Are modern cars too good?

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Are modern cars too good?

I thought the Talbot Rancho was the first Compact SUV?



Matra-Rancho-front-xlarge.jpg




Handsome beast of a thing. :)



On the insurance side debate, the Meerkats are good to give your brokers a target. My guys usually undercut whatever they quote. ;)


Pah

Suzuki have been at it for years.
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From the same era as the Talbot, was the Toyota tercel 4x4 and the Suzuki Leone.

When the small SUV thing really took off was the 90s with the rise in popularity of the Vitara and appearance of cars like the freelander and RAV4, before that small 4x4s were just farmers run arounds full of hay bales and livestock
 
My brother's first car was a 1977 Rancho. I used to have a Tercel.

tdBxGYGF


Found it in my sand blasters hedge last year. Started first turn of the key and I'm still waiting to buy the old girl back. ;)
 
My brother's first car was a 1977 Rancho. I used to have a Tercel.

tdBxGYGF


Found it in my sand blasters hedge last year. Started first turn of the key and I'm still waiting to buy the old girl back. ;)

I think my 1st car was scrapped sometime in the last 2 years. :(
 

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They're SUVs though, rather than crossovers. The juke and qashqai were the 1st jumped up hatchbacks, for want of a better way of putting it.


Aside from the likes of the freelander Vauxhall frontera etc The Honda CR-V and more specifically the HRV are far more like a hatchback suv and indeed the HRV came as a 2 or 4 wheel drive back as far as 1999, nissans offerings didn't turn up till 2007

The RAV4 was also available as a 2wd long before the Qashqai and juke, so as usual you're a long way off.
 
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Aside from the likes of the freelander Vauxhall frontera etc The Honda CR-V and more specifically the HRV are far more like a hatchback suv and indeed the HRV came as a 2 or 4 wheel drive back as far as 1999, nissans offerings didn't turn up till 2007

They were designed to look like offroaders though. For example, the juke looks like a tall hatchback, and it's success led to the 500X, the Captur and the 2008, etc. That's what I meant.
 
They were designed to look like offroaders though. For example, the juke looks like a tall hatchback, and it's success led to the 500X, the Captur and the 2008, etc. That's what I meant.


1. You're just making it up as you go along and 2. This was never meant to look like and off roader.

HONDAHR-V5Doors-3076_2.jpg


Looks like a ripped off 80s Volvo estate on jacked up suspension.

And what about things like the X90 not a hatch I'll grant you but certainly laid the foundations of small SUVs Nissans cars were not the first by a long shot. I'd also argue that they were meant to look like 4x4s to take on the likes of the freelander and other small 4wd cars.

The popularity of these little 4x4s grew because of people wanting a little Chelsea tractor without the running costs of the range rovers and x5, they actually make good little family cars
 
Just to recap before you go shifting your argument to avoid being wrong


The juke and qashqai were the 1st jumped up hatchbacks, for want of a better way of putting it.


As established, no they weren't.


Granted, I had forgotten about those Hondas, but like the X-90, they weren't the phenomenal sales success of the Nissans.


Doesn't matter a jot. Nissan still weren't the first which was your original statement.
And I'd pointed out above the existence of the HRV in my last post so how exactly had you forgotten about the. When they formed part of the discussion
 
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My original statement was that it was Nissan who kick started the whole crossover craze, and that still stands. As Liquid Knight stated it was actually the Talbot Matra Rancho which can claim to be the 1st "crossover" but it was Nissan who led to most manufacturers having at least 1 tall 2wd hatchback in their range.
 
For want of a better way of explaining what I meant, whilst Peugeot weren't the 1st to build a car with a fully automated folding hardtop, they were the first to make it affordable for the masses, which led to folding hardtops becoming commonplace.
 
My original statement was that it was Nissan who kick started the whole crossover craze, and that still stands. As Liquid Knight stated it was actually the Talbot Matra Rancho which can claim to be the 1st "crossover" but it was Nissan who led to most manufacturers having at least 1 tall 2wd hatchback in their range.


Still no

For at least a decade before the Qashqai or the juke came to be mums up and down the country were taking kids to school in range rovers, discoverys, Then rav4s ,Hondas freelanders xc90 a whole host of small suzukis not to mention the smaller cross over cars such as the xc70 the forester and other 4x4 estate cars with off road capabilities. As the demand for smaller cheaper to run 4x4s came about so did the nissans but then so did the countryman the tiguan the BMW X3 and X1 the Audi Q model range all along side their bigger brothers? There have been a multitude of big and small 2wd and 4wd SUV type cars over decades, the Talbot as already pointed out was no more the start of it than then as the juke is now. If anything kicked off the household 4x4 idea it was the original Range Rover which is about as big as most current "cross overs" if not a little smaller.
 
For want of a better way of explaining what I meant, whilst Peugeot weren't the 1st to build a car with a fully automated folding hardtop, they were the first to make it affordable for the masses, which led to folding hardtops becoming commonplace.


They were the first to build a production car with an automatic metal folding roof in the 1930s, then ford made thousands of cars in the 1950s and 60s with folding metal roofs which they sold at affordable prices to the masses....which kinda p*sses on that line of argument.

The 1935 Peugeot 601 ;)
Peugeot_601_C_Eclipse_1934_Pourtout.jpg
 
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Fair enough, I didn't realise the folding roof was automatic on the Peugeot, and I'm aware of the Ford Fairlane 500 Skyliner, however, that wasn't available worldwide. It was the SLK which resulted in electric folding hardtops becoming truly mass produced, providing the inspiration for the 206cc next, etc.

Once again, you have taken a single comment, and completely and utterly picked it to pieces. My opinion is that Nissan started the whole crossover craze, your opinion is different; let's end it there and get the thread back on topic.
 
My opinion is that Nissan started the whole crossover craze.


Then state it's "your opinion" instead of constantly insisting everything is fact, which is what you've done up to the point you've been proven wrong.

You then come back with a pretence you know all about metal folding roofs and contradicting yourself AFTER!!its been pointed out you're completely wrong. The full knowledge of things that your are passing comment on is nothing more than what you've been able to quickly Google.
 
So, the original question: Are modern cars too good?

I suppose it depends on what you want out of your car. If I'm leaving home at 05:15 on a January morning in sub-zero temperatures, what I really want is:
a) Door locks not to be frozen. b) Door not to stick to the bodywork. c) Car to start first time. d) heater to warm up within about 10 minutes tops.

At 05:15 on a sub-zero January morning I'll accept any pile of crap if it does those things. Travelling the Snake Pass or Blubberhouses (or the Route Napoleon for that matter) at almost any other time I want something different.

For what I want, travelling to work and generally getting around, my Panda MJ is ideal. It's been tediously reliable, economical to run and as there only two of us and a medium sized dog, it's ideal. Anyway, we also have a Giulietta MA which, conveniently for me, Mrs. Beard has bought and paid for. But if we go anywhere long distance I drive it, so it's a bit like having a free hire car.

The Panda has ABS, two airbags and only two head restraints. Do I need more? Well, the heater works and I really don't need traction control or any other aids. I'm not saying I'm perfect but I haven't had an own fault accident since 1979 and trust me, it hasn't been electronic driver aids that have kept me out of A & E. When I walk out of the house and scrape ice off the windows I have this strange thought: The roads might be slippery, I'd better moderate my acceleration and speed on approach to hazards.

Do I need a reversing camera? Er no. I turn my head and switch on the Mk1 eyeball. The Panda doesn't have Bluetooth compatibility either, but I did splash out £14.99 on a Jabra thingy to go in my ear.

I know this is going to whiff of "Silly old git", but the more we equip our cars with technology, the less we need to do ourselves, and the more we take away personal responsibility. There have already been several (as yet unsuccessful) attempts to sue a driver who has let someone out of a side road by flashing headlights when a collision has occurred as a result.

"It wasn't my fault, he told me to do it Your Worship"

A degree of fallibility in a car is no bad thing, and if we open our minds we can learn from it. One of my earliest lessons in driving (after passing my test) was when I borrowed my dad's Vauxhall Ventora and drove it on snow. A cold 3.3 litre engine running on automatic choke coupled with an auto 'box made for an interesting experience. 1st sharp corner and I pressed the brakes. When I turned the steering wheel it just carried on in a straight line. Er, what haven't I done yet? Although it was counter-intuitive, I released the brakes and it went round the corner. Lesson learned. Automatic chokes have changed and ABS has reduced the chance of that happening again, but it did teach me something about vehicle dynamics, which is still important in understanding how cars behave.

But what happens when we rely on technology and it isn't enough? Two winters ago I came across a situation on the motorway where the driver of a Q7 had tried to be a hero in his super 4 X 4 and dived for a very small gap at an exit slip road, hauled on his huge ABS brakes, which made the most of the grip afforded by his huge tyres.....and rear ended an artic with his front near-side. The car then bounced across all three lanes and rear-ended the central Armco before coming to a halt. The front 'bags protected his face, the window and seat 'bags protected his head. Great. Sadly his organs were still slopping around inside his rib cage and, although he survived, his injuries were described as "Life changing".

The tech probably saved his life, but his reliance on that tech cost him, at least, two years off work, his business and debilitating injuries and a whole lot of pain. Using his brain would have saved him a lot of grief.

On the other hand, would I want to drive a really powerful car without driver aids? Trying to imagine exploiting the performance of, for example, a Jag XKR without the benefits of some kind of traction control really doesn't bear thinking about.
 
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So, the original question: Are modern cars too good?

I suppose it depends on what you want out of your car. If I'm leaving home at 05:15 on a January morning in sub-zero temperatures, what I really want is:
a) Door locks not to be frozen. b) Door not to stick to the bodywork. c) Car to start first time. d) heater to warm up within about 10 minutes tops.

At 05:15 on a sub-zero January morning I'll accept any pile of crap if it does those things. Travelling the Snake Pass or Blubberhouses (or the Route Napoleon for that matter) at almost any other time I want something different.

For what I want, travelling to work and generally getting around, my Panda MJ is ideal. It's been tediously reliable, economical to run and as there only two of us and a medium sized dog, it's ideal. Anyway, we also have a Giulietta MA which, conveniently for me, Mrs. Beard has bought and paid for. But if we go anywhere long distance I drive it, so it's a bit like having a free hire car.

The Panda has ABS, two airbags and only two head restraints. Do I need more? Well, the heater works and I really don't need traction control or any other aids. I'm not saying I'm perfect but I haven't had an own fault accident since 1979 and trust me, it hasn't been electronic driver aids that have kept me out of A & E. When I walk out of the house and scrape ice off the windows I have this strange thought: The roads might be slippery, I'd better moderate my acceleration and speed on approach to hazards.

Do I need a reversing camera? Er no. I turn my head and switch on the Mk1 eyeball. The Panda doesn't have Bluetooth compatibility either, but I did splash out £14.99 on a Jabra thingy to go in my ear.

I know this is going to whiff of "Silly old git", but the more we equip our cars with technology, the less we need to do ourselves, and the more we take away personal responsibility. There have already been several (as yet unsuccessful) attempts to sue a driver who has let someone out of a side road by flashing headlights when a collision has occurred as a result.

"It wasn't my fault, he told me to do it Your Worship"

A degree of fallibility in a car is no bad thing, and if we open our minds we can learn from it. One of my earliest lessons in driving (after passing my test) was when I borrowed my dad's Vauxhall Ventora and drove it on snow. A cold 3.3 litre engine running on automatic choke coupled with an auto 'box made for an interesting experience. 1st sharp corner and I pressed the brakes. When I turned the steering wheel it just carried on in a straight line. Er, what haven't I done yet? Although it was counter-intuitive, I released the brakes and it went round the corner. Lesson learned. Automatic chokes have changed and ABS has reduced the chance of that happening again, but it did teach me something about vehicle dynamics, which is still important in understanding how cars behave.

But what happens when we rely on technology and it isn't enough? Two winters ago I came across a situation on the motorway where the driver of a Q7 had tried to be a hero in his super 4 X 4 and dived for a very small gap at an exit slip road, hauled on his huge ABS brakes, which made the most of the grip afforded by his huge tyres.....and rear ended an artic with his front near-side. The car then bounced across all three lanes and rear-ended the central Armco before coming to a halt. The front 'bags protected his face, the window and seat 'bags protected his head. Great. Sadly his organs were still slopping around inside his rib cage and, although he survived, his injuries were described as "Life changing".

The tech probably saved his life, but his reliance on that tech cost him, at least, two years off work, his business and debilitating injuries and a whole lot of pain. Using his brain would have saved him a lot of grief.

On the other hand, would I want to drive a really powerful car without driver aids? Trying to imagine exploiting the performance of, for example, a Jag XKR without the benefits of some kind of traction control really doesn't bear thinking about.

Amen! :thumbup:
 
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