Where do you check for the anti-freeze levels? And how often does it need topping up?

I can find no mention of it in the manual.

Panda had a service in June, and with this being the first big freeze, I'm hoping that I should be ok for this winter......?

There were 2 questions there, so 2 answers:

The anti-freeze is added to the coolant water, and shouldn't need any action at all, other than a drain down and refill as part of a very distant service. Also, the level should stay pretty constant as its a sealed system -- nothing can get in or out unless something goes wrong. However, like all liquids, coolant expands when it gets warm so the level in the tank will go up and down according to engine temperature, so ideally check it when the engine is cold.

And where to check: you say you have the manual -- then see the section marked 'checking the levels' and look for 'engine coolant'. The models with 1.1 and 1.2 engines without air conditioning, there's a cylindrical tank down the side of the radiator, on the left standing looking at the car. Cars with air con, or the diesel or 1.4 engine, there's a large 'egg shaped' tank on the left side over the wheelarch. in both cases, the tanks are semi-transparent and you should be able to see the levels through the side of the tank. As long as its somewhere between 'min' and 'max' marks, you're fine. The fluid should be pink-ish in colour.

It is possible to test if the antifreeze still works -- but really not necessary for many years/ten of thousands of miles yet.

Much more important -- check your tyre pressures, as they will drop considerably in cold weather and will certainly need inflating if not checked since June.

Pete

Herts Hillhopper said:

There were 2 questions there, so 2 answers:

The anti-freeze is added to the coolant water, and shouldn't need any action at all, other than a drain down and refill as part of a very distant service.

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isn't it supposed to be changed every other year?

RobW said:

isn't it supposed to be changed every other year?

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Yes but how many people actually do ..

Red coolant usually lasts twice as long as blue coolant (Organic Acid Technology vs Mono Ethylene Glycol) so you should be good for up to four years. Remember that coolant not only stops the water freezing, but also serves as the lubricant for your water pump and cooling system. This is generally why it's changed - because the lubricating properties wear out - not necessarily because it's anti-freezing properties diminish.

Also remember that Red and Blue don't mix, so if you were originally filled with red, don't top up with blue. It might be cheaper than red, but the end result will be detrimental.

Ben

PNL said:

Yes but how many people actually do ..

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most i would have thought - if it is being serviced to schedule as the OP said he had?

BenP said:

Red coolant usually lasts twice as long as blue coolant (Organic Acid Technology vs Mono Ethylene Glycol) so you should be good for up to four years. Remember that coolant not only stops the water freezing, but also serves as the lubricant for your water pump and cooling system. This is generally why it's changed - because the lubricating properties wear out - not necessarily because it's anti-freezing properties diminish.

Also remember that Red and Blue don't mix, so if you were originally filled with red, don't top up with blue. It might be cheaper than red, but the end result will be detrimental.

Ben

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...and importantly corrosion inhibiting

RobW said:

most i would have thought - if it is being serviced to schedule as the OP said he had?

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On my second service at fiat they didn't do it or even ask if I wanted it done..buy as you have rightly pointed out in a post it can cause corrosion and on the 8v fire engines cause head gasket failure..I think changing anti freeze is one thing that's not exactly on many peoples minds when it comes to servicing ..until some thing does goes wrong that is..I see this on many forums and not just fiat ones..

BenP said:

Red coolant usually lasts twice as long as blue coolant (Organic Acid Technology vs Mono Ethylene Glycol) so you should be good for up to four years.

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I thought that the red coolant is designed for aluminium engines, and it attacks rubber seals? I looked into getting it a few years back, but in the end I decided that the blue stuff was better.

Although you shouldn't need to top it up it is a good idea to check the level from time to time. As the car gets older you may also find that the lid doesn't seal as well. For some reason my Seicento (9 yrs old) is loosing quite a bit of coolant, but I'm guessing that it's leaking from the lid.

You should regularly (eg. 1-2 weeks) do a 'POWER' check on your car.
Petrol or Diesel (have you got enough fuel)
Oil (Engine oil, and brake fluid)
Water (Coolant, and windscreen wash)
Electrics (Lights etc.)
Rubber (Typres, wiper blades)

BCD said:

Where do you check for the anti-freeze levels? And how often does it need topping up?

I can find no mention of it in the manual.

Panda had a service in June, and with this being the first big freeze, I'm hoping that I should be ok for this winter......?

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You can see it visually through the coolant header tank. But ideally you shouldn't need to ever top it up. Obviously pay heed to some of the more detailed explanations in the thread.

can't say I saw any dire warnings on the bottle of red anti freeze I recently bought from Halfords. If mixing was going to cause huge problems I'd have expected something in large letters saying don't do it. Anyway, not too sure the very old banger I poured it into would care overmuch, never mind blue, red or green this was brown as the cooling system was mostly full of Bars Leaks, Holts Radweld and mayonaise.
Quick look on the Halfords web site
"It is never advised to mix two different types of antifreeze. This may be perfectly safe, but not advised as the mix (antifreeze to water) can never be accuratly measured if just topping up with antifreeze - by HalfordsWebTeam"

OAT (pink) antifreeze has a life of up to five years -- the older glycol-based product (blue) needs changing every two.

They should not be mixed - although no serious damage will be caused, mixing them reduces the 'life' to less than 5 years.

There seems to be no mention of coolant change as an operation in the 'simplified' service schedule shown in the service record book, but I presume it would be covered by the 48000 service...

Pete

Check even more often if you have a diesel, there are plenty of reports on the forum of faulty water pumps on the Mulijet engine. Mine kept dropping, garage said it was missing a hose clip, not completely convinced by that but not had a chance to check the pump yet.

Just to throw a spanner in the works regarding red/pinky orange antifreeze went to the Ford dealer today for some antifreeze (for my mums KA) (needs it replacing) spoke to the parts man and got 5 ltrs of ford grade antifreeze this is purple 10 year life

Everything you could ever want to know about coolant can be found here!

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=841

Ben

Interesting review of coolant technology.
The Fiat service schedule does not specify a coolant change at any mileage so the suggestion that this should be carried out every 2 years is wrong and out of date.
All Pandas will have their cooling systems filled with OAT coolant from new and this will last for at least 5 years. It should be replaced with OAT coolant, not Glycol.
Interestingly, in the case of our Honda Jazz, with pink OAT coolant, the handbook states that the original coolant will not need to be renewed for 10 years, then every 5 years thereafter.
A trickier issue for me is, should top up or renewal coolant be mixed with tap water or de-mineralised water?

The general view is that coolant should be topped up with demineralised water (which is not quite the same as distilled...) But I suppose that depends on your water. Hertfordshire has very hard water and I'd not want that scaling up my engine. Some water in the north east is very soft (such as my late grandparents tap water in Durham City), but other parts get it from the Cleveland hills and that's harder. Not sure about Sunderland...

Pete

Hi Pete, Sunderland water is medium hard.
I've lived here for 23 years and have alternated between filling cooling systems with demineralised or tap water and in real terms, ie how cars run and whether they break down, it has made bugger all difference.
OK, maybe if I kept cars for 20-30 years it might be an issue but who does that now?

doctorchris said:

Hi Pete, Sunderland water is medium hard.
I've lived here for 23 years and have alternated between filling cooling systems with demineralised or tap water and in real terms, ie how cars run and whether they break down, it has made bugger all difference.
OK, maybe if I kept cars for 20-30 years it might be an issue but who does that now?

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Agreed, makes bugger all difference if you use distilled or tap water. You could buy pre-mix I guess. But i've filled cooling systems with a mix of neat coolant and tap water for years with no issues whatsoever.

As temperatures are droping I thought I'd look at the anti-freeze in my 2004 Panda I bought in April. The tank has a long neck and it is hard to see the min/max down thw side-can't see any liquiid in the thin neck bit-do I need to go to a garage to get checked with one of those gauges? thanks