Technical Battery light comes on at high revs

[fiatmultiair]

Hello,
I have a new issue, when the revs are high for longer periods like 5 minutes+ the car battery shows up and does not come on, servo becomes hard and softens only when I start moving, when stationary it's hard to move the wheel. Not sure if this is a battery issue or an alternator.
If anyone had similar issues please let me know, as I can replace the battery easily tomorrow, but the alternator I'm not sure which one to use for my Multiair 1.4 Evo 2009 135hp.
When I came home last night, the battery light was on, but when I shut off the car, turned it right back on, the battery light was gone and servo worked just fine.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hello,
I have a new issue, when the revs are high for longer periods like 5 minutes+ the car battery shows up and does not come on, servo becomes hard and softens only when I start moving, when stationary it's hard to move the wheel. Not sure if this is a battery issue or an alternator.
If anyone had similar issues please let me know, as I can replace the battery easily tomorrow, but the alternator I'm not sure which one to use for my Multiair 1.4 Evo 2009 135hp.
When I came home last night, the battery light was on, but when I shut off the car, turned it right back on, the battery light was gone and servo worked just fine.

Hi

Check voltage's at various RPM,
a cigarette light 12 v socket Volt Meter is good for this..

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hi

Check voltage's at various RPM,
a cigarette light 12 v socket Volt Meter is good for this..

Aye Charlie, a very good place to start. We don't even know if the OP has a voltmeter though or how much experience he/she has? From past experience we've all had, the battery is always a good rough guess. Strange the light went out and all worked well after switching off and back on though? So I'd be reluctant to simply slap a new battery in without further investigation.

Another situation where owning a Battery Condition Analyser would be a boon - still working on Mrs J to allow me to buy one! By the way, for those in the UK, our local Halfords are very happy to check your battery with their BCA and our one does it free of charge so I guess they probably all do. Procedure takes just a minute or two - you wait longer for the chap to get the meter from the workshop than the time the test takes - and it's a very accurate indicator as to whether you need to replace the battery or not. If they run the full check it tells you a lot about whether the charging system is working correctly too. If it produces a satisfactory result you just drive away at no cost - well you do at our branch anyway, maybe ask first at your's? I guess they get enough positive results to be worth their while?

 

[fiatmultiair]

Okay battery light is on all the time now, I checked and it's 12,04 V on the battery at first measurement, next I turned on the car and revved it a bit after it got a bit warm, and turned on the lights and it was 11,99 and got to about 11,70 or so Volts. Question is, is this the battery or the soul crushing 350 euro + labor repair for the alternator?

 

[varesecrazy]

Okay battery light is on all the time now, I checked and it's 12,04 V on the battery at first measurement, next I turned on the car and revved it a bit after it got a bit warm, and turned on the lights and it was 11,99 and got to about 11,70 or so Volts. Question is, is this the battery or the soul crushing 350 euro + labor repair for the alternator?

With engine idling,

alternator SHOULD be @14 volts

Can you access a plug in meter for the lighter 12v socket


Some cars have "smart alternators" and the charge is essentially "switched" on and off


Alternator :

It may well be the Brushes have worn away, they only cost @15 Euro


I used to change them on my Diesel Alternators

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

As Charlie says above with engine running you would expect to see more than the at rest battery voltage - depending on several factors anywhere between 13.5 to 14.5 may be seen. So it would seem that the alternator is not charging but this doesn't necessarily mean the alternator is toast! The windings in the alternator need to be fed with battery voltage for it to produce a charge so it may simply be that this is not happening. Look for the small wire on the alternator and test between that and earth with your multimeter set on voltage range. With the ignition on but engine not running you should see battery voltage on this terminal. The large terminal on the alternator should be battery live all the time (regardless of ignition switch position)
There are some very clever load dependent charging systems on modern cars which don't completely follow these rules but I doubt if the wee 1.2 Panda @2015 is one of them.

 

[varesecrazy]

As Charlie says above with engine running you would expect to see more than the at rest battery voltage - depending on several factors anywhere between 13.5 to 14.5 may be seen. So it would seem that the alternator is not charging but this doesn't necessarily mean the alternator is toast! The windings in the alternator need to be fed with battery voltage for it to produce a charge so it may simply be that this is not happening. Look for the small wire on the alternator and test between that and earth with your multimeter set on voltage range. With the ignition on but engine not running you should see battery voltage on this terminal. The large terminal on the alternator should be battery live all the time (regardless of ignition switch position)
There are some very clever load dependent charging systems on modern cars which don't completely follow these rules but I doubt if the wee 1.2 Panda @2015 is one of them.

Always a chance the drive belt has failed..

Do check

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Always a chance the drive belt has failed..

Do check

See? that's me all over. Always go for the most difficult/expensive possibility first!

 

[fiatmultiair]

I have to jack up the car to reach the alternator :| I can barely see it let a lone reach that, but it makes some strange noises with the belt so that is probably broken as well

 

[fiatmultiair]

12.39 V is when the engine is off.
11.94 V is when the engine is on.
11.77 V is engine running and headlights on.

Tried again to reach the alternator but that is too tight and I'm unable to reach the alternator. The belts are there, I can hear something like a ball bearing squeaking from the area there the alternator is, but it's spinning and there is no sign of it being stopped or not spinning or the belt being torn.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

12.39 V is when the engine is off.
11.94 V is when the engine is on.
11.77 V is engine running and headlights on.

Tried again to reach the alternator but that is too tight and I'm unable to reach the alternator. The belts are there, I can hear something like a ball bearing squeaking from the area there the alternator is, but it's spinning and there is no sign of it being stopped or not spinning or the belt being torn.

That pretty much confirms that the battery is not being charged. You've no problem with cranking the engine though? which would seem to rule out the, always suspect, earth strap problem. If your car has aircon then the compressor really gets in the way of doing an alternator change so the next question is, are you intending to renew the alternator yourself - assuming it's croaked? If not then I think now is probably the time to hand over to an auto electrician or whoever you're going to get to do the job.

 

[fiatmultiair]

That pretty much confirms that the battery is not being charged. You've no problem with cranking the engine though? which would seem to rule out the, always suspect, earth strap problem. If your car has aircon then the compressor really gets in the way of doing an alternator change so the next question is, are you intending to renew the alternator yourself - assuming it's croaked? If not then I think now is probably the time to hand over to an auto electrician or whoever you're going to get to do the job.

Well, the engine cranks and starts up but it is a bit janky, it's not what it used to be before the battery light came on, there is a different sound to the engine or from some component of the engine.
I've got a price on what it will cost to replace the thing from the unreliable local official fiat service. The job is very difficult, so I did not want to make my local mechanics quit their jobs because of my car

Thank you for everyone who replied here!

 

[fiatmultiair]

Update on my issue:
The alternator housing is cracked, the thing is hard to move it does not spin freely, looks like something d*ed inside of it and lots of dust.
Got a new alternator, everything seems to be running alright so far.

 

[varesecrazy]

Update on my issue:
The alternator housing is cracked, the thing is hard to move it does not spin freely, looks like something d*ed inside of it and lots of dust.
Got a new alternator, everything seems to be running alright so far.

Thanks for the update, good to hear car now runs OK

Possible a bearing failed inside..? And forces cracked the body..

IMPORTANT:
the Grande Punto had these problems..
The Scuttle Drains have a rubber tube that directs the Rainwater down from the scuttle, on a 1.2 Grande, the tube dumped All of the Water onto the Alternator ( they changed the tube design by my 2012 Twinair)

Here is a photo from my 2008 mj, hose full of mud,
As you can see the disign means you can point it around by turning /rotating.. So you have no water on your alternator

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I was just reflecting on this thread and a thought surfaced from the dark muddy murky depths that pass for my mental processes. I think we've probably all enjoyed posting here but rather than endlessly making, educated, guesses at the nature of the problem, a simple visual examination would have very quickly identified the problem. It occurs to me that many of our conversation/giving of advice on this wonderful forum take this form. In other words there's nothing like letting the "dog see the hare, or is it Rabbit?" by being there with the vehicle and getting to grips with it. However that's not to say that there is much to be gained from the opinions and advice offered which often helps those with perhaps a similar but different problem. For instance Charlie's excellent advice about the, well know to us but perhaps not to others, Plenum chamber drain pipes dumping water on the poor alternator. Anyway, it's fun engaging with this sort of stuff and I hope we all go on doing so.

 

[fiatmultiair]

Without this thread I would've probably gone to my local mechanic and lost way more money they I would have. I know this was a guessing thread but it helped alot. The model of engine I have is a nightmare to reach the alternator, as you can barely see it let alone replace it with a home wrench and some cheap tools from a local supermarket.
Seems like Satan really did engineer these engines by looking at the drain tube leaking water onto critical components in the engine bay. I found the tube and will try to get it into a better position, thank you varesecrazy for making me aware of this, as I've seen a lot of cracked DAN993's on the internet and was wondering why this is.