and you just made up the bit about the op's car and the 'sewing machine.'.. ??
Must have been talking to electrician huh ? - contagious

captainslarty said:

"I hadnt a clue and rang fiat after buggering about for 4 hours without a clue..

Click to expand...

Four hours labour for £60!
Where is this place?
I wouldn't mind them looking at something for me at that price.

mulaz said:

.

Then called into a auto electrical engineer in my neck of the woods in durham.
he said straight away what the problem was as he had done 3 other panda's before.

Click to expand...

Diagnosed straight away, the OP left the car for the day, which is common.

mulaz said:

my panda is now back to normal

Click to expand...

It's a 1.1 Eco, so the sewing machine quote was incorrect, sewing machines run a lot rougher.

Goudrons said:

Four hours labour for £60!
Where is this place?
I wouldn't mind them looking at something for me at that price.

Diagnosed straight away, the OP left the car for the day, which is common.

It's a 1.1 Eco, so the sewing machine quote was incorrect, sewing machines run a lot rougher.

Click to expand...

200 miles later and the occasional misfire is back. My suspicions confirmed as I feared. Software update was a con - probably well intentioned - but nevertheless a waste of money.

fredpanda said:

200 miles later and the occasional misfire is back. My suspicions confirmed as I feared. Software update was a con - probably well intentioned - but nevertheless a waste of money.

Click to expand...

sorry to hear it.. but like you I wasn't sold on it's merits..,:bang:

it appears strange to me that 95% of the "annoying misfire" posts on here seem to stem for a very small cross-section of the panda range = 2009 to 2010 1.1's

pinpointing what was fitted on these( that sets them apart) may well help in further diagnosis:idea:

Charlie 2004 1.1 active

captainslarty said:

Sounds like a con job to me - total BS...
Probably a loose connection thats all.
WHY didnt you take it to someone with diagnostic equipment instead of buggering around with changing things and back street rip off merchants ?
There are NO 'brittle' wires and 'hidden' connectors etc etc - utter, total crap.
You have been well and truly conned. Wanna buy some dehydrated water ??

Click to expand...

Perhaps you want to reconsider this view? Person who got wiring sorted is fine, person with update isn't, funny that.

306maxi said:

Perhaps you want to reconsider this view? Person who got wiring sorted is fine, person with update isn't, funny that.

Click to expand...

No, perfectly happy ! - total load of crap from alleged spark.. now he can go and have the loom replaced...

you are a very troubled little boy are you not ?..... perhaps you should seek help ? - I think you are developing an obsessive compulsive disorder....
the dejected stalker... - come and meet and we will 'discuss' your problem as you seem to be following me around like a likkle lap doggy..

I have a good bs detector and you constantly set it off

It should be pointed out that t 14086 is a Fiat technician and agrees that the wiring is the most likely fault, for some inexplicable reason you feel to disagree with this diagnosis. You seem to feel that because you've got a copy of elearn that you know everything there is to know when unfortunately this is proving not to be the case time and time again. Everyone has the right to an opinion and to have their say, but you seem to feel that your opinion is above criticism for some reason. Pull your neck in and for once admit that you were wrong.

Found the fault at last thanks to Kevin on the forum. Instructed the garage to closely examine the coil pack connector and the ecu connector and check the female pins for spreading and re-crimp as necessary. Job done - and at zero cost. Having already forked out for 2 x coil packs, diagnostic, software update and another diagnostic (and declined suggestions to replace spark plugs and ecu) from so called experts, I think I got off rather lightly - some poor sods have coughed up over a grand and still got the problem !! It's a circuit connection problem - nothing more - nothing less.

Here's my experiences from initial fault, through diagnosis to eventual repair.
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/420817-injector-problem-code-p0202-cyl-2-injector-2.html?p=4119624

An old thread now but seems to have fixed mine was cleaning out the ECU connector contacts. Never had an issue since but I did that in April and my issues were usually in the winter so may be too early to tell. Either way I had no misfires or cutting out since this was done.

It does appear to me the earlier Eco models this issue affects. My mate has a 2009 Panda 1.1 Eco but he has had no issues but has done even less mileage than mine! (15,000!)

T14086 said:

What the OP is trying to describe is a 'splice-joint' which is located in the engine harness near the rear ignition coil.

This has been known to myself and other Fiat techs for years so it's nothing new and it's likely the auto electrician phoned dealer for advice, I take around 5-8 phone calls per day from other garages so lets not slag of the dealer techs, dealerships pay their wages not Fiat.

Anyway re-soldering the crimp connection often works but not all the time and the best bet is to replace engine loom at around £135 which isn't expensive (cost of 2 branded tryes) and takes about an hour.

Errors? yes you often get an injector or a random misfire error this is due to the splice joint powering the coils/injectors and a couple of near by sensors.

Hope that has cleared things up.

Click to expand...

It's good to know that there are competent people on this forum such as T14086. I have had an intermittent P0202 on a 2010 Panda 1.1. I have swapped injector 2 with injector 1 and still got a P0202. Having checked the circuit diagram I found that all 4 injectors and both ignition coils have a common ground that goes back to Connector D0004 Pin F. There is only 1 wire (brown/black) at D004 Pin F and so there had to be a join somewhere along the loom. Thanks to T14086 I now know where ground wires are joined in the loom.

The engine wiring loom on 1.1 ECO Pandas is a known source of misfire issues so here is a bit more info for OBD CODES P201 P202 P203 & P204 and presumably P352 & P352.
The Injector & Coil Return wires are Brown/Red and are all joined together inside the wiring loom about 30mm into the plastic tube on top of the cam cover that protects the Injector wires. It is a crimped connection and on a 2010 Panda 1.1 ECO and joins with a Light Blue/Yellow wire that goes to Pin F on the Plug/Socket D004 which is the 8 pin front engine coupling near the Engine Fuse Box. In the Manual it shows this Light Blue/Yellow wire as Brown/Black but this is presumably for earlier models.
You will need to cut the 25mm crimp connection out, strip back the wires and solder them with a short piece of wire to replace the crimp connection. If you don't put a link piece of wire in you may find that the injector wires are too short.
I found all this out the hard way with an intermittent P202 that did not change codes when I swapped injectors.
This might just help with fixing some intermittent Injector & Coil Faults.

Hello i have two euro 5's with ecu facing upwards not the ecu that was side on near battery. They have intermittent misfire 2&3 cylinder.. i also have done all the basics and the older model 2007-2010 the small injector loom was the problem...my question is on the later euro 5 model with ecm above end of cam cover does this also suffer with a similar issue?

going to try this today , have replaced the power lead from ecu to no.2 coil as it has been continu tested that many times by other garages thought best to replace , as you can move the wire and cause issue ..this car after doing some digging has had 4 coils 2 sets of plugs/leads 2 ecu changes by 2 garages ... did 31 miles yesterday fine...then going round an island it stared the misfire . I limped back and had to turn really quickly into my road (so as not to stop ) and it fire back into life ...then misfired.... so I did the f1 running out of fuel trick from the 80's , violently swaying left to right and it picked up again !!!!!

I've heard it all now, so called experts Fiat Dealerships saying you either solder splice joint or replace harness!
I am an old school mechanic& auto electrician that has been on at least 40 training courses & in last 15 years every manufacturer says the type of wiring on modern cars is not copper& must be cut& joined with crimp terminals with built in heat shrink
So every day is a school day in this game!
None of us know it all!
It just winds me up when I see so called experts belittling people who ask for help!
Dehydrated water for sale!

I'd like to know how often his colleges call him miss diagnosis?

drino said:

Hello I have two euro 5s with ecu facing upwards not the ecu that was side on near battery. They have intermittent misfire 2&3 cylinder. I also have done all the basics and the older model 2007-2010 the small injector loom was the problem...my question is on the later euro 5 model with ecm above end of cam cover does this also suffer with a similar issue?

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to take away from the wiring issues, but a fault on 1 and 4 or on 2 and 3 could be a coil or the wiring to the coil. These cars use two coils to drive the four plugs. Each coil fires at every turn on the engine creating a "wasted spark" on the exhaust stroke while the other paired plug is firing the air fuel mixture.

Check the coil wiring and consider swapping the coils to see if the fault moves to the other pair of plugs.

I agree .. misfires on the 2 cylinders running off one coil does sound like a pattern.

Having owned a 1.1 for 15 years and 95k miles..

I am still to have any of these issues..

However I have also not let cowboys do any work on it.. or let the scuttle fill with water.. submerging looms.

Charlie

My solution to this issue was to re-solder the y joint on the red/white wire as the this had been done by a 'dealer' at some point very badly.

I also made a strong back to support the wiring harness over the ECU, the fault is caused by the weight of the harness pulling down against the ECU plugs, this puts strain on the wiring and plug pins, particularly the coil supply, making poor contact and over heating causing the wire to go brittle and eventually break.
My strong back (currently a wooden spoon handle! Which will be changed for some steel conduit at next service) supports the wire taking the weight away from the ECU plug pins.


15,000 miles later and the issue has not returned.