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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #1
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Fiat Punto 1.2 (2002)Hotwire start problem

Hi

I am a new member just joined today ...so forgive me if I miss some things or ask some wrong questions..

I own Fiat Punto 1.2 that failed its MOT sometime ago and I have fallen on some difficult times to pay to repair or pay for repairs etc ....(Its a long complex story)

So I Sorned the Car and was initially lucky to find somewhere to park it on some private land... It was there some months and remained OK until eventually It was broken into and someone had attempted to hotwire it ...after they pulled away a dash board on the drivers side and had somehow parted two wires... that come from the ignition lock and appear to go under the dashboard/ fusebox...
They also seemed to have broken some other various wires that connected from the dash fusebox that I believe were lighting wires that I later have tried to reconnect together and think overall that I have managed to do that OK.

I dont know a lot about cars...Just some basic stuff...but I believe thatI have some fair understanding on certain things..

So I made some enquiries with some local mechanics after I had taken some photos of the situation and was given some varied advice...

One main thing I was told was that they could not had started the car without the Key... and I had also disconnected the battery when I had left the car after Sorning and parking it.

I tried a few things to atempt to restart the car and reconnect some wires etc
but the car will not seem to start just by the use of the key once I connected the battery...BUT I can see the dash board light up...so something still seem to work ok..

Its just that the car wont start and the started Motor wont react when I turn the Ignition key..

I was told to test the started motor by using a wire connected to the positive terminal of the battery and touching it on the starter motor terminals.... when I tried this It did react at least appearing to react or turn once ... but its difficult to get the wire onto the starter motor terminals as its in a very awkward place and hard to reach at last for me...

It was also mentioned to me that the car Key has a chip(for a KEYCODE ) that is needed to start the car...and as I was unable to get the car to start it was suggested that I replace the keycode ...

As I have no Spare money...I am unable to pay for any parts etc at the moment..
and now I have been asked to move the car by the land owner...

I later was able to speak with someone who claimed to be a ex mechanic who said he also used to steal cars...and hotwire them...to me that the car could be hotwired and that who ever had tried to hotwire it had done it wrong as the delt with two wires near the front of the ignition lock..and he told me that they should have delt with the wires that come out the back of the ignition lock..

although he told me some things later for some reason he later decied not to do the thing for me....(There were some further things we had later discussed and later he had to go on a call out.. so I was not able to complete doing the thing he decirbed with him... at the time..)

when I look at the IG lock... I see that it is in two parts...

One part is 3 wires... one brown and one Red...and one orange..that seem to go under the dash board and I think go to the starter motor..

the other part has Blue wires that seem to go back onto the ig lock or somewhere near it...

I am not sure if maybe it also connects to a Relay....

I managed to find a start and charging diagram online for the Punto
but as its my 1st post I cannot add a direct link..but hopefully can add an image..

unfortunately It does not show a KEY for the other component Numbers and Wire colours ..

such as the small box numbers such as 31 , 15, 19.... I assume 2 and 3 in the small white box (on Ignition ( NUMBER 4 in small black box)) refer to connect up to Start Motor and Alternator



This shows the components and wires etc ...where the Battery is as No 1, Starter Motor No 2, Alternator No 3, , Ignition Lock No 4 ,Engine Fuse Box No 5,

the main wires that I refer to are shown from the Ignition as R, M and A

R = Red , M = Brown, A = Blue

It appears to me when you look at the ignition switch that when you turn the key... it connects the RED and BRown wire together and this then seem to relate to the Starter Motor...thru the Engine fusebox..

But I am not really sure what the blue wire does and the orange wire is not shown on the diagram from what I can see...

I wondered if anyone may be familiar with this and if they think it maybe possible to say connect some off these wires to try and start it and bypass the actual keycode lock...or basically Hotwire it...

any advice would be greatly appreciated ..

By any chance is there any copies of the Haynes manual for the wire diagrams on this forum.. on a quick search I could not find any..

At the moment I will not consent to use Yahoo after they changed their rules on data protection etc....
I noted that if I search on how can I hotwire a Fiat this came up...

I wonder if anyone who will use yahoo if maybe they could post the answer to what they say. or suggest if no one else can offer any advice.....

Quote Quote:
how to hotwire a fiat? | Yahoo Answers

https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/questio...3190314AAsStnn
23/06/2010 Best Answer: Hotwiring the car is the easy part. There is a large 4 pin square connector on a pigtail from the ignition switch. With a test light or voltmeter, identify the hot wire from the battery, The 3 remaining large wires are ACC, IGN and start.

Thank you
Puntog
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Last edited by Puntog; 3 Weeks Ago at 23:16.
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Re: Fiat Punto 1.2 (2002)Hotwire start problem

Assume you charged the battery as the car has not been used for months?

The small box numbers such as 31 , 15, 19 are terminal numbers for the components.
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Re: Fiat Punto 1.2 (2002)Hotwire start problem

You cannot hotwire a 2002 fiat punto so it will start and you can drive away unless you bring your own electronic ignition system with you and you change some of the sensors. So forget it. Nobody is going to bother for an old punto.

The key has a code and the punto is a computerised car that requires that key code.

The wire to cause the starter to turn is a small wire which also causes the starter gear to fly forwards and contact the engine.

From what you say so far you are a very long way from knowing how to start this very old car and it is already damaged by vandals.

Cars cost money but are somewhat better than a boat which is a hole in the water you throw money into (apparently)
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Last edited by judderbar; 3 Weeks Ago at 15:12.
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Re: Fiat Punto 1.2 (2002)Hotwire start problem

Quote Originally Posted by Puntog View Post
Hi
They also seemed to have broken some other various wires that connected from the dash fusebox that I believe were lighting wires that I later have tried to reconnect together and think overall that I have managed to do that OK.

Its just that the car wont start and the started Motor wont react when I turn the Ignition key.
What lights up on the panel when you turn the ignition key?
Can you provide a picture of how you reconnected the cables?



Quote Originally Posted by Puntog View Post
I was told to test the started motor by using a wire connected to the positive terminal of the battery and touching it on the starter motor terminals.... when I tried this It did react at least appearing to react or turn once ... but its difficult to get the wire onto the starter motor terminals as its in a very awkward place and hard to reach at last for me...
Puntog
It is hard to access it. And that idea, is not a safe one, if you can't get propper access to the terminals, and have a live cable to the battery with you. Scratch that.
You are right in that the Red and Brow wires turn the starter engine.

If you want to test the starter motor, connect the Red and Brow Wires that go into the ignition switch. You can just use a cable to wire them together in the terminals. This will turn on the starter motor, but the engine will not turn on (it requires a KEYCODE). The started motor doesn't require the keycode to turn on. The only wires involved in making the started motor turn on are those 2.
If with this the starter doesn't work, check the battery voltage? Check the fuse F3 in the engine compartment box.

Apart from the wires that connect in the back of the ignition barrel, there are 2 small wires that go into an antenna that's around the ignition. This antena is responsible for reading the Keycode from the transponder in your key, and without it the start motor will turn, but the Engine ECU will not turn on the engine.


Check battery is charged, check that Red and Brown make the start motor turn, then check that everything is connected/rewired properly.
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Re: Fiat Punto 1.2 (2002)Hotwire start problem

Hi Davren..

Thks for comfirming numbers.

I did charge the battery before I attempted to restart the car.

Although the battery is an old one and would struggle to hold its charge if I try to use it to much or if it was in Winter Months....

As I am unsure what may happen I did not want to have to buy another battery if I can get away using my present one that does show some charge for now. that I think should be acceptable..
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Re: Fiat Punto 1.2 (2002)Hotwire start problem

Thks for your reply Judderbar.

I assume you made a couple of slight typo errors and meant to say that the car WILL NOT start and I CANNOT drive it away unless I have a seperate Elect Ignition system / sensors.

That was what I was initially told by a few other persons I spoke with ..
(ie some other mechanics)

But the Ex Car theif suggested different... so I am not fully sure..

At the moment I cannot aford to repair it , but If I can start it... I can at least drive it to another location even if just temporary... unless I find another suitable place to put it..

I tried to ask my local council where I am legally allowed to park it and they said only on Private land...where I need to ask permission..

But at one time some months ago when I had asked the council they did initially offer to give me some locations where I had the right to park that did not seem private land.... but since then they now have changed their view on doing that or recommending anywhere....

It seems Big Brother Now owns all the highway and will fine us if we park in almost any part of a public type road or place...

I think at one time you were allowed to park in some locations that may had been seen as public...

it seems a sign of the time we now live in unfortujately....

Quote Originally Posted by judderbar View Post
You cannot hotwire a 2002 fiat punto so it will start and you can drive away unless you bring your own electronic ignition system with you and you change some of the sensors. So forget it. Nobody is going to bother for an old punto.

The key has a code and the punto is a computerised car that requires that key code.

The wire to cause the starter to turn is a small wire which also causes the starter gear to fly forwards and contact the engine.

From what you say so far you are a very long way from knowing how to start this very old car and it is already damaged by vandals.

Cars cost money but are somewhat better than a boat which is a hole in the water you throw money into (apparently)
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Re: Fiat Punto 1.2 (2002)Hotwire start problem

Thks for your reply Judderbar.

I assume you made a couple of slight typo errors and meant to say that the car WILL NOT start and I CANNOT drive it away unless I have a seperate Elect Ignition system / sensors.

That was what I was initially told by a few other persons I spoke with ..
(ie some other mechanics)

But the Ex Car theif suggested different... so I am not fully sure..

At the moment I cannot aford to repair it , but If I can start it... I can at least drive it to another location even if just temporary... unless I find another suitable place to put it..

I tried to ask my local council where I am legally allowed to park it and they said only on Private land...where I need to ask permission..

But at one time some months ago when I had asked the council they did initially offer to give me some locations where I had the right to park that did not seem private land.... but since then they now have changed their view on doing that or recommending anywhere....

It seems Big Brother Now owns all the highway and will fine us if we park in almost any part of a public type road or place...

I think at one time you were allowed to park in some locations that may had been seen as public...

it seems a sign of the time we now live in unfortunately....

Quote Originally Posted by judderbar View Post
You cannot hotwire a 2002 fiat punto so it will start and you can drive away unless you bring your own electronic ignition system with you and you change some of the sensors. So forget it. Nobody is going to bother for an old punto.

The key has a code and the punto is a computerised car that requires that key code.

The wire to cause the starter to turn is a small wire which also causes the starter gear to fly forwards and contact the engine.

From what you say so far you are a very long way from knowing how to start this very old car and it is already damaged by vandals.

Cars cost money but are somewhat better than a boat which is a hole in the water you throw money into (apparently)
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Re: Fiat Punto 1.2 (2002)Hotwire start problem

Hi Crankshaft,

Again Thank you for your reply...

I think most if not all the main expected lights will show up on the dash panel..
or visual display...at least at some stage when I had turned the key...
but it does not alway light the various items when I turn the key...
for some reason its not always constent that turning the key will show the lighted dash panel....I assume due to some sort of connection problem...

I have taken some photos and may be able to post some... but that maybe in a few days when I am able to do so...(I can only make a breif reply for now and will need to set up / transfer the photos onto another device onto my Hard drive )

Thanks for confirming that Red and Brown Wires will connect and possibly start Motor and how better to go about it...

I hope to try it..

If It does need keycode.... then I have to assume that somehow that part is damaged in some way...

IF I place the key in the ignition and turn.. and also atttempted to connect the Red and Brown wire as you describe... I am not sure if they could still possibly fire the engine also somehow ..

But it maybe that the wiring needed for the Keycode or what ever it is that is required is just somehow damaged..and it just wont start unless either the wires are repaired or the keycode is replaced..

I have checked the fuses...and they seem ALL OK.. including F3 in engine fusebox.

those other two wires... I can see at the front end of the ignition.. and I have had to reconnect them as they had been broke...

what I am NOT sure is exactly where those wires go to... when it seems to come from a series of wires that seem to come from the inner fusebox (or underneath the Fusebox)

the wiring around and from the Fusebox seems very complex... but I had at some stage attempted to track the main branch that those two wires seem to come from..
The were put in what seems a thicker black outer cable mixed with a series of other thinner varied color wires. the Black thicker cable seperates those particular wires.

There is also one other wire that is broke that seems in a Clear type coating...
that I cannot find the other half to... it just sticks out from another branch of wires but has NO other half showing as to where I could connect back to...

its a mystery to me as to what it is..

Maybe that is some sort of seperate antanna..

What you describe about the Keycode part seems maybe where my problem maybe and you seem to describe it well...

Generally if its a Keycode problem... then I think that is beyond my abilities.. and maybe most peoples unless one is trained in that particular area..

Many thanks again.... for you detailed reply and all others who have replied...

Quote Originally Posted by crankshaft View Post
What lights up on the panel when you turn the ignition key?
Can you provide a picture of how you reconnected the cables?

It is hard to access it. And that idea, is not a safe one, if you can't get propper access to the terminals, and have a live cable to the battery with you. Scratch that.
You are right in that the Red and Brow wires turn the starter engine.

If you want to test the starter motor, connect the Red and Brow Wires that go into the ignition switch. You can just use a cable to wire them together in the terminals. This will turn on the starter motor, but the engine will not turn on (it requires a KEYCODE). The started motor doesn't require the keycode to turn on. The only wires involved in making the started motor turn on are those 2.
If with this the starter doesn't work, check the battery voltage? Check the fuse F3 in the engine compartment box.

Apart from the wires that connect in the back of the ignition barrel, there are 2 small wires that go into an antenna that's around the ignition. This antena is responsible for reading the Keycode from the transponder in your key, and without it the start motor will turn, but the Engine ECU will not turn on the engine.


Check battery is charged, check that Red and Brown make the start motor turn, then check that everything is connected/rewired properly.
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Re: Fiat Punto 1.2 (2002)Hotwire start problem

Quote Originally Posted by Puntog View Post
Thks for your reply Judderbar.

I assume you made a couple of slight typo errors and meant to say that the car WILL NOT start and I CANNOT drive it away unless I have a seperate Elect Ignition system / sensors.
Sorry. Yes it will not start.

If the keycode is the problem then you will have the padlock light on after the other test lights have gone out. I am thinking that you dont have that light and you are just thinking it is the problem??

With the keycode light on the starter motor will still operate. So if you have no light the first step is to work out where the simple electrics for the starter are broken.
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Last edited by judderbar; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:29.
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Re: Fiat Punto 1.2 (2002)Hotwire start problem

Thks for confirming Car will NOT "Start" based on what you meant to describe or say.

I dont think that I noticed any padlock light on the dash panel...
BUT there are a series of lights and things that I am not really sure what they mean..
and will have to try to check.

When the Ex Car thief had a quick look at my car and the dash panel when he suggested that he believed that he could hotwire it...

I did initially say to him that I believed that the keycode was why it would not start...
but he still seemed keen that he could get around it..

then later he did refer to some light on the dash panel and said that I needed to ensure that some wires that I had been looking and messing with (and he also started messing with them and I think maybe messed some up for me..but since I believe that I have reconnected back correctly and now seems ok..apart from maybe one or two that could be questionable...(I think one may have been some small orange or yellow dot type light that has appeared) The poblem is the ignition process and various lights on the panel is a LOT for someone like me to try to observe and recall so many details... it can seem a bit complex...maybe I need a series of photos or a video to show up what can be seen on the dash panel and the process when I try to turn the ignition with the key as to what happens on the dash panel ) that I had pulled out of the inner fusebox at the time were put back correct to make sure some light would disappear.. so it could have been one or similar to what you describe..

IF I recall he did refer to there being 3 turns on the ignition ...from the initial key entry position... to first turn and 2nd further turn that then springs back...

and he mentioned that specifically as being important....in how the rear wires of the ignition would have to be linked somehow to get it to start..

So I dont know if he may have meant that all 3 wires need to connect rather than just the two (RED / BROWN that do start the starter motor) where the 3rd wire is orange....

Last night I did attempt to bridge the brown and red wire and I did hear the starter motor or something (maybe solinoid ) react .../ click.. but it did not continually stay on to rotate the motor for more than what seemed one click or rotation..

I also noted the the other wires (2nd set of wires from the rear of the ignition lock. which contained light blue wires (I think 4 wires in total some other colors)) that they show the dash panel light up...

I tried to reconnect all the wire brackets back in place and to connect the brown / red wire and then turn the key but it did not start it.

I also mentioned another broken wire... that I said was in a clear coating that I could not find the other half to.. (THAT is also in a out WHITE casing...)

But I think was connected to another set of wires that maybe also that connect to various lights... front or rear ones... similar to what those other wires in the blacl outer cable I think connect to some lighting...



Quote Originally Posted by judderbar View Post
Sorry. Yes it will not start.

If the keycode is the problem then you will have the padlock light on after the other test lights have gone out. I am thinking that you dont have that light and you are just thinking it is the problem??

With the keycode light on the starter motor will still operate. So if you have no light the first step is to work out where the simple electrics for the starter are broken.
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Re: Fiat Punto 1.2 (2002)Hotwire start problem

Quote Originally Posted by Puntog View Post
Last night I did attempt to bridge the brown and red wire and I did hear the starter motor or something (maybe solinoid ) react .../ click.. but it did not continually stay on to rotate the motor for more than what seemed one click or rotation.
Typical symptom of an insufficiently charged battery.
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Re: Fiat Punto 1.2 (2002)Hotwire start problem

The battery may hold a charge BUT not have enough amps to turn the starter motor over..and hence the big old lump of the motor...

A battery has really got to be your first investment.

Whereabouts in the UK are you?
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Re: Fiat Punto 1.2 (2002)Hotwire start problem

It maybe possible that the battery is not up to it..as I agree it is old..

BUT usualy (or always in the past ) in the past when I have charged it...
it has been sufficient to start it...

When I did the test.. and connected the wires within the plastic wire connectors that
hold the red and brown wire...

I used a piece or wire to push into the holes to connect the metal part of the terminal or R/B wires..... BUT.. it maybe that I have not really managed to connect in a way to get a good enough connection to make the motor continue to rotate...

I could NOT find a easy way to disconnect the Brown / red wire from the plastic terminal to make a good solid connection...

so in the end I just pushed the wire into each hole that held the B/Rwires and bridged it...where I could see sparking taking place...

I will be honest the wire I used to connect I dont realy know what its resitance is, but it seems a similar thickness and similar wire to the two I connected...

I may try again to see if I can take the wires out of the plastic terminal..

I did manage to open some part on the terminal that allowed me to see other holes where maybe I could find a way to place a suitable tool like a thin screwdriver that may allow me to force the wires out of the plastic teminal somehow..
or maybe its possible to pull the wires out if given enough pull or force..

but I could not se any easy way to disconnect the wires out of the plastic terminal...
the wires did not seem screwed in like wires are in a house type plug..where you could unscrew to remove them..

so the bridge was a way to at least get the metal parts connected if at least just to have a quick test to see if the motor would rotate ...

I live in the NW Lancashire area...but can not afford to pay..
or maybe its not worth paying very much..

as alternatively the scrap yard will only offer me 100 GBP max !..

but I think the engine alone is worth that....as the engine although old was very good when it ran...as well as other parts. for its age.

Its a Fiat Punto Sports model..1.2..and it did run very well...
and thats why I really want to try to repair it again if I can get back into work or obtain the money to do so...





Quote Quote:
Typical symptom of an insufficiently charged battery.

Quote Originally Posted by nikrox View Post
The battery may hold a charge BUT not have enough amps to turn the starter motor over..and hence the big old lump of the motor...

A battery has really got to be your first investment.

Whereabouts in the UK are you?
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Re: Fiat Punto 1.2 (2002)Hotwire start problem

Can anyone advise how to take the wires out of the plastic terminals..

Do they just pull out or does one need to prise them out by a small screwdriver ?



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Re: Fiat Punto 1.2 (2002)Hotwire start problem

Quote Originally Posted by Puntog View Post
Can anyone advise how to take the wires out of the plastic terminals..

Do they just pull out or does one need to prise them out by a small screwdriver ?
The metal terminals are usually held into their plastic housings by a small barb on the back of the terminal. Push a small screwdriver into the back of the housing to flatten the barb, then pull the wire and terminal out.

Don't forget to raise the barb before refitting the terminal into the housing.
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2002 fiat punto wont start Jason moore Newbie Central 0 20-01-2013 17:54
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(G) 2002 51 Reg FIAT Punto 1.2 HEATHER PROBLEM!!!!!! Prime Punto (Mk2/2b) 2 01-03-2007 13:23