General Panda engine dies intermittently/won't start

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General Panda engine dies intermittently/won't start

Beancounter

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Good afternoon all :) Am I breaching protocol by not buying a virtual round with my first post? :eek:

Wifey and I are having some issues with our car.

The first issue is that the car won't start. Starting motor rumbles away fine, fuel pump is pumping OPECs finest, fuel filter is clear, spark plugs have a good spark, HT leads were new about four weeks ago and the dizzy cap was replaced last week.

We called the AA to the car yesterday and they suggest the carb needs stripping as there could be a blockage in one of the jets. Is this likely? How easy is it to strip the carb? Would it be easier to replace the carb? :(

The second issue, which has been occurring for the past few weeks, is to do with the engine dying nearly always on motorway types stretches of road. The engine will be up to operating temperature (90 deg. C), choke fully in and the driver will be happily doing 70/80 with their foot on the floor. Get to a hill and the engine starts to lose power and gradually you come to a halt. Even dropping gears does not maintain power. The engine won't kick back into life for a good few minutes and then normal service is resumed, until it happens again. It happened twice on an 80 miles trip on Saturday night, within 30 miles of each other.

Each time on the upward part of a hill, each time foot was flat to the floor to maintain speed.

Is the engine being flooded? Carb icing perhaps?

This only seems to happen on motorways and the like. There is an underlying problem with the idle running low (we think - no rev counter). Around town, the choke still needs to be slightly engaged to prevent stalling at traffic lights etc. though the car seems to run fine with the choke on a bit.

My apologies for the long post, but any help will be greatly appreciated :)

TIA,

:)
 
This sounds to me like a common Panda problem with the vacuum advance unit. All the symptoms are there. Most people do mistake it for a fueling problem as the car dies for no apparent reason and only starts up again after cranking it repeatedly. The low idle also ties in with this. It's been an issue on every FIRE engined Panda I've owned at various mileage. I replace the vacuum advance as a matter of course when I pick up a new Panda.

Welcome to the forum. :)
 
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Steve said:
This sounds to me like a common Panda problem with the vacuum advance unit. All the symptoms are there. Most people do mistake it for a fueling problem as the car dies for no apparent reason and only starts up again after cranking it repeatedly. The low idle also ties in with this. It's been an issue on every FIRE engined Panda I've owned at various mileage. I replace the vacuum advance as a matter of course when I pick up a new Panda.

Welcome to the forum. :)

Wow, thanks for the quick reply Steve :)

Is the vacuum advance unit a 'bolt on' part? Is it easy to find and sort this problem out?

Cheers,

:)
 
Hang on and I'll find a photo.

Edit - here you go, it's the round device on top of the distributor. Fiddly enough to replace but easy enough at the same time.

DSC00440.jpg
 
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As Steve said, poor tickover is often a sign the vacuum advance is on the way out. Same problem the FIRE engined Uno's have!

As for the engine dying at night on a motorway, sounds like carburetor icing to me. FIRE engines are notorious for this, and I got a bit of these the other day too. It's got cold lately, plus the air is damp. Perfect recipe for an iced up carburetor!

You'll probably find that the tickover will be awful when this happens, or the engine will try and stall. The more you drive it, the worse it will get until you end up with no power at all. If you leave the car sitting for a few minutes or so, the heatsoak from the engine will melt the ice crystals in the carburetor, and then magically it will start and run fine again until the next bout of icing. I knew this only too well until I sussed out the problem on my first FIRE Uno...

Check you have the little metal foil pipe the runs from the exhaust manifold to the bottom of the airbox. This directs hot air into the thermostatic flap to keep the air temperature correct.

Also, take off the front half of the airbox and make sure the hot air intake flap is connected to the heat sensitive plunger. You can also use a hot air gun on a low setting, point it at the plunger and make sure it is operating the flap. When cold, it should close off the cold air intake, and when hot it should close the hot air intake.

The carburetor is easy to strip down and clean (Weber 32 TLF). It only has a single barrel and a few jets and diaphragms. Use a Haynes or Porter manual for instructions on how to overhaul it - can be done in a couple of hours easily.

Best of luck!
 
Cheers for the advice guys.

We (I'm Mrs Beancounter) stripped the carb and checked the needles/tubes/jets/ whatever they're called, coated them all in carb cleaner and put it back together. I'm confident that none of them were blocked, but that's what led to the concern - what to try next :cry: !

It is a 1000cc FIRE engine, so we'll try the vacuum unit next.

Thanks again for the help (y)
 
There is a really easy way to check the vacuum advance...

That Pic that Steve put up is off my old scrap Panda.. Hopefully your unit looks a bit better:eek: The little pipe coming of the unit should have a hose running to the carb. Disconnect the carb end and then...

It works on a vacuum so if you can blow thou it then your not going to get much of a vacuum....

If you can't blow thou it then you gotta check the usual fiat stuff like wonky distributor and such.

Jim
 
Diablo said:
Cheers for the advice guys.

We (I'm Mrs Beancounter) stripped the carb and checked the needles/tubes/jets/ whatever they're called, coated them all in carb cleaner and put it back together. I'm confident that none of them were blocked, but that's what led to the concern - what to try next :cry: !

It is a 1000cc FIRE engine, so we'll try the vacuum unit next.

Thanks again for the help (y)
If you took the carb appart and didn't replace all the gaskets it could cause problems, they also have a tendency to have faulty mixture adjust. You can buy a service kit that comes with new gaskets and o rings & new mix screw. Other than that I agree with all else said.
 
I had this problem wih Mr Bump - it turns out that my carb and my distributor were knackered - Replaced with new ones and now fine!
 
Steve said:
I replace the vacuum advance as a matter of course when I pick up a new Panda.
Me too. It's the quickest and cheapest option; always try it first ... if it's not that, check all of the little linkages and the accelerator cable grub screw.
Welcome to the best little whorehouse in town; Sorry, I meant 'Panda Site'(y) .
 
But if the spark is there why wont it start? Would that be the vacuum advance unit?

Would it be posible to fit the Y10 dizzy that way you have electronic ignition?
 
katanauk said:
But if the spark is there why wont it start? Would that be the vacuum advance unit?

Would it be posible to fit the Y10 dizzy that way you have electronic ignition?
D'you know...I'd forgotten that not all Panda's have electronic ignition !
Silly me: That's what happens when you concentrate on one aspect alone.:(
 
Alan.D said:
If you took the carb appart and didn't replace all the gaskets it could cause problems, they also have a tendency to have faulty mixture adjust.

I'm confident we didn't mess up the carb. Although never done anything on a car one before we've stripped bike carbs, so not total novices. Total idiots maybe, but idiots with experience... makes all the difference ;) :p I also doubt it's the mixture - we've done 5000 miles in the car in the last 6 months, and the first 3,000 were completely trouble free, then downhill rapidly. I'm working on the assumption that a mixture issue would be a gradual thing (although feel free to correct me at any time as per above :eek: )

We've ordered that vacuum unit off e-bay, so will try that next.... watch this space :)
 
You can check the advance vacuumed by removing the pipe from the crab and while the engine is running sucking on the end of it (if your a dirty bugger like me :D) it its good your engine will increase revs and if its knackered you will just suck air through..
In saying that a dicky vacuumed wouldn't make is stall on the motorway, i drove to Bonn germany with a totally busted one (among other things hehee)...
 
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