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Old 28-04-2020   #1
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Power steering

Gearbox is now fixed but I have another problem. Didn't do it for the 60 mile trip driving home when I bought it. I've dropped the box and replaced bearing and put it all together. Now, it starts fine and the red light goes out, but as soon as you try and pull away and turn the steering goes heavy and the light comes on. Turn off and restart and it does the same thing.
Drive it with the steering heavy and go round the block and then restart and it clears it up and it then stays off.
Yet to check battery but could it be a slightly flat battery nearing it's end?
Or could it be the speed sensor... It did come apart while doing the gearbox and I put it back together. I read somewhere that it can effect the power steering?
Anyone know?
Battery reading is 12.7v now its okay
Will check tomorrow when it's been stood for a day.
Any help would be appreciated.
James.
Oh.... Its a 1.2 8v sport 2004
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Old 28-04-2020   #2
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Re: Power steering

Quote Originally Posted by Currymunster View Post
Yet to check battery but could it be a slightly flat battery nearing it's end?
Or could it be the speed sensor...
yes absolutely


Quote Originally Posted by Currymunster View Post
Battery reading is 12.7v now its okay
It has nothing to do with the voltage, and all to do with the current the battery can deliver.
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Old 29-04-2020   #3
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Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
yes absolutely




It has nothing to do with the voltage, and all to do with the current the battery can deliver.
24 hours later and I've checked the battery. Got 12.41v and half hour later after centrally locking and unlocking I got 12.31v.
Starts absolutely perfectly. Drove it about a mile and then on a straight road the light came on and lost the power steering.
Stopped and restarted and it was fine and it didn't happen again.
I assume that this means the battery is
Not holding charge and causing the steering issue.
Any thoughts?
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Old 30-04-2020   #4
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Re: Power steering

I had this with mine, light came on, steering went heavy, turning the ignition off and on cleared it for a while. Seemed to occur more when hitting full lock.
Happened less after an alternator change, then not happened since I changed to a new battery (about 6 months between Alternator and Battery replacements).
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Old 30-04-2020   #5
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Re: Power steering

Welcome to my world. I have another thread on here and after it rained yesterday the steering went mad again for a while. I'm convinced it's water dripping through the scuttle onto wires/connectors/earth points underneath as that section of firewall padding was wet. I'm buggered if I know where though and would welcome input!
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Old 30-04-2020   #6
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Re: Power steering

I don't think it is the battery. Check the gear box earth for example - you just did the gearbox and never noticed the problem before.


Can you monitor the battery voltage while you are driving the car? Volts is relevant. If you have the volts you should be able to supply the current. Attempting to supply the current without a a good battery or good wiring will drop the voltage.

Measuring volts is sufficient to find out what is happening.
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Old 30-04-2020   #7
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Re: Power steering

Quote Originally Posted by markdarbypearson View Post
Welcome to my world. I have another thread on here and after it rained yesterday the steering went mad again for a while. I'm convinced it's water dripping through the scuttle onto wires/connectors/earth points underneath as that section of firewall padding was wet. I'm buggered if I know where though and would welcome input!
Have you cleaned out the duck bills, these are two rubbery/plastic funnels that let the water out from the scuttle. They fill with leaves and muck. I do mine every time I fill up with windscreen wash.
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Old 30-04-2020   #8
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Quote Originally Posted by nitramtpr View Post
Have you cleaned out the duck bills, these are two rubbery/plastic funnels that let the water out from the scuttle. They fill with leaves and muck. I do mine every time I fill up with windscreen wash.
Yep all clean. The bottom of the funnels open towards the dash? I suppose I could twist them round to face the engine to stop the cloth cover getting wet?
I'm a bit sick of all this faff. The steering is failing totally randomly when it's under load, when it's not, when it's wet weather more, sometimes feeling like it's going to fail getting slightly stiffer and not, then feeling light as a feather the bang and gone again!!!!
It checks out voltage wise and I've replaced the neg battery earth lead to wing and gearbox etc.
Just thinking now to sod it and buy a new column while they're only 68 quid 😠😡🙄
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Old 02-05-2020   #9
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Re: Power steering

Hi everyone, thanks for all your input.
My neigbough has a delphi scan package which we connected but couldn't access the eps. According to their website it will read eps codes... Does anyone know how?
Battery tested with a sealy tester at 12.3v today and 14.4v when started and charging.
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Old 02-05-2020   #10
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Quote Originally Posted by Currymunster View Post
Battery tested with a sealy tester at 12.3v today and 14.4v when started and charging.
Was it a ďdrop testerĒ basically a tester that puts a big resistor across the terminals of the battery to measure how the battery responds to high loads, high loads like the power steering for example.

Iíve had this exact fault on two different cars. Each time itís a new battery that fixed it, or for a while reconditioning the battery.

The power steering will draw a huge current when in use and if anything in the system shoe weakness the power steering switches off
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Old 02-05-2020   #11
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Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
Was it a ďdrop testerĒ basically a tester that puts a big resistor across the terminals of the battery to measure how the battery responds to high loads, high loads like the power steering for example.

Iíve had this exact fault on two different cars. Each time itís a new battery that fixed it, or for a while reconditioning the battery.

The power steering will draw a huge current when in use and if anything in the system shoe weakness the power steering switches off
I though it was going to be the drop tester but when he showed up with it it was just a analogue needle showing the voltage. No different to my multimeter.
I did drive to kwik fit but their machine was broken. I can't think of anyone else who has one.
Going to try the delphi software again today. I believe it's a delphi steering system as well.
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Old 02-05-2020   #12
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Re: Power steering

Hey,
After a while looking at the delphi program I managed to find an intelligent scan. Did that and two codes came up
C1005 - torque sensor
9009??

The guy with the program seems to think that having the battery off for 7 days may have caused the problem.
Cleared the codes and test drove with no problems. Did another scan and nothing.
I hope he is right but I'm pretty sure a slightly low battery would not cause the torque sensor to throw a code.... Would it?
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Old 02-05-2020   #13
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Re: Power steering

Well you have two possible problems, a low battery has caused the eps to throw an incorrect value, which is perfectly possible. Or the torque sensor needs replacing.

You can change the battery (last battery I got for my mk2 was £38) or you can go straight to changing the torque sensor which is considerably more expensive and a lot more work.

If you can get a known good battery ok loan from another car then you can eliminate the battery from the equation.

Despite having read some codes youíre not actually any better off at this point.

If you had a copy of MES then you can do things like watch the battery voltage while you steer the car from lock to lock. You can also watch the output from the position sensor to see whatís going on there.

At the moment youíve not really achieved anything. The very least I would do is get the current battery on a good charger and top up the water. Make sure the battery is as good as possible and then see if or how long the error takes to come back.
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Old 03-05-2020   #14
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Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
Well you have two possible problems, a low battery has caused the eps to throw an incorrect value, which is perfectly possible. Or the torque sensor needs replacing.

You can change the battery (last battery I got for my mk2 was £38) or you can go straight to changing the torque sensor which is considerably more expensive and a lot more work.

If you can get a known good battery ok loan from another car then you can eliminate the battery from the equation.

Despite having read some codes youíre not actually any better off at this point.

If you had a copy of MES then you can do things like watch the battery voltage while you steer the car from lock to lock. You can also watch the output from the position sensor to see whatís going on there.

At the moment youíve not really achieved anything. The very least I would do is get the current battery on a good charger and top up the water. Make sure the battery is as good as possible and then see if or how long the error takes to come back.
I agree with all you've said. However I did get to watch the voltage while going lock to lock. It dropped to 13.4v fire a split second when you start to steer. After that it seems to maintain at 13.8v to 14v and Settles back to 14 2 with no steering.
Thanks so far
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Old 03-05-2020   #15
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Re: Power steering

Quote Originally Posted by Currymunster View Post
I agree with all you've said. However I did get to watch the voltage while going lock to lock. It dropped to 13.4v fire a split second when you start to steer. After that it seems to maintain at 13.8v to 14v and Settles back to 14 2 with no steering.
Thanks so far
The important voltage is not the battery voltage but instead the voltage at the motor and electronics. Any resistances in the wires or connections can cause loss of power. There is a dedicated large earth for the power steering coming directly off the battery.


You could do a voltage test between the positive terminal and the power steering fuse with a wire jammed into the fuse to get some idea of potential voltage drops as you operate the power steering. So you measure voltage on the same wire and its connections but you look for the drop in voltage when the large load of the power steering is placed on the far end of the wiring. With no load you will always get very near the battery voltage when you measure very far from the battery, but once a load is on the wire then if there are resistances you can get significant voltage drops along the length of the wire and its connections.

The power steering current is a very large 70-90 amps sometimes. The power steering can probably manage with about 11 volts at the power steering motor where you would have 2-3 volts lost in the wiring if the battery voltage is 13 volts.

Potentially a very good looking wire can be defective with built up internal resistances and resistances between the connector and the wire. Checking for voltage drops along the length of the wire is an easy way to find these very hidden faults.
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Last edited by judderbar; 03-05-2020 at 10:59.
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