Register Login
FIAT Auto Specialist Team
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-09-2021   #1
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Cross 1.3 not starting

Hi,

Went to start my 2010 Panda 1.3 diesel cross yesterday after leaving it for about 30 minutes after 30 mile drive and initially it woudn't start. Engine span over fine, and at a good rate, but no attempt made by engine to fire. Took key out then replaced it and eventually it fired (key reference may be irrelevant). Once fired it idled and revved as it should. Got some more diesel (tank was 1/4 full but has been filled in previous week. Once again, initial reluctance to fire but did after a few attempts and ran fine. Later that day, engine cooled off, fired up fine. After about 5 miles engine light (orange one with rubbish pictogram of engine) came on though no change to engine. Finished journey which involved some long waiting in queres. Once home, stopped engine and started it gain, which it did, albeit with engine light still on. Went to see if it would start today andd guess what - no joys. Spins over fine after waiting for glow plug light to extinguish as per. Not even the slightests sign of life. On sticking my finger up the exhaust there was no evidence to suggest any unburnt fuel, just the usual black soot.

I have a nasty feeling it might be injector related but no idea. Mileage is now 68k.

Any thoughts out their?

Regards,

Mick
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

rmn is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 11-09-2021   #2
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,641
Thanks: 392
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross 1.3 not starting

Quote Originally Posted by rmn View Post
Hi,

Went to start my 2010 Panda 1.3 diesel cross yesterday after leaving it for about 30 minutes after 30 mile drive and initially it woudn't start. Engine span over fine, and at a good rate, but no attempt made by engine to fire. Took key out then replaced it and eventually it fired (key reference may be irrelevant). Once fired it idled and revved as it should. Got some more diesel (tank was 1/4 full but has been filled in previous week. Once again, initial reluctance to fire but did after a few attempts and ran fine. Later that day, engine cooled off, fired up fine. After about 5 miles engine light (orange one with rubbish pictogram of engine) came on though no change to engine. Finished journey which involved some long waiting in queres. Once home, stopped engine and started it gain, which it did, albeit with engine light still on. Went to see if it would start today andd guess what - no joys. Spins over fine after waiting for glow plug light to extinguish as per. Not even the slightests sign of life. On sticking my finger up the exhaust there was no evidence to suggest any unburnt fuel, just the usual black soot.

I have a nasty feeling it might be injector related but no idea. Mileage is now 68k.

Any thoughts out their?

Regards,

Mick
Read the code
Read the code
Read the code


without this information we are diagnosing in the dark



you could try disconnecting the MAF sensor
Likes jimboy liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by koalar; 11-09-2021 at 20:50.
koalar is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 11-09-2021   #3
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: highlands
Posts: 3,656
Thanks: 189
Trader Rating: 0
jimboy has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross 1.3 not starting

Yep, getting the codes read is the way to go.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

jimboy is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 12-09-2021   #4
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,551
Thanks: 902
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross 1.3 not starting

A blocked fuel filter will do this, but so will a failing crank sensor. Read the codes anyway.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

DaveMcT is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 12-09-2021   #5
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 938
Thanks: 82
Trader Rating: 0
irc has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross 1.3 not starting

Also failing earth lead, and (more rarely) failing starter. Have seen both, with and without codes, but reading codes is definitely good first step.

(I have a 55 plate MJ at the moment with a slightly weak starter motor. No codes ever show up, but sometimes it takes 3 or 4 attempts to start. If you listen carefully you can just hear the difference in cranking speed between when it is going to start, and when it isn't. Both sound OK on their own, but noticeable when you know to listen for it.
I definitely WILL get round to swapping the starter at some point... deep joy.)
__________________
irc
irc is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 12-09-2021   #6
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,551
Thanks: 902
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross 1.3 not starting

Quote Originally Posted by irc View Post
I definitely WILL get round to swapping the starter at some point... deep joy.)
I feel your pain. Now the nights are closing in, I've noticed my alternator is struggling to keep above 13.5 volts. The other night it dropped to 12.5 when I parked. Its always been up around 14.2 volts but not any more. It's done 120,000 so an alternator is on order and Im resigned to grovelling under the car (again) and fighting with (easy to fit in the factory) bolts but are near impossible on the car.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

DaveMcT is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 12-09-2021   #7
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross 1.3 not starting

Ok, so I should read the code I think is the message? Having just consulted Mr Google I see these tools are not as pricey as I feared. Any suggestions / recomendations for a good diagnostic tool at a reasonable price - bearing in mind it won't (hopefully) be used everyday?

Regards,

Mick
Thanks koalar thanked for this post
Likes koalar liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

rmn is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 12-09-2021   #8
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Near the M4
Posts: 29,266
Thanks: 1155
Trader Rating: 0
varesecrazy has donated!
United Kingdom 
Quote Originally Posted by rmn View Post
Ok, so I should read the code I think is the message? Having just consulted Mr Google I see these tools are not as pricey as I feared. Any suggestions / recomendations for a good diagnostic tool at a reasonable price - bearing in mind it won't (hopefully) be used everyday?

Regards,

Mick
Look on the forums User Register

As MultiECUScan is £60 well spent

Charlie
Thanks rmjbn1 thanked for this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

varesecrazy is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 12-09-2021   #9
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,551
Thanks: 902
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross 1.3 not starting

If you have a Window laptop, you can use www.multiecuscan.net. You will need an adapter cable but they are similar cost to generic code readers. Download and install the software before plugging in a cable. The paid version does more stuff as you will see from their website.

I have these connectors which work fine
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281712496622
Thanks rmjbn1 thanked for this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by DaveMcT; 12-09-2021 at 16:08.
DaveMcT is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 12-09-2021   #10
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,641
Thanks: 392
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross 1.3 not starting

scanner vary

basic only reads the engine

reads engine and gives live data number

reads engine and plots live data

reads engine, body, dash, abs, eps and so on plus plots data with different cables or a switch with a computer

multiplexed interface. Does all the above automatically with a computer

multiplexed stand alone

as you go up the tree the more expensive they get

just to read the codes a £10-£15 scanner will do the job. I have one. Really quick and easy to use. I have one like this that does the job.

more useful if you are going to do other work on your car is one that plots data

I know nothing about this scanner ThinkOBD 100 but can be had for around £25

if you have a windows laptop already a k-line cable or ELM USB cable and the free multiecuscan will work for under £10. Multiecuscan is limited to Fait (ish) cars
Thanks rmjbn1 thanked for this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by koalar; 12-09-2021 at 22:52.
koalar is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-09-2021   #11
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,641
Thanks: 392
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross 1.3 not starting

for a very simple scanner. Just to read and clear engine codes

the Autel MS 300 is known to work

https://www.fiatforum.com/newbie-cen...ml#post4194679
Thanks rmjbn1 thanked for this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by koalar; 13-09-2021 at 01:59.
koalar is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-09-2021   #12
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: West Clare
Posts: 567
Thanks: 109
Trader Rating: 0
rmjbn1 has donated!
Ireland 
Re: Cross 1.3 not starting

Just as a word of warning, I recently got one of these cheap bluetooth ELM 327 interfaces for £8 to use with MultiECUscan but had to give up as it won't connect.

Name:  Bluetooth-ELM-327.jpg
Views: 50
Size:  10.3 KB
I've seen YouTube videos (including our own PuntoHowTo channel) where they work fine, but I wouldn't be able to recommend them. Maybe a wired USB version might be more reliable? Personally I would go for the ones linked by DaveMcT above as a number of forum users have reported they're reliable.

MultiECUscan looks great, but it's certainly not plug & play. You may need to invest some time fiddling with COM port settings for bit rate and buffer speed to get it to work.

It's all explained in the MES user guide, but you'll need to be certain you have a reliable OBDII interface.

My 1.2 petrol recently had a failed crankshaft sensor (fault code P0335) which caused similar starting issues to those you've described @rmn. They're less than £20 and one bolt and a plug to swap. But mine was also abruptly stalling, so might not be the same cause.

I'd agree with above, it's best to get fault codes read before blindly swapping parts.

Last edited by rmjbn1; 13-09-2021 at 13:15.
rmjbn1 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-09-2021   #13
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Norfolk UK
Posts: 11,795
Thanks: 583
Blog Entries: 8
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Quote Originally Posted by rmjbn1 View Post
Just as a word of warning, I recently got one of these cheap bluetooth ELM 327 interfaces for £8 to use with MultiECUscan but had to give up as it won't connect.

Attachment 220243
Have you tried here
http://forum.multiecuscan.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1493

Appreciate I got mine nearly 10 years ago now but itís still going strong and has this exact problem where I had to lift that component for it to work
Thanks rmjbn1 thanked for this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

AndyRKett is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-09-2021   #14
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: West Clare
Posts: 567
Thanks: 109
Trader Rating: 0
rmjbn1 has donated!
Ireland 
Re: Cross 1.3 not starting

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
Hi Andy, thanks for the reply (and the video)

Yes, I have tried that, even though my problem wasn't limited to CAN connection. MES couldn't connect with my ELM 327 at all (even though the ELM 327 showed connected as bluetooth OBDII device on my Win10 laptop).

I opened up my ELM 327 and inside it's nothing like the one in that thread - the circuit board is much smaller, no sign of that offending 120 Ohm resistor:
Click image for larger version

Name:	BT ELM 327.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	875.0 KB
ID:	220252
I've been through everything I can think of with g8rpi over on the 500 section here: https://www.fiatforum.com/500/476360...ml#post4607158

Maybe just some of the cheap interfaces work and some don't? I can't be 100% certain it's a hardware issue yet as I haven't been able to try it with a reliable interface.

Last edited by rmjbn1; 13-09-2021 at 16:50.
rmjbn1 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-09-2021   #15
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 156
Thanks: 13
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Cross 1.3 not starting

One thing I would try before anything else is see if
the anti vacuum valve in the fuel cap is stuck it maybe
due to cars not running as much but I have come across
this 2 or 3 times in the last year never seen it before.
Thanks koalar thanked for this post
Likes koalar liked this post
__________________




If you find a fix for your problem please let us know it will help others.
RalphM is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(G) Fiat 500 cross oil smell in cabin when starting from warm engine Terry Fisher 500X 8 19-08-2019 14:27
cross x bobanana Newbie Central 0 14-06-2015 13:14
Panda Cross Newbie (very cross) Ruth K Newbie Central 1 19-10-2013 23:39
(G) Panda Cross Discounts starting Geordie Amanda Panda 8 06-09-2008 12:07
what do you get when you cross... Dazza Leisure Lounge 15 29-01-2005 00:20