Technical best way to remove driveshaft

[RichyLJ69]

Hello, I have recently purchased a Panda 2011 1.2 Active which has been an eventful experience!! Just as I sort one problem out another seems to raise it's head!
Anyway, I have read that the driveshafts can be a bit stubborn to remove from the diff/gearbox end, probably requiring a pry bar. The Haynes manual recommends removing the 2 bolts holding the hub to the bottom of the suspension strut and also the tie rod ball joint. Then pivot the hub away to allow the driveshaft to be removed from the hub end. I have also seen a gentleman on You Tube (admittedly this was on a punto) just undo the pinch bolt on the lower ball joint and seperate the hub from the lower control arm (think it's called that). This also seemed to allow enough room for the driveshaft to be removed from the hub. Just wondering if any folk have undertaken this job and their preferred method. Thanks very much. Richard.

 

[rmjbn1]

Hi and welcome

I only removed the pinch bolt to separate the wishbone from the hub.

I followed this video:

He knocks the driveshafts out of the box with a hammer and chisel. And makes it look easy. One of mine was. The other one didn't want to budge.

There's only a spring clip holding them in, so I don't see why they should put up so much of a fight sometimes. Fingers crossed you get lucky.

Sorry to hear your Panda is giving you grief. Is it all consumables? Lots of cheap components that can fail with age. Or is there an issue?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hi Richy. We have a 2010 Panda 1.2 dynamic eco so the driveshaft/hub/upright etc will be just like yours. I'd definitely recommend just removing the pinch bolt as the two big bolts that hold the upright to the shocker will likely be corroded in. I did a pretty thorough rebuild of my front suspension, including new shocks, back in 2019 (or thereabouts) and on each side one bolt came out with a struggle and the other snapped and took quite a while to drive out with a drift and lots of Plus Gas. By the way, the pinch bolt isn't exactly the biggest - I've done a few of them over the years (we've had several Pandas in the family) - and they are often slightly bent. I just wouldn't trust putting the old one back in.

Getting the drive shafts out? I have a big old Melco tyre lever which is about 20 inches long and I've removed many driveshafts on many different makes of car with it. I find the best technique is to apply a vigorous "snatch", using a bolt head as the pivot point, rather than a steady pull - but don't be "silly" about how violent you are, you don't want to damage the casing! Sometimes you'll find it's reluctant to come out and I think what happens is that the snap ring which retains it gets a wee bit "off centre" in the groove. I find that if I'm finding it doesn't want to come then, rather than getting really rough with it, just turn the shaft a bit, somewhere around a third to half a turn, and try levering again. I think this allows the snap ring to relocate itself in the groove and I find that one that's been stubbornly resisting me on the first try will often simply pop out after turning the shaft a bit. If it still won't come try turning it a bit more and it's worth trying this for a few minutes, turning it a bit between each try, before resorting to more violent action. If the snap ring jams up and you get really violent with it I've seen the shaft actually cut the snap ring and little bits of it might fall into the diff if this happens!

 

[dagdromer]

Just done a gearbox change and it is that simple. Just take the 13mm bolt out of the hub that holds the lower control arm in. Make sure it is clean and put some wd40 on it. Then grab a big pribar or crowbar and put some tension on that. Make sure that the car is secure on jackstands so you can rock it a bit.

My advise is to loosen the 32mm nut on the driveshaft before removing other parts. I left the car in gear and the other wheel on the ground so the impact wrench has something to grab to. (make sure you tap the ends of the nut back).

when you have the hub separated from the lower control arm take the axle out of the hub first, if you pull the hub towards you and the door it can slide out. Then put your pribar between the inner cv joint and one of the nuts on the gearbox. Dont put it on and start applying pressure, put it on and give it a little bang. the shock will help a lot taking it off.

Getting it back in can be problematic. I put the gearbox side in first. Put it in by hand as far as possible. Then put it back in the hub. Now put the big pribar between the subframe and the lower control arm so it will go down. Keep it down with your knee while you grab the brake rotor with both hand and give it a good push inwards. again a bang helps a lot.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Getting it back in can be problematic. I put the gearbox side in first. Put it in by hand as far as possible. Then put it back in the hub. Now put the big pribar between the subframe and the lower control arm so it will go down. Keep it down with your knee while you grab the brake rotor with both hand and give it a good push inwards. again a bang helps a lot.

I've put them back in using the weight of the shaft and hub as a "slide hammer" What I mean is, with the CV located in the wheel bearing and with it's big nut semi tight (you'll need the wheel on the ground to fully tighten it) and with the inner plunge joint splines lined up and entered into the diff, grip the hub with both hands and push it quickly and vigorously inwards towards the diff. It normally just pops in! I was shown to do it this way many years ago and I remember being quite worried about damaging the needle rollers in the plunge joint. Never known a problem, mind you I'm not advising you to absolutely whack it in, it's more of a firm but quick shock. Also, use some thick grease smeared on the snap ring to keep it centred in the groove and stop it falling to the bottom. Also position the gap at the bottom, makes it easier for the taper to compress it as the shaft goes in. You wouldn't think that would make a difference, but I can assure you it does.

 

[rmjbn1]

Just for clarification, are we talking about getting the diff end of the driveshaft out of the box, or removing the driveshaft entirely from the car?

 

[koalar]

Are you taking the driveshafts off

Or removing the gearbox

 

[RichyLJ69]

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply. Really helpful.

As I eluded to in the original question, this car has been an interesting purchase!

Initially, I observed a leaking shock on the drivers side so replaced the strut, spring, top mount etc. Thought I may as well do the same for the passenger side. While doing that I noticed the sump was wet. Further investigation revealed it had rusted through, so replaced that (really fun!). While the exhaust was off for that job I replaced the centre & rear section as both had seen better days. Then both calipers were very rusty so replaced them. Car did at least have new pads and discs so got lucky with that!

I also realised the clutch was stiff when I bought it, replaced the slave cylinder with no improvement. So I thought OK I'll do the clutch some time, but no hurry as it's not slipping or dragging. Unfortunately, on starting the car to check for leaks etc. after the above work done, and because car was in the garage (so sounds echoed about more), I could hear a metallic whirring noise when I depressed or released the clutch. So now thinking I should replace clutch as this sounds like a clutch release bearing problem?? certainly something not right anyway and dont really feel I should be driving it in case it fails altogether!

 

[RichyLJ69]

Are you taking the driveshafts off

Or removing the gearbox

Hi, removing gearbox for clutch replacement. This is a good question as ideally want to maximise space to get gearbox out. Perhaps this is why Haynes say to remove strut bolts and tie rod? thanks

 

[portland_bill]

As said above, the driveshaft should just pull out of the gearbox, as there's only a spring clip holding it. One of mine popped out easily, the other fought, very hard. Left it a few hours, and it popped out. Just the way it is.

Release just the lower pinch bolt and swing the hub out to release shaft from hub.

 

[koalar]

Right for the clutch there no need to touch the big nut in the middle

You will need to drain the gearbox oil

A big bar between the gearbox and flange and nudge it out, shock not strength

Sometimes you need to rotate the shaft a few times

.the passenger side is normally very easy

The drivers side has worse access

No big deal, if needs must and you can't get it out, just cut the band that holds the Rubber boot on, wiggle it with some mole grips, pull the joint apart and tie a plastic bag on each end to keep the dirt out, 30 seconds max and it's done, just use a cable tie instead of the band on refitting

There are other way such as using a wire cable, but there's no need to find or make something

 

[dagdromer]

Depending if you do this in your backyard on the ground or on a lift. I did it 2 times with the cups still in the box. It gives you much less space to take the box off and on. But with some wiggling you can get the short axle in such a position it is not in the way.
The last time I drained the box and popped the axles both out. The long axle I pushed up to get it out of the way, the short I removed completely. If you also remove the selector cable bracket it is a piece of cake to take it off.

When you reassemble make sure you have the shields all lined up as the threaded stud on the back of the box (near the starter) can be be a challenge to lineup. I prefer taking the axles out and spending the little extra on new gearbox oil. Bought a big 5 liter can on amazon for 25 euro's.

 

[rmjbn1]

I could hear a metallic whirring noise when I depressed or released the clutch. So now thinking I should replace clutch as this sounds like a clutch release bearing problem??

The other thing that can get noisy is the input shaft bearing - known to fail (mine did - as did @dagdromer's)

Put a finger in this inspection window (engine off!)

If it's oily inside then the bearing has failed, allowing play in the shaft to deform the seal. Probably won't contaminate the clutch plate, but if the bearing breaks up it can do a fair bit of damage.

Replacing the input shaft bearing and seal means taking the gearbox apart, but personally I would do it whenever doing a clutch on these. There's a great guide to it on this forum.

 

[rmjbn1]

Sounds like you got a car that needed a fair few jobs doing.

But at least they're mostly consumable service items, even the sump pan, which does seem strangely fond of rusting. And you'll have a new car soon

It also sounds like your car could be on the rusty side.

Bodies are galvanised, so rust shouldn't be extensive, but you might want to give some attention to:

• Rear spring pans
• Rear sills (access through bung in rear wheel arch)
• Coolant return pipe across front of engine
• Mud trap behind front springs

Also check the 'duckbil' scuttle drains below the wipers are clear - they block easily.

They're well-built cars, with tough engines, just some cheap components. Hopefully you get these issues sorted she'll be a good 'un

 

[RichyLJ69]

Sounds like you got a car that needed a fair few jobs doing.

But at least they're mostly consumable service items, even the sump pan, which does seem strangely fond of rusting. And you'll have a new car soon

It also sounds like your car could be on the rusty side.

Bodies are galvanised, so rust shouldn't be extensive, but you might want to give some attention to:

• Rear spring pans
• Rear sills (access through bung in rear wheel arch)
• Coolant return pipe across front of engine
• Mud trap behind front springs

Also check the 'duckbil' scuttle drains below the wipers are clear - they block easily.

They're well-built cars, with tough engines, just some cheap components. Hopefully you get these issues sorted she'll be a good 'un

Hi,

thanks for the info. You're spot on with all the potential trouble areas. There is definitely corrosion around the rear sills, worse on the drivers side for some reason, otherewise they seem solid. I also did the metal coolant pipe and removed the kilogram or so of dirt behind the front springs! I could have grown some plants in there! Scraped as much of the loose paint and rust that was revealed then waxoyled it. Cleaned the scuttle drains as well - wish every job was as easy as that! Hopefully getting there but does not feel like it at the moment! lol Cheers, Richard

 

[rmjbn1]

Do I have a problem? 1.2 Dynamic.

My driveshafts are off (to replace two split cv boots) and I noticed this discolouration on the right side outer cv joint (also but less on the inner joint).

On the right in the pictures.

Is this normal? It wouldn't get hot enough in use to cause this, would it?

My Panda's recently started knocking on full lock, sounds like it's coming only from the right front. I was imagining drop links or top mounts causing that.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Do I have a problem? 1.2 Dynamic.

My driveshafts are off (to replace two split cv boots) and I noticed this discolouration on the right side outer cv joint (also but less on the inner joint).

On the right in the pictures.

Is this normal? It wouldn't get hot enough in use to cause this, would it?

My Panda's recently started knocking on full lock, sounds like it's coming only from the right front. I was imagining drop links or top mounts causing that.

Before stripping did you hear any knocks/clicking noises on full lock? If so that would indicate wear. However my guess would be it's been something to do with the hardening process when they were made. Interesting that the same effect can be seen, although to a lesser extent on the inner plunge joint, which would seem to me to indicate it's been induced during the hardening heat treatment. If there was no indication of wear and all looks Ok from what you can see, I'd just stuff some CV lube in and fit the new boot.

 

[rmjbn1]

Thank you Jock. Did wonder if it was the hardening.

Before stripping did you hear any knocks/clicking noises on full lock? If so that would indicate wear.

Yes, it's recently started knocking on full lock. Reversing seems worse.

Also knocking coming off throttle at low speeds, but I suspect that's something else, possibly dogbone rear engine mount

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thank you Jock. Did wonder if it was the hardening.


Yes, it's recently started knocking on full lock. Reversing seems worse.

That's typical of a worn CV joint. For anyone trying this drive the car on full lock one way, say right hand, and then the other, which would be left. Because the wheel on the side you're turning to, so left front if turning to the left, is on a tighter degree of turning - read up about Ackerman steering geometry if you're wondering what I'm talking about - than it's opposite number (the one on the right in this instance) if the knock is louder when on full left lock than on full right lock then it's going to be the Left front CV joint which is worn. If louder on the right lock then it'll be the right front CV. Often the noise is most loud and so obvious when just pulling away from rest on full lock so you don't need to test it at speed. Knocking more noticeably as you start to move in reverse is a common symptom too. Take the balls and cage out of the CV - just lever the cage round and the balls should pop out - then you can examine the grooves in the outer cup and inner bit (can't remember it's proper name - Doh, age again) and you'll most likely see "dimples" roughly half way along the grooves because this is where the balls are when you're going straight ahead which is where they'll be most of the time so that's where wear is most rapid. The clicking/knocking noise is the balls rapidly transiting over these dimples when on full lock. they don't click when going straight ahead because the balls aren't transiting over the dimples. By the way, take careful note of which way round the inner grooved "cage" fits, they will often only work one way round due to the fit required for the driveshaft - ie the inner side of the splines will be tapered so it can compress the snap ring when you wish to remove the CV joint. Not all are like this, Ford, for instance, seem to prefer a circlip which fits on the outer side of the central cage and you get to it by removing the rubber boot and using a pair of circlip pliers to compress it. This can catch people out who don't know about it as it "hides" in the grease!

It's often heard at a "T" junction where you have to pull out either right or left. Starts off as a light repeated clicking noise which many people will ignore. However, as it wears more, it'll become more of a rattle eventually it becomes a pronounced knocking which you'd be a fool to ignore, but many do! Of course it's also an MOT failure if the garage picks up on it which is not quite so likely these days unless it's quite obvious as no road test is performed on an MOT now.

Also knocking coming off throttle at low speeds, but I suspect that's something else, possibly dogbone rear engine mount

That sounds a likely culprit. Or maybe a badly worn suspension bush or even engine mount. Should be easy enough to spot. It won't be a repeated clicking/knocking like the CV though but more likely a knock as the tension goes off the joint as you go from drive to overrun and the worn bushing fails to absorb the change in torque/direction of drive. Night be an exhaust mounting, especially if the exhaust isn't very well aligned?

 

[koalar]

To me

It looks like it's been over 330 degrees centigrade and will now have lost its hardness, or maybe a manufacturing fault





Compared to a new one

If you file a bit, obviously not from the working surfaces do that both appear the same