Hi All,

This is my first post on here so go easy on me and hopefully you can help me out!

I currently drive a Freelander 2 and am looking to downsize to the Panda 4x4. We also run a LR Defender so I'm looking to change the FL for a smaller, lower running costs, car. 90% of my driving is a 5 mile commute to work plus into town with the odd long run thrown in.We live in mid-Wales so need the 4x4 option and we can't get rid of the Defender as my better half uses it for towing the horse box.

I'm in the twin air or diesel dilemma. I know either should give me a better return of 32mpg that the FL gives me at the moment around town but I understand that the real world economy is much less than what is officially claimed. My folks have not long picked up a twin air Panda 4x4 and they average around 40. Having been a passenger in it, the car seems quite noisy going though the gears but is nice and quiet on the motorway. Is that a fair summation?

I've driven diesels for years as I like that style of driving so my inclination is to go for the diesel but the lack of a 6th gear is putting me off slightly although the benefit is the increased mpg but that is offset by the extra premium to buy. Also at 75 bhp is it powerful enough for everyday driving? I note that the 95 bhp euro 6 variant is avialable but i can't find any reviews on what it is like to drive.

The nearest garage is north of an hour away so it is difficult to test drive both (folks won't let me near theirs!) so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Normally, I'd say that if economy is your main reason for downsizing, the diesel may be a better bet, especially as you don't seem to like the thrum of the twin-cylinder?
However, it sounds like your mileage will be fairly low, which would point to petrol....
Think you'd best get a drive in both to see which suits best. The TwinAir is more diesel-like in it's power delivery than it's modest capacity would suggest and does make for a respectable car to do a longer journey in (I'm sure the diesel is also quite capable in that respect).
Loads of thoughts on here as several threads still current on this very topic, so get reading!
Good luck with your choice!

I also used to have a freelander and then defender 90. I'm on the isle of Wight, test drove both diesel and petrol and the twinair won hands down for me. Mostly short journeys (16000 miles in 2.5 years so far) on mainly crappy roads. I get ave 43mpg. No dpf to worry about, its fun to drive, its only noisy accelerating hard thru the gears and very quiet on a motorway run. Make sure u order the winter pack and climate control....

I'd go diesel as your 5 mile commute may not get the engine temp up to full, and that's asking for dpf trouble.

deeyup said:

I'd go diesel as your 5 mile commute may not get the engine temp up to full, and that's asking for dpf trouble.

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I think that's one of your rare slips of the keyboard, deeyup .

And yes, I'd agree with what I think you meant to post; opting for petrol is a no-brainer with a 5 mile commute - you'll never get an oil burner up to temperature with that kind of usage and on political considerations alone, the future for passenger diesel cars has never looked so gloomy. Whatever the technical merits, I can see punitive tax penalties for diesel drivers in the not too distant future, especially for those living or working in big cities.

Daveweim said:

Hi All,

I've driven diesels for years as I like that style of driving so my inclination is to go for the diesel but the lack of a 6th gear is putting me off slightly although the benefit is the increased mpg but that is offset by the extra premium to buy.

The nearest garage is north of an hour away so it is difficult to test drive both (folks won't let me near theirs!) so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Click to expand...

You may be right in worrying about the lack of a sixth gear in the MJ Panda 4x4.

I have a TA 4x4 with the 6 speed gearbox, my wife a Trekking which as standard comes with the 5 gears. In regularly driving both I much prefer the 6 speed box in the 4x4. It is quicker to 20/30 mph and gives a much smoother, sportier and less noisy feel than the Trekking. Driving the Trekking I find that the gearing is such that in urban driving it is happier in fourth than fifth gear, and that should I engage fifth at less than 40mph the TA engine complains so much that I have to almost immediately drop back down to fourth.

The same may not apply to comparing the MJ to a petrol version however you really need to test both as the cars may feel completely different. Whatever you decide I am sure you are making a good decision in switching to a Panda given your small mileage.

For comparison, my MPGs are 43 for the 4x4 and 46 for the Trekking on circa 7,000 miles a year urban for the 4x4, and 3,000 miles a year urban for the Trekking.

I do recommend the leather steering wheel and winter packs as good value options.

Hi all,

Many thanks for all your helpful advice. Economy isn't the be all and end all and without doing the maths I would assume that any savings made via diesel will be outweighed by the extra £1500 premium over the TA.

I do around 10-12k miles a year and in fairness to the FL I've never had any DPF issues probably due to the regular longer runs it gets. Without doubt I will get the winter pack, auto climate and the leather steering wheel - am used to that in the FL.

I will probably have to PX my FL as selling it round here would be difficult. If buying new will a Fiat dealership match a deal from an online broker?

Look at this thread too:

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/427583-best-panda-cross-mj-ta.html

I live up a mountain near Llanddewi Brefi. Got my TA Cross last week. Kind of weird and wonderful engine.....I moved on to petrol from diesel cars for various reasons..so far love the little thing! MPG not worth testing I think until after 5k or so...

You can get discounted prices from the dealer, if you qualify (and ask).

There are two well known schemes.
Privilege (buying with PCP)
and
Affintiy (buying outright/self finance)

The savings can be very good, depending on model.
Recently, with Affinity you could save between 17% and 20% on a Panda and with Privilege get around £3750 deposit contribution on a Panda 4x4 or Trekking.

Here's a link to a Police federation site with details of savings, though the savings might be a little out of date as they change every quarter and I presume we're now in Q1 2016.
http://www.westmidspolfed.com/member-services/services/?/Fiat-Group/

To qualify you need to work/be a member of certain organisations, obviously police staff, NHS staff, BT staff and a few others.
The discounts also work for family members, so if your brother/sister etc qualify, so will you.
(Someone I work with arranged two cars for themselves and another two for family members and saved over 10K)

Don't worry if you don't seem to qualify as there is a cheap way in and that's by joining British Cycling, as they are sponsored by Fiat, you get the discounts too and it only costs £21 membership!

Another thing, you'll get the car you want, in the colour your want, with the toys you want, when some brokers won't be able to and only offer stock already at the dock side.

Oh, it's a TA everytime for me, sure they're a bit Grrr when you push it and mpg claims are hyterical, but they do bring a smile to your face every time you drive it!

jrkitching said:

I think that's one of your rare slips of the keyboard, deeyup .

And yes, I'd agree with what I think you meant to post; opting for petrol is a no-brainer with a 5 mile commute - you'll never get an oil burner up to temperature with that kind of usage and on political considerations alone, the future for passenger diesel cars has never looked so gloomy. Whatever the technical merits, I can see punitive tax penalties for diesel drivers in the not too distant future, especially for those living or working in big cities.

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Oh yes, missed the "NOT" before go diesel. :doh:

Just to clarify, no diesel, yes petrol!

Goudrons said:

Here's a link to a Police federation site with details of savings, though the savings might be a little out of date as they change every quarter and I presume we're now in Q1 2016.
http://www.westmidspolfed.com/member-services/services/?/Fiat-Group/

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We are in the new quarter, but Fiat always take up to 3 weeks to release the new offers.
Hopefully the link you gave will update in the next few days.

Just to 'baseline' the economy discussion (and why I personally cannot subscribe to the supposed benefits of running a diesel on the grounds of economy alone), it would take over 6 years* at your 11,000 miles/year to just recoup the extra purchase cost of the diesel over the petrol, even before you add in the other complications and annoyances of DPFs, extra tyre wear, worse handling, sounding like a taxi and having to walk around with smelly shoes the entire time....

OK, maybe I'm not a chip-fat fan, but I do think the groundswell of opinion in support of the TA for your replacement is well founded.

Welcome (hopefully) to our world of Panda - I don't doubt for one minute that you'll regret moving the FL on!

*: based on 11,000 miles/year, 43mpg TA, 53mpg MJ, £1.10 av price/litre for both fuels.

Nobody's mentioned resale values. Like all 4X4 'wagons', the Panda 4X4 has a good resale.


Percentage-wise it's probably one of the best, cash-wise (i.e. thousands) it's unequalled. You'd lose more on a Range Rover on the first day than the full cost of the Panda.

My other half is a paramedic so I would have to see if the Ambulance Authority is eligible although as an emergency services it should be. I'm into triathlon so joining British Cycling wouldn't be a problem for me!

From what folks are saying I think the TA is looking the best option....

deeyup said:

I'd go diesel as your 5 mile commute may not get the engine temp up to full, and that's asking for dpf trouble.

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?

Go do the TA - Cross if you can afford it via the Priv Scheme! The good lady has a Cross TA excellent - I run a Defender TD5 SWB 160000mls but still love the TA - may be close so if you want to try the TA on proper territory you'd be welcome!

I like the look of the Cross but is the extra premium of around £1700 worth it for the added off road capability? I would need the 4x4 to deal with snow, muddy lanes and the odd muddy field but there would be no serious off roading to be done and we have the 110 to do that if necessary. Not sure I can justify the extra cost just because of the looks!

We are Aberystwyth area if that is close to you?

The Cross doesn't have any better off-road ability compared to the 4x4. The increase in ground clearance as a result of a different tyre size is marginal. Approach and departure angles are slightly improved but for 99% of use doesn't make any difference. The major difference is hill descent control. I've used this once to descend an unstable mine track. Then again I've also travelled along the same track in the old Cross without hill descent control. I've never used it on-road.
The Cross comes as standard with climate control, leather steering wheel and possibly one or two other specs that might be options on the 4x4 but I doubt this makes up for the price difference.
It comes down to a personal choice and the deal you can make with the supplier.

Daveweim said:

I like the look of the Cross but is the extra premium of around £1700 worth it for the added off road capability? I would need the 4x4 to deal with snow, muddy lanes and the odd muddy field but there would be no serious off roading to be done and we have the 110 to do that if necessary. Not sure I can justify the extra cost just because of the looks!

We are Aberystwyth area if that is close to you?

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Yep, my decision for the Cross also included its looks (tonka toy maybe!). Aber is my nearest big town.....

triumph7 said:

?

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I know.

The idea was to use the FL for holidays, trips etc but we ended up using the 110 to fit dogs, bikes, kit etc in. The FL wasn't big enough!