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Old 21-01-2019   #1
Ohhh my, yes.
 
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Keyless entry theft footage

Hi all,

I know this has been talked about at length on this and other forums, but I thought I'd share this tweet from my local police team. It's the first time I've seen footage of a theft, and the method used, actually happening.

https://twitter.com/MPSHampton/statu...697803776?s=19
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Old 28-01-2019   #2
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Re: Keyless entry theft footage

This has been in the news this week. A bit worrying really, and the response from the manufacturers is predictably complacent.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47023003
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Old 29-01-2019   #3
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Re: Keyless entry theft footage

There was a programme on TV a couple of months ago about this subject and one manufacturer has come up with a solution to this, can't remember for certain but I think it was Mercedes, the keyless key has a movement sensor built and if it hasn't detected any movement for over 5 minutes is goes to sleep and stops transmitting altogether,it wakes up again as soon as it's moved .
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Old 29-01-2019   #4
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Re: Keyless entry theft footage

I know I'll get snorts of derision from certain members, but I've got to be honest: the more I hear about the latest cars, the more I'm glad I run an older, far less complex 1!!
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Old 31-01-2019   #5
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Re: Keyless entry theft footage

Quote Originally Posted by Michael Dranfield View Post
There was a programme on TV a couple of months ago about this subject and one manufacturer has come up with a solution to this, can't remember for certain but I think it was Mercedes, the keyless key has a movement sensor built and if it hasn't detected any movement for over 5 minutes is goes to sleep and stops transmitting altogether,it wakes up again as soon as it's moved .
Yes an ingenious solution and good idea.

It is a sad fact that manufacturers design all these smart systems but do not recruit exerts in art of destroying your idea. The smart key is an obvious example.
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Old 01-07-2019   #6
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Re: Keyless entry theft footage

Put the key in an aluminium box or RF safe wallet. It makes it less convenient and now totally pointless (rather than almost pointless) but the RF signals can't get past the Faraday cage so the car is safe(r).

How long before we see ways to remotely clone the RF security chip?
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Last edited by DaveMcT; 01-07-2019 at 10:30.
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Old 07-07-2019   #7
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Re: Keyless entry theft footage

Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post
Put the key in an aluminium box or RF safe wallet. It makes it less convenient and now totally pointless (rather than almost pointless) but the RF signals can't get past the Faraday cage so the car is safe(r).

How long before we see ways to remotely clone the RF security chip?
You will be surprised at how RF signals can "creep out" even from a closed tin.

If you choose to put your key in ANY shielding solution you should regularly check that it is actually working. I tried the tin box solution on my 500X keys and they still worked
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Old 16-07-2019   #8
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Re: Keyless entry theft footage

Disklok or something similar? I'm toying with the idea of a simple hidden switch cutting power to the fuel pump relay. Haven't really researched too deeply yet, anyone know if it's realistic?
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Old 22-07-2019   #9
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Re: Keyless entry theft footage

Yes it is realistic to think of alternative ways of nobling ones vehicle.

Fuel pump or starter solenoid would be my initial thoughts / targets.

Ideally one would not have to cut into and cable looms so a fuse box fuse extension/bypass would be a good and non damaging route to go.

However depending on the cars systems / body computer then it could be that a fuel pump or starter solenoid being open circuit will throw and error and turn on the MIL.

Could prove to be a trial and error approach and ensure you have the means to reset any fault codes.
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Old 24-07-2019   #10
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Re: Keyless entry theft footage

How's this for an alternative: you create a key, and install a coded chip in aforementioned key. You then design the car so that it can only be started by inserting that coded key into a mechanical switch...
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Old 31-07-2019   #11
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Re: Keyless entry theft footage

Quote Originally Posted by puntofan01 View Post
How's this for an alternative: you create a key, and install a coded chip in aforementioned key. You then design the car so that it can only be started by inserting that coded key into a mechanical switch...
It's no worse than an annoying START button in clear view but not especially convenient.

As for Faraday cages, a microwave is likely to be as good as it gets and keep it plugged in so the cage is earthed. It does annoying when you cook your porridge and forget to take your keys out.
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Old 04-08-2019   #12
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Re: Keyless entry theft footage

I've got to be honest, I just see all these keyless systems as the height of laziness tbh. Turning a key to start a car really isn't inconvenient, and I get the impression it's no less secure than the best keyless systems.
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Old 10-08-2019   #13
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Re: Keyless entry theft footage

Quote Originally Posted by puntofan01 View Post
I've got to be honest, I just see all these keyless systems as the height of laziness tbh. Turning a key to start a car really isn't inconvenient, and I get the impression it's no less secure than the best keyless systems.
Sort of agree with you. With my 500X I can turn key less entry off. I currently have it turned on with other protections in place.

One money and key fob reliability good point of key less entry is that you are not wearing out the key fob which will eventually suffer some form of button failure or case erosion for which Fiat will fleece your bank account for large sums of money
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Old 27-08-2019   #14
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Re: Keyless entry theft footage

Fiat Key fobs can be replaced cheaply. Just swap the contents and key blade to a new case.

The only safe answer to thefts is to use a steel safe for all keys. The metal case keeps them safe from remote radio theft and you (should) always know where they are.

Tesla have not really thought about it because they have minimised the interior so much there is nowhere to put the key card without it falling under a seat. So much for convenience.
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Old 28-08-2019   #15
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Re: Keyless entry theft footage

My key is now 11 years old: sure it looks a bit scruffy, but it still works perfectly.
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