General 1.6 Engine Fault - Please help.

[Shminkypinky]

My Stilo 1.6 16V Dynamic with 89,000 miles on it decided to throw a wobbler on Sunday.
The car lost power and started to run like it does whn a coil fails as if it is running on 3 cylinders.

Called AA who read code as cylinder 1 problem. He replaced the coil (I carry spares) then all the spark plugs.
Still the car ran as described - he was scratching his head at this point.
He confirmed all the signals were getting to coils and determined that the car needed a compression test.

Car had compression test by independant mechanic who reports that Cylinder 1 has no compression, cylinder 2 has 19 bar, Cylinder 3 has 12.5 bar 4 has 19 Bar.

Any ideas?? Could this be as simple as a head gasket failure? or is it likely to be valves or pistons.

Is there anything I can do to narrow down the search.

I've even read that this could be an ECU problem - would I get a loss of compression if it was?

Car uses and always has used about a litre a month of oil - is this significant.

I am wondering if its worth fixing as the car is an 02 plate with nearly 90,000 on the clock. I will be gutted if its the end as its been a great car!

Sorry for duplicat post but I only had one reply and I have scoured this site using search tools.

 

[Deckchair5]

No compression at all is always going to be expensive
The fact you have the adjacent cylinder with a much lower compression than the remaining two points to maybe a head gasket as the gases escape betwen the two cylinders No 1 and 2.

It may be valves as it takes quite a big hole to have no compression at all. When mine cracked a valve on No 1 cylinder then there was no compression on that cylinder but all the other cylinders were fine.

Whatever it is, it won't really make much difference as once you have the head off then you can replace valves as many valves as it may need ( I had all the exhaust valves changed) without adding much to the cost

The expense is getting the head off, skimming head, new timing belts and tensioners, new head bolts etc. Unless you've blown a hole in the piston (your symptoms aren't indicating that but it's another way of losing all compression) then it's head off and investigation time

PS your previous post said No 2 cylinder has 12.5 bar compression and 3 and 4 equal at 19bar so I'm assuming your post above has a typo

You can have a look here at my tale of woe from a year or so ago
https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/224443-mysterious-misfire-diagnosis-broken-valve.html

 

[Shminkypinky]

Hi Deckchair - many thanks for your reply its much appreciated.

revious post was a typo.

The symptoms are as described in this post with cylinder 1 having no compression and 3 with 12.5 bar.

I will read your link after typing this but how much do you reckon to repair this and is it worth it or should I think about replacing the car?

Many Thanks

 

[Deckchair5]

If it's cylinders 1 and 3 that are down then it's less likely to be head gasket and more like valves but it's only going to be certain with head taken off for a look

You can see how much my repairs were so yours would be similar.Only you can decide whether it's worth it for you

 

[Shminkypinky]

Ok read it now - £850 yikes! - Merry Christmas

Decks - once this is done do you think the car will last another 80 odd thousand??? or is it a case of fix it and then sell it?

Also why do you have to have the block skimmed if it didn't overheat?

 

[Deckchair5]

The way you drive? Not a chance. Ha!
No idea how long they're going to last, some have gone to quite high mileage, others blow gearboxes and diffs for no real reason other than poor build

It's generally good practice to have head skimmed (not the block) and refurbished as it's expensive enough just to have the job done once rather than having to do it yet again because the head gasket blew straight away. Alloy heads tend to warp out of shape more. Garages often send the head off to a specialist who can do the whole job quicker and cheaper than them messing about it with themselves

 

[Morty Mort]

Car uses and always has used about a litre a month of oil - is this significant.

Damn. My 1.6 has used one litre in 5 years. Maybe your piston seals / rings are worn or stuck = No / low compression?

 

[Shminkypinky]

Forgot to mention that I had cam belt and tensioners replaced over 2 weeks ago. Car had been running great since.
Could this have any significance to my problem?

 

[Deckchair5]

Always leaving the important information until last eh? I had a cambelt change and within hours my engine is dead

Well, I doubt if the cambelt has slipped but let's say the valve and crank timing wasn't aligned correctly. That could burn holes in valves easily.

But I would expect a timing fault code as the car should recognise cam sensor to crank sensor synchronising timing errors and the 1.6 performance is usually immediately noticeable if valve timing is incorrect

If it was totally fine after the cambelt change ie starting, idle speed, acceleration and no fault codes at higher speeds then I doubt if it has much to do with it but who knows? If they mistimed the inlet cams then you might have slightly open inlet valves at the wrong time

 

[Morty Mort]

But one cylinder with no pressure??? At all? Where's the pressure then? Those other 3 have normal pressure. Either there is a big crack in your head (engine's that is) or your piston rings must be gone. It propably has pretty much to do with the one litre of oil per month.

Head off in my opinion.

 

[Argonought]

I'd be mighty suspicious if my engine lost all compression on one cylinder just after a cam belt change (did they mess up and end up doing the job twice - after causing a little valve damage :chin.

If they did then you still have to work out why the engine ran fine for 2 weeks and as Morten says, with high oil consumption, the engine wasn't exactly in a perfect state of heath to start with.

 

[Deckchair5]

I expect there'll be a few valves with holes burnt in them on the seats. Expect a cover up from the garage who may have mistimed a camshaft and that's a bit impossible to prove once the cambelt and head is removed. Much lower compression on cylinder 3 might indicate exhaust gases are still blowing by the valves there

Even very worn piston rings will still give some kind of compression and putting a little oil in the bore will temporarily seal them to test them out. Zero compression is literally a hole somewhere

If it's always used the same amount of oil since the long time you've had it then that may not be so relevant. Oil used per month isn't much of a guideline, depends how many miles and whether you use your car for lots of short fast trips and type of oil you use

A leak down test by pumping gas into the cylinder spark plug hole will show up where the leak is

 

[Shminkypinky]

I was getting a bit worried then about a crack/hole in engine. If that is the case is it curtains for the engine???

I'm hoping its something with valves or better still head gasket - although the latter seems unlikely now.

The car does about 150-200 miles per week - and yes there are a few short trips in there.
Car has always used oil so I was also not too concerned about that.
I use cheap semi synthetic oil 10W 40 - usually morris/unipart as I got fed up of putting expensive stuff in - made no difference.

Anyway i'm going with it on Sunday to have a look - im a bit stressed about losing the car!

I have started looking at replacement vehicles and can't help looking at the Stilo's - but am not sure!

If the engine is buggered what would you be inclined to do - get a replacement engine and hope for the best or just accept the loss and get another car?

 

[ramborobert]

With that age and miles id be looking at a new car if i was you. Hopefully its not a hole in the engine and is repairable good luck.

 

[Argonought]

Anyway i'm going with it on Sunday to have a look - im a bit stressed about losing the car!

If you do decide to go for a repair then I'd be inclined to use a Fiat/Alfa specialist rather than the garage that changed the cam belt and ask them to look for anything odd.

Remember though, a part rebuild (valves etc) is unlikely to resolve the highish oil consumption.

 

[Shminkypinky]

Turns out the car had burnt out 2 valves on cylinder 1. There are 2 large chunks missing from them. The Cylinder head refurbisher said they had been burnt away rather than smashed???

Anyway the car is now running however I still have and engine fault. I have tried the 3 starts to clear the fault but still it remains.

Engine seems to be running ok so has the fault been stored and do I need FIAT to extinguish the fault light or is there anything I can do to get rid of it?ny

Should the fault have gone on ts own??? If so have I therefore got another fault?

Many Thanks for all your help.

 

[Deckchair5]

Burnt valves were as we expected and are very likely to be down to a mistimed camshaft at your cambelt change but that's very difficult to prove.

Wonder why your cylinder 3 showed much lower compression? mistimed valves again? Wonder what the compression is now?

Your garage should be doing all this. Why couldn't the garage find out what fault code is coming up? It would be best to find out what the engine is trying to tell you and not just clear the stored code. It might be an easy fix like a MAP error or it might be something very important

Haven't you got a fault code reader of some sort? If no then it would be a good investment

 

[Shminkypinky]

No I do not have a fault code reader - how much is one and where can I purchase?

The garage I am using is an independant - one man band who is a family friend. I have been helping him fix the car but he does not have a fault code reader as he uses a local car electrics firm. Hopefully he will be able to read the codes and tell us more.

I do not know of a good garage who I can trust locally hence why I use our family friend.

Would a cylinder 1 fault code reset itslef when the problem is sorted?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Deckchair5]

With a 1.6 then you are spoilt for choice with fault code readers from Ebay. An EOBD2 reader will plug straight in. But it depends how much you want to do as to how deep you go with communications with your car. If you want to connect your laptop then you need an interface cable. This enables you to do MUCH more.

Depends what the fault code is as to whether it should clear itself

Anyone who is doing car maintenance but has not even a simple fault code reader is... errr not adapting to technology and making their life hard

 

[Shminkypinky]

Decks - I 100% agree that garages should move with the times however my friend is more old school. He uses a local garage who he used to work for to get information and has access to their readers this is where the car is going in the morning.

I chose to use our family friend as he has looked after our cars for years and we trust him, and you know he won't rip you off - this is important to me.

Anyway - 1 - do i get rid of the Stilo now while I can get some money for it (1k perhaps) or
2- risk running it for the next couple of months and hope its all ok now.

I have totally lost all confidence in the car now and am worried it will let me down again pretty soon!

What do you think?