I apologize if this is already been covered. Did a quick search. Can only search for key words as my tablet goes funny when I try and pull down the model selection and came back with 40 pages.

Normally I get somewhere between 58 to 66 mpg mixed driving. Did get over 70 once but that was because the wind changed direction and pushed me there and back. Fairly consistent at around 62 per £10 of fuel. Hopefully it will be a bit more now I have fixed the stuck open thermostat.

Obviously keep an eye on tire pressures.

Wonder what driving strategies work best.


My 1.2 seems quite happy sitting at 30mpg In fifth gear but fourth doesn't seem to make any difference anyone spotted any difference.

What on average is the most economical speed. I don't see any difference between 52ish and 58ish above 60 I see a drop.

Going down hill sometimes as soon as you take your accelerator it instantly goes to 142mpg other times there is quite a delay why??

Is it better to speed up going down hill and coast uphill.

Are there any mods other than thinner oil. Not good for the engine.

I find on flat roads and traffic permitting that slowly increasing my speed then decreasing slowly on average gives slightly more MPG than a constant speed. I only talking 5mph up and down.

koalar said:

Normally I get somewhere between 58 to 66 mpg mixed driving.

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If you're seeing that figure on the trip computer, you're doing most, if not all, of the right things. The trip computer is optimistic and to get a proper, real-world figure, you need to measure exactly what you put in over a long period of time. Ideally you also need to calibrate the odometer (not the speedo) against a good quality GPS, but if you're running standard tyres, it'll likely be within 1% or so.

On a fine, dry, wind free day and cruising at 50-55mph, you should see trip mpg figures into the mid 70's. My best ever 100+ mile trip reading was 80.1mpg, but that was in ideal conditions with a tailwind.

Speed for absolute best economy in 5th is probably somewhere in the 30's; certainly mine is noticeably more economical at 40mph than 50mph, but 40mph is hardly a practical motorway cruising speed (unless you regularly use the M25). As you've found already, economy lowers progressively with increasing speed and the difference starts to become substantial from about 55mph.

Driving with a cold engine absolutely crucifies the 1.2 Panda in Euro4 form (the Euro5 is better when cold but slightly worse in the cruise); the engine overfuels significantly in open loop mode before the sensors warm up, so avoiding journeys <5miles will make a noticeable difference, especially in winter.

Thinner oil helps by more than you might imagine (at one point Fiat claimed to have reduced emissions & consumption by 20% just by changing the oil & tyre specs); the 1.2 isn't highly stressed and isn't oil critical; Book recommendation for the Euro4/5 engines is 5W40 (what I use) but if you're driving for best economy it won't be working hard and you could probably go down to an 0W30 without causing any problems; worth considering for winter use by those eco drivers changing their oil twice yearly.

Tyres make a big difference at these sort of speeds and you need to be driving on the best fuel rated tyres you can find; there aren't that many good ones in 155/80x13. The car came with Continental Eco Contacts as standard and I swapped to Michelin Energy at around 35k; both have a decent eco rating but the michelins are noticeably quieter.

koalar said:

I find on flat roads and traffic permitting that slowly increasing my speed then decreasing slowly on average gives slightly more MPG than a constant speed. I only talking 5mph up and down.

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This is a known ecodriving technique and attempts to run the engine at best efficiency; it works best if you accelerate up & then let the car coast in neutral, but this is hardly a practical or safe technique for everyday driving. Interestingly I can get very good trip figures on one particular journey that consists of a long, steepish climb followed by a longer, gentler descent - ideal conditions for some serious ecodriving.

koalar,

please tell us what size tyres are on your car..

Charlie

Good tips here., all designed to keep the engine from doing any more work than necessary.

To add to this - an engine that runs cool burns more fuel than one running at optimum temperature. In freezing conditions, extra fuel is used to combat the extra loss of heat. It makes sense to slow the flow of bitter air through the radiator and around the engine block and its components.

Fit a blind. Not only will the engine warm up faster, but it will use less fuel trying to keep warm. A good blind also stops damp salt-laden air swirling around all the electrical contact points under the bonnet.

Your heater will work better and your economy will improve.

Sweetsixteen said:

To add to this - an engine that runs cool burns more fuel than one running at optimum temperature. In freezing conditions, extra fuel is used to combat the extra loss of heat. It makes sense to slow the flow of bitter air through the radiator and around the engine block and its components.

Fit a blind. Not only will the engine warm up faster, but it will use less fuel trying to keep warm. A good blind also stops damp salt-laden air swirling around all the electrical contact points under the bonnet.

Your heater will work better and your economy will improve.

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Another excellent tip.

I did some experiments with constructing makeshift blinds back in the cold winter of 2010/11, with noticeable improvements in both warmup times and economy. The threads should still be around somewhere. Be careful to monitor underbonnet temperatures if you take this to extremes, as there are some electronic components in there that you definitely don't want to get too hot and the coolant temperature gauge won't pick up localised hotspots in the engine bay.

Manufacturers could do much more to improve real world economy of cars running in colder conditions by providing active airflow management around the engine, together with themostatically controlled heated manifolds; some have made progress in this direction already (AIUI the Euro6 TA recycles the heat from the exhaust manifold to reduce the warmup time). At least 70% of the energy content of the fuel is lost in the form of waste heat; finding ways to convert some of this into power could result in significant improvements in economy. Preheating the engine and precharging the battery could likely get you about 10% in real world typical winter car use.

varesecrazy said:

koalar,

please tell us what size tyres are on your car..

Charlie

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Tigar Sigura 155/80/13 79T

Dark outside that an at least one corner

ecodriving technique


Not heard of it before. Something new to Google.


Thanks

Mmmm

Use a online website to check what their pressures should be..


Enter the reg and it gave 29psi front and 26psi rear however

http://www.tyre-pressure.co.uk/fiat/panda

Gives rear also at 29psi.

One has to be wrong.

koalar said:

Mmmm

Use a online website to check what their pressures should be..


Enter the reg and it gave 29psi front and 26psi rear however

http://www.tyre-pressure.co.uk/fiat/panda

Gives rear also at 29psi.

One has to be wrong.

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the rear is more dependant on vehicle loading..

Economy is one thing but slogging an engine cause significant wear on cylinders and crank bearings. Below 1500 revs you really are pushing things and its actually more harmful than bouncing it off the rev limiter.

It's more important to maintain momentum. Look a long way ahead and anticipate the traffic. Avoid following too close when a car turns left as you'll have to almost stop with them. Keep back and you may be able to overtake and hardly reduce speed at all.

The old IAM rule is to watch the space ahead. If the usable road is betting longer keep going or speed up. If the space is getting shorter be ready to slow down.

At junctions decide whether you speed will take you away from danger or lead you into danger. Pretty obvious? But if you say "can I cross that space before the car over there arrives" you might not need to stop. Yes = keep going. No or not sure = stop.

So many drivers stop at any excuse then don't think about what to do next until they've stopped. At traffic islands this causes queues and wastes fuel.

Safety is not always about stopping or going slow. It's also about keeping away from risky situations. Would anyone with any sense go slowly when turning right across traffic? These days many do, but they are far from safe.

DaveMcT said:

Below 1500 revs you really are pushing things and its actually more harmful than bouncing it off the rev limiter.

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It's all about engine loading - after all a warm engine idles at 7-800rpm and no one would describe an idling engine as labouring.

What you should avoid is a combination of wide throttle openings combined with low rpm, as you correctly say, that is what does the damage, particularly to the bearings in the bottom of the engine. So you need to be careful to use only a featherweight touch on the go pedal if you're below 1500.

The 1.2 Panda will pull cleanly from about 1100rpm provided you don't press down on the accelerator; useful as you can drive comfortably in traffic at 30mph in top gear. But if you want to accelerate from 30 at more than a snail's pace, you'll need to downshift.

I've said it before, but ecodriving most definitely isn't about shoving it into top gear and flooring the pedal.

In mixed traffic, the greatest savings come from not using the stop pedal, which means you need to be good at reading the road ahead.

jrkitching said:

It's all about engine loading - after all a warm engine idles at 7-800rpm and no one would describe an idling engine as labouring.

What you should avoid is a combination of wide throttle openings combined with low rpm, as you correctly say, that is what does the damage, particularly to the bearings in the bottom of the engine. So you need to be careful to use only a featherweight touch on the go pedal if you're below 1500.

The 1.2 Panda will pull cleanly from about 1100rpm provided you don't press down on the accelerator; useful as you can drive comfortably in traffic at 30mph in top gear. But if you want to accelerate from 30 at more than a snail's pace, you'll need to downshift.

I've said it before, but ecodriving most definitely isn't about shoving it into top gear and flooring the pedal.

In mixed traffic, the greatest savings come from not using the stop pedal, which means you need to be good at reading the road ahead.

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Idling is no load except for pumping losses so it should run fine. But useful power where the engine isn't stressed will be above 1500rpm. Just because it "can" do it does not mean it "should". Especially as drivers forget and floor the accelerator at low engine revs. I regularly hear engine knock when people do this.

Cruising in a high gear (as you say) is fine but the box is needed when you want to accelerate. 5th to 3rd is probably needed at 30mph though it will pull adequately in 4th. I generally keep my engine spinning IMO, the additional fuel saving is not worth the costs of slogging it. because the roads are so unpredictable. Just when you get a smooth stretch some muppet will pull under your front bumper and you'll be on the brakes and then fumbling for a gear to get moving again.

I'm not saying rev until the valves bounce just keep it sensible. 2000 revs isn't screaming and the engine will pull cleanly when needed. If that extra 0.5% of fuel saving is so important get a 125 scooter. Otherwise remind yourself that your catalyst is less likely to need a periodic Italian tuneup. That itself will use fuel and cancel any slow speed savings.

PS My grandfather learnt to drive during WW2 and they guy didn't have a clue. His VW Beetle would be sliding all over the road because he didn't slow down enough for bends, yet he'd have it in top gear almost as soon as it was rolling with the big ends knocking. Seriously I could recognise the noise at age 10. Amazingly his car survived his driving ability. He really thought that you go faster when you use high gears.

I look at this way. Every time a brake I am loosing fuel heating my brakes.


Some great tips. Thanks

An egg under the loud pedal, and a demerit every time you hit the brake pedal.

Thanks Pop for that tip when I was learning!

I checked my engine speeds the other day. In town in lower gears it does drop to 1500rpm. In 5th I rarely go below 2000. Its just too sluggish.

Have noticed road surface makes a big difference.

Part of the A666 has a very rough surface. Makes quite a lot of tyre noise. As soon as the road changes back less throttle is required.


Not much difference between 55 and 58 mph however there does seem to quite a difference dropping to 50.

koalar said:

Have noticed road surface makes a big difference.

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One good way to get some real world experience of the difference the road surface makes is to ride a bicycle.

It will also teach you that even small differences in the gradient make a huge difference to the power required to get up (or down) it.

Using a cleaner fuel makes more sense.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Fiat-Panda-4...920776?hash=item25ca2fcf08:g:8wwAAOSw-0xYQfXN

The top box and 4x4 wont help but looks a great way to run a clean a car as possible.

PS
Don't be kidded that electric cars are clean. They use more energy to make than normal cars, 80% of our electricity is fossil fuelled and the conversion efficiency from raw fuel to turning the wheels is horrendous.

Over many years of trying and never making enough weffortI can say avoid harsh acceleration and keep the engine working comfortable at the lowest sensible speed. 40 mph is a good speed. Oddly my 100HP is quite happy to deliver about 50 mpg at a steady 80 mph and it has to go quite a lot slower before a real gain is had. It seems less economical at 70. A REALLY light right foot is the only way to improve economy. Its interesting to see that you can still make progress when being feather light on the pedal.

During the late 1990s fuel strikes I was running a VW Passat Mk3 with TDI 90 engine. I drove from Derby to Harlow (work) being ultra careful to manage my fuel as best as possible. I never went over 50 and walked the 3 miles to work each day. I filled up at home to find it had done 57mpg. Fab, but my normal driving style was quick with motorway usually below 85 (same as everyone else). It normally gave low 50s mpg. All that hassle for 10% fuel saving.

The Panda definitely runs better on posh petrol. Tesco 99 or Shell Optimax feel the same to drive but Tesco is much cheaper. With ordinary 95RON the engine struggles to rev and feels like the brakes are dragging.

Cost of posh fuel (even Shell) is at least cost neutral and usually cheaper per mile.