problem is that no lights or dash board would light up ,strange,hope someone has an idea

Thanks

Always worth putting a 2nd Earth from Battery Negative to motor

Jumplead are good enough as a test

 

[Funky Spike]

Hi all
Have not been on for a while,my panda has been behaving it's self,until now ,went out this morning stopped and started fine maybe twice.
Got home,left car 30 mins went to start again "nothing" will not start no started motor noise ,nothing.
Dash board lights all on,all side lights,head lights all ok ,just nothing when you turn key,does sound like the battery,but my experience of this problem is that no lights or dash board would light up ,strange,hope someone has an idea

Thanks

This is exactly what my Abarth did when the battery failed in Sainsbury's car park.

When the battery failed on my old Panda Active it gave me a bit of notice by resetting the trip to zero and the clock going back to 12:00 every time I got in it.

Spike

 

[bazjay]

Interesting,you had no notice that the battery was failing,all my other electrical stuff on the car is working ok,lights,ind acators, heater,dashboard,just when you turn the key nothing,what about a jammed started motor ,do you know how this would effect the result when turning the key,it just doesn't feel like a dead battery to me,think I need to get a auto electrics man on it.

Thanks

 

[varesecrazy]

Interesting,you had no notice that the battery was failing,all my other electrical stuff on the car is working ok,lights,ind acators, heater,dashboard,just when you turn the key nothing,what about a jammed started motor ,do you know how this would effect the result when turning the key,it just doesn't feel like a dead battery to me,think I need to get a auto electrics man on it.

Thanks

Earth ruled out?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Used to be you could do a rough check on the battery by getting someone to stand in front of the car, turn the headlights on and try the starter motor. If the headlights dimmed a lot without the engine turning over then the battery became no1 suspect. However it could also be a poor battery connection.
Now a days not so easy as most systems isolate stuff like headlights etc when you try to operate the starter so that full battery power is available for the starter

Do you have a voltmeter/multimeter? if so connect it across the battery and see what the voltage is - should be over 12 volts when "idle" and, although it will vary dependent on current draw, shouldn't show less than about 10 volts when cranking the engine. Try to place the meter clips directly on the lead battery posts to eliminate any poor connection between the posts and cable clamps.

An all time favourite on Panda and 500 is corrosion of the earth lead from the chassis to the top of the gearbox (under the battery tray. putting a jump lead between the battery negative and the gearbox casing or engine block - as suggested above - is always worth trying first as it's so simple to do and costs nothing.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

bazjay suggests above that it might be a seized/jammed starter motor to free it put the car in top gear, let the hand brake off and push the car forward for a couple of feet. This will rotate the crankshaft and. If the pinion is jammed, this should free it. Of course only do this on the flat (unless you're a very fast and agile runner!)

 

[bazjay]

Used to be you could do a rough check on the battery by getting someone to stand in front of the car, turn the headlights on and try the starter motor. If the headlights dimmed a lot without the engine turning over then the battery became no1 suspect. However it could also be a poor battery connection.
Now a days not so easy as most systems isolate stuff like headlights etc when you try to operate the starter so that full battery power is available for the starter

Do you have a voltmeter/multimeter? if so connect it across the battery and see what the voltage is - should be over 12 volts when "idle" and, although it will vary dependent on current draw, shouldn't show less than about 10 volts when cranking the engine. Try to place the meter clips directly on the lead battery posts to eliminate any poor connection between the posts and cable clamps.

An all time favourite on Panda and 500 is corrosion of the earth lead from the chassis to the top of the gearbox (under the battery tray. putting a jump lead between the battery negative and the gearbox casing or engine block - as suggested above - is always worth trying first as it's so simple to do and costs nothing.

Thanks, I've had some good suggestion ,I will try all,have also arrange for a auto electrics mechanic to call out ,so I will report back for future reference,hope it's nothing expensive
Thanks

 

[bazjay]

bazjay suggests above that it might be a seized/jammed starter motor to free it put the car in top gear, let the hand brake off and push the car forward for a couple of feet. This will rotate the crankshaft and. If the pinion is jammed, this should free it. Of course only do this on the flat (unless you're a very fast and agile runner!)

Thanks,thats good info,will give it a try

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks,thats good info,will give it a try

OOps, should have said only do this with the ignition OFF! You don't want the engine to fire up with noone in the driving seat!

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

My 4x4 did exactly the same thing last year. Worked fine, worked fine, worked fine. Then with no warning, wouldn’t start half a hour later yet everything else seemed ok. Answer: battery.
I think the voltage monitor senses the voltage is not going to be enough and doesn’t even try to operate the starter relay, which means the starter itself won't try to turn at all.
Measure the voltage — with engine off and a few hours after driving: 12.8v = fully charged, 12.5v = 50% charged. 12.2v or less = dead. Mine was 11.9…
I’ll link to older post in a mo
Edit: see here https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/sudden-and-nearly-unannounced-battery-failure.501373/

 

[bazjay]

Earth ruled out?

how do you test earth,have no testing meters ??

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

how do you test earth,have no testing meters ??

Use one jump lead from battery negative to engine block or gearbox casing. By doing this you are offering the same path to earth that the body to gearbox casing strap under the battery tray achieves. If it cranks with the jump lead connected but doesn't when the jump lead is disconnected then the earth lead has to be highly suspect - could be either the lead itself or the connections at either end.

 

[The Panda Nut]

This is exactly what my Abarth did when the battery failed in Sainsbury's car park.

When the battery failed on my old Panda Active it gave me a bit of notice by resetting the trip to zero and the clock going back to 12:00 every time I got in it.

Spike

My two Pandas too.

 

[Pino65]

Hi all
Have not been on for a while,my panda has been behaving it's self,until now ,went out this morning stopped and started fine maybe twice.
Got home,left car 30 mins went to start again "nothing" will not start no started motor noise ,nothing.
Dash board lights all on,all side lights,head lights all ok ,just nothing when you turn key,does sound like the battery,but my experience of this problem is that no lights or dash board would light up ,strange,hope someone has an idea

Thanks

For what it is worth, my daughter's Mazda 2 had a similar issue, got a mechanic friend to pop round with his plug-in computer and he diagnosed that for some reason the car's computer didn't recognise the key, even though it is the same one she has used for over a year. Anyway he reset the fault and since then, no problems, hope this helps?

 

[FiatMatt94]

This is exactly what my Abarth did when the battery failed in Sainsbury's car park.

When the battery failed on my old Panda Active it gave me a bit of notice by resetting the trip to zero and the clock going back to 12:00 every time I got in it.

Spike

When the original battery was starting to fail on my Panda it was just over 3 years old, the way I noticed it was on its way out was through the steering as I noticed it was feeling a bit heavier than normal & also wasn't self centering itself when I let go of the wheel, battery replaced & problem solved, the thing is with these Fiat's though is you have to buy a decent brand battery as the dual drive power steering requires a lot from the battery for the system to work effectively

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

the thing is with these Fiat's though is you have to buy a decent brand battery as the dual drive power steering requires a lot from the battery for the system to work effectively

Oh so true and is a comment that is appropriate for almost any modern car because of the pretty much universal adoption of electric power steering and the multitude of electrical/electronic components now making up part of even the most budget priced vehicles. Just looking at alternator outputs now compared with those of, say 15 years ago, gives you some idea of the current drain on modern vehicles to say nothing of the components which are permanently drawing current even when the vehicle is parked up. It's not unusual to hear of someone who has returned from holiday only to find their car won't start due to a "flat" battery! I don't know the technical reason behind it but my perception is that modern batteries - EFB/AGM? - seem to work well up to a certain degree of discharge (better than their older "relatives" but then seem to "fall off the cliff" very rapidly. By this I mean I can remember well cars from the 60's and 70's which would exhibit slow cranking speed when the battery was beginning to fail. often you would be able to carry on for weeks like this with the engine cranking slowly but still starting thus giving you time to save a few shekels for a new battery. These days you seem to get very little warning before it won't start. Could be due to "voltage thresholds" necessary for electronic components to function rather than the battery itself though?

By the way, as many of the "regulars" on here will know, don't be tempted to go for a cheaper "wet" battery when an EFB or AGM battery is specified by the manufacturer and check whether it needs to be coded into the vehicles electronics. If it does need to be coded in and you don't do it then it's very likely your nice new battery will fail long before it should. This is because most modern vehicles have a battery condition monitor (you can often see it attached to the negative battery terminal) which monitors battery voltage under operating conditions and informs the ecu controlling alternator output to suit. If this record is not deleted, allowing the ECU to go back to it's "as new" output, the new battery will experience the charging regime which was adopted for the old, failing, battery. I'm told that if you don't reset this a new battery can fail again within as little as 2 years.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

For what it is worth, my daughter's Mazda 2 had a similar issue, got a mechanic friend to pop round with his plug-in computer and he diagnosed that for some reason the car's computer didn't recognise the key, even though it is the same one she has used for over a year. Anyway he reset the fault and since then, no problems, hope this helps?

If the key is not recognised on the Panda, a warning light that resembles a padlock through a car is shown.

 

[Jamie KC]

Lots of good points above, I had a similar prob just under two weeks ago too.

Mine was a jammed starter, but if you haven’t already then do this as suggested by a couple of peeps above

Use one jump lead from battery negative to engine block or gearbox casing. By doing this you are offering the same path to earth that the body to gearbox casing strap under the battery tray achieves. If it cranks with the jump lead connected but doesn't when the jump lead is disconnected then the earth lead has to be highly suspect - could be either the lead itself or the connections at either end.

To the engine hoist hook will do and is nice and accessible.

You do need to check voltage next if above doesn’t help. Get a cheap multimeter from Screwfix or similar, or borrow one.

• Test voltage across battery terminals, ideally you’d like to see 12.6v, but you may read lower as there will have been a couple of days of faffage draining it down a bit. Mine read 12.35v, but still spun over perfectly.
• Next move the negative probe to a clean looking bolt on the body, try a couple to get an accurate reading and work the probe on the head of the bolt to get good contact. Should read as first reading if all is well.
• Then move neg probe to engine block and repeat. Should get the same again.
• Now get someone to turn the key to ignition position. I’d expect to see a small voltage drop with ignition on as systems warm and prime, then settle again.
• Then turn key to cranking position. Expect a larger voltage drop now. Shows the starter is trying but not turning

bazjay suggests above that it might be a seized/jammed starter motor to free it put the car in top gear, let the hand brake off and push the car forward for a couple of feet. This will rotate the crankshaft and. If the pinion is jammed, this should free it. Of course only do this on the flat (unless you're a very fast and agile runner!)

This is something I tried, but would only work if the starter pinion is engaged with flywheel, not if the starter is jammed in the retracted position.

As I said, mine was a jammed starter, sussed out by a determined AA man who eventually put a bar against the starter solenoid and gave it a tap whilst I cranked it, started spinning with a couple of good firm taps!

 

[bazjay]

Hi all
Some great advise,know a lot more about my battery system then I did before,fitted a new earth to gearbix,renewed battery ,everything seems ok,also the steering is better something I would not have thought,so all in all great result.

Thank for members input a great help.